On 26/10/2015 22:41, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: > In message <n0m5p6$bkv$2@dont-email.me>, Graeme Wall > <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> writes: >> On 26/10/2015 20:58, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: > [] >>> I'm not at all sure what sort of transport was available to the poor. >>> How would they undertake a large journey - not only the means of >>> transport (horse or on foot), but where they'd overnight (either mode of >>> transport - especially carrying all their goods and chattels, even if >>> they didn't have many - wouldn't cover many miles in a day) - isn't >>> clear to me. I'm _assuming_ stagecoach and the like was far beyond most >>> people. >> >> Walking for many of them, ox-cart for the lucky ones and those with >> large loads. Average speed of the latter would be 2mph if they were >> lucky. As for overnights, under a hedge or in a barn. Pilgrimage >> routes had shelters at appropriate intervals. There's one on the >> North Downs route to Canterbury that still exists near Maidstone. >> > So how did they feed themselves - let alone any animals - on a long > journey? Assuming the animals aren't cats and dogs they'd forage for themselves, as would their owners. Various religious establishments, and some secular ones, had a tradition of the travellers' dole whereby genuine travellers would get free food and water. The Hospice at St Cross, south of Winchester, still operates the system but you have to be on foot to qualify. Talking of animals, another way of lower classes meeting over great distances was the cattle/sheep droves taking animals to a big city. > A journey from, say, Norfolk to Northumberland would take > months at the above rate. (I have such in mine, a sudden widow with > about 9 children, but that was somewhere in 1882-1891, so probably > easier by then.) Got proper roads and railways by then so a lot easier. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail.

In message <n0namg$j32$2@dont-email.me>, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> writes: >On 26/10/2015 22:41, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: [poor people travelling long distances] >> So how did they feed themselves - let alone any animals - on a long >> journey? > >Assuming the animals aren't cats and dogs they'd forage for themselves, (I was thinking of horse, ox, or whatever they might be using to help them travel, rather than chattel animals such as livestock. Basically, analogous to fuel for a car today.) >as would their owners. Various religious establishments, and some >secular ones, had a tradition of the travellers' dole whereby genuine >travellers would get free food and water. The Hospice at St Cross, Were there enough of these establishments that a practically penniless person could actually make a long journey? >south of Winchester, still operates the system but you have to be on >foot to qualify. > >Talking of animals, another way of lower classes meeting over great >distances was the cattle/sheep droves taking animals to a big city. I'm thinking of greater distances than that: I assume the large markets some places were known for would have a limited "catchment radius". > >> A journey from, say, Norfolk to Northumberland would take >> months at the above rate. (I have such in mine, a sudden widow with >> about 9 children, but that was somewhere in 1882-1891, so probably >> easier by then.) > >Got proper roads and railways by then so a lot easier. > Yes, I thought that was probably a red herring. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf I am the person for whom 'one size fits all' never fits. - Chris McMillan in UMRA, 2011-11-12