On Tue, 2013-05-28 at 21:46 +0100, Roger Mills wrote: > Pity they didn't record the age at > death in those days! Yes they did! It just didn't start appearing in the index until 1866.

On Tue, 28 May 2013 20:19:36 +0100, "Piercefield" <Piercefield@btinternet.com> wrote: >Renia wrote, Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:14 PM > >>>> I recently saw the transcript of a Will in which (SS) >>>> was written after the "signature" >>>> Am I right in assuming that this is an abbreviation >>>> for Signature and Seal > >> It more likely stands for "signed and sealed". > >I though the correct phrase was "Signed, sealed and delivered" ? > That's for contracts rather than wills IMU.

On 28/05/2013 21:14, roy.stockdill@btinternet.com wrote: > From: brightside S9<address@replyto_is_not.invalid> > >> I (and a couple of distant relations) have struggled for many years >> trying to find the death of a Dinah Wool(l)ey. Born Dinah Lenton in >> 1831. >> >> She married Matthew Lemon Woolley at Gretton parish Northamptonshire >> on 31/10/1853 and had several children. >> Freereg will find that marriage with >> name - Matthew Lemon WOOLLEY (note the double L) >> parish - Gretton >> county - Northamptonshire. >> and GRO DEC 1853 LENTON Dinah Uppingham 7a 575 >> >> She can be found in 1861 census. >> >> Her last born child (AFAICT) can be found in Freebmd >> GRO JUN 1863 WOOLLEY Phoebe Lenton Uppingham 7a 279 >> (note the spelling of Phoebe and the double L). >> So 2nd qtr 1863 is the last indication that Dinah *is* still alive. >> >> The baptism of this last child, on 8/12/1868, can be found Freereg. >> name - Phebe WOOLEY (note the spelling of Phebe and the single L). >> parish - Gretton >> county - Northamptonshire >> >> This baptism records the parents as Dinah and Matthew. There is no >> note to say that Dinah is deceased ( I have the microfiche for >> Gretton parish BMDs and there is no margin note). So DEC 1868 is the >> last indication that Dinah *may* still be alive. >> >> The next piece of information I have is that Matthew Lemon Woo(l)ley >> remarries in 1870 to a Caroline INGRAM. >> GRO SEP 1870 INGRAM Caroline Uppingham 7a 451 >> and the marriage can be found in Freereg >> name - Matthew Lemon WOOLEY (note the single L) >> parish - Gretton >> county - Northamptonshire >> Here the grooms condition is *Widower*. >> >> So this tells me that Dinah is no *longer* alive. >> >> The mariages and births are all in a small village of Gretton and that >> seems to me to rule out anything suspicious. However I cannot find >> any information about Dinah Wool(l)ey's death or a burial. >> >> Can anyone find out when Dinah WOOL(L)ey died? Any clues would be >> welcome. Thanks. >> >> -- >> brightside S9> > > Have you seen that there is a death in the GRO death indexes (FreeBMD and > Findmypast) in the June quarter of 1865 at Peterborough of a WOOLLEY Female > (unnamed) , vol 3b page 143? Could it just possibly be that this was your > Dinah? > > Gretton is not far from Peterborough and Peterborough registration district > probably came fairly close to Gretton. The fact that this female who died was > unnamed suggests she may have died either in hospital or a workhouse and nobody > knew her full name. Perhaps she had left her husband? > > I note her daughter Phoebe was born in 1863 but not baptised until 1868. The > fact that the baptismal record didn't say her mother was deceased is not proof > that she wasn't. > > I think I might just be tempted to get that death certificate but it's up to > you. > > It's possible. I've tended to think of "unamed" as referring to a new baby who hadn't been given a name. Pity they didn't record the age at death in those days! Are there any statistics which show what proportion of "unnameds" are *not* young babies? -- Cheers, Roger ____________ Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked.

From: brightside S9 <address@replyto_is_not.invalid> > I (and a couple of distant relations) have struggled for many years > trying to find the death of a Dinah Wool(l)ey. Born Dinah Lenton in > 1831. > > She married Matthew Lemon Woolley at Gretton parish Northamptonshire > on 31/10/1853 and had several children. > Freereg will find that marriage with > name - Matthew Lemon WOOLLEY (note the double L) > parish - Gretton > county - Northamptonshire. > and GRO DEC 1853 LENTON Dinah Uppingham 7a 575 > > She can be found in 1861 census. > > Her last born child (AFAICT) can be found in Freebmd > GRO JUN 1863 WOOLLEY Phoebe Lenton Uppingham 7a 279 > (note the spelling of Phoebe and the double L). > So 2nd qtr 1863 is the last indication that Dinah *is* still alive. > > The baptism of this last child, on 8/12/1868, can be found Freereg. > name - Phebe WOOLEY (note the spelling of Phebe and the single L). > parish - Gretton > county - Northamptonshire > > This baptism records the parents as Dinah and Matthew. There is no > note to say that Dinah is deceased ( I have the microfiche for > Gretton parish BMDs and there is no margin note). So DEC 1868 is the > last indication that Dinah *may* still be alive. > > The next piece of information I have is that Matthew Lemon Woo(l)ley > remarries in 1870 to a Caroline INGRAM. > GRO SEP 1870 INGRAM Caroline Uppingham 7a 451 > and the marriage can be found in Freereg > name - Matthew Lemon WOOLEY (note the single L) > parish - Gretton > county - Northamptonshire > Here the grooms condition is *Widower*. > > So this tells me that Dinah is no *longer* alive. > > The mariages and births are all in a small village of Gretton and that > seems to me to rule out anything suspicious. However I cannot find > any information about Dinah Wool(l)ey's death or a burial. > > Can anyone find out when Dinah WOOL(L)ey died? Any clues would be > welcome. Thanks. > > -- > brightside S9> Have you seen that there is a death in the GRO death indexes (FreeBMD and Findmypast) in the June quarter of 1865 at Peterborough of a WOOLLEY Female (unnamed) , vol 3b page 143? Could it just possibly be that this was your Dinah? Gretton is not far from Peterborough and Peterborough registration district probably came fairly close to Gretton. The fact that this female who died was unnamed suggests she may have died either in hospital or a workhouse and nobody knew her full name. Perhaps she had left her husband? I note her daughter Phoebe was born in 1863 but not baptised until 1868. The fact that the baptismal record didn't say her mother was deceased is not proof that she wasn't. I think I might just be tempted to get that death certificate but it's up to you. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Renia wrote, Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:14 PM >>> I recently saw the transcript of a Will in which (SS) >>> was written after the "signature" >>> Am I right in assuming that this is an abbreviation >>> for Signature and Seal > It more likely stands for "signed and sealed". I though the correct phrase was "Signed, sealed and delivered" ?

Another new family history forum has gone live today. http://genealogy-specialists.com/ It seems slightly different from most forums and hopefully will develop into a useful research tool Cheers Guy

On 28/05/2013 16:38, johnfhhgen wrote: > Are you sure it is not L.S.? > L.S. (sometimes enclosed in a circle) was/is the abbreviation for Locus > Sigilli, the place of the seal, used in pre-written/pre-printed > originals to indicate where the seal was to be placed, and in copies to > indicate where it had been placed. You're right! It's not actually written in a circle but enclosed between slashes. Looking at it again I realised the two letters were very similar but not identical and I wouldn't have thought the first letter was an L, but fortunately the testator lived in West Lulworth so I was able to compare the letter with the first letter of Lulworth and it is indeed identical. Thank you. -- Jenny M Benson

On 27/05/2013 22:29, Roger Mills wrote: > On 27/05/2013 21:09, brightside S9 wrote: >> I (and a couple of distant relations) have struggled for many years >> trying to find the death of a Dinah Wool(l)ey. Born Dinah Lenton in >> 1831. >> >> She married Matthew Lemon Woolley at Gretton parish Northamptonshire >> on 31/10/1853 and had several children. >> Freereg will find that marriage with >> name - Matthew Lemon WOOLLEY (note the double L) >> parish - Gretton >> county - Northamptonshire. >> and GRO DEC 1853 LENTON Dinah Uppingham 7a 575 >> >> She can be found in 1861 census. >> >> Her last born child (AFAICT) can be found in Freebmd >> GRO JUN 1863 WOOLLEY Phoebe Lenton Uppingham 7a 279 >> (note the spelling of Phoebe and the double L). >> So 2nd qtr 1863 is the last indication that Dinah *is* still alive. >> >> The baptism of this last child, on 8/12/1868, can be found Freereg. >> name - Phebe WOOLEY (note the spelling of Phebe and the single L). >> parish - Gretton >> county - Northamptonshire >> >> This baptism records the parents as Dinah and Matthew. There is no >> note to say that Dinah is deceased ( I have the microfiche for >> Gretton parish BMDs and there is no margin note). So DEC 1868 is the >> last indication that Dinah *may* still be alive. >> >> The next piece of information I have is that Matthew Lemon Woo(l)ley >> remarries in 1870 to a Caroline INGRAM. >> GRO SEP 1870 INGRAM Caroline Uppingham 7a 451 >> and the marriage can be found in Freereg >> name - Matthew Lemon WOOLEY (note the single L) >> parish - Gretton >> county - Northamptonshire >> Here the grooms condition is *Widower*. >> >> So this tells me that Dinah is no *longer* alive. >> >> The mariages and births are all in a small village of Gretton and that >> seems to me to rule out anything suspicious. However I cannot find >> any information about Dinah Wool(l)ey's death or a burial. >> >> Can anyone find out when Dinah WOOL(L)ey died? Any clues would be >> welcome. Thanks. >> > > How about this for a theory . . . > > She died in childbirth when Phoebe was born - which may explain the long > delay before the child was baptised. > > The GRO cocked up transcribing the local records, and recorded the death > as: > WADDS, Dinah Ann Uppingham Apr-May-Jun 1863 7A/191 > > May not be right, but it's the best I can do at this time of night. [I > haven't checked whether there was a real Dinah Wadds who may have died > then!] On further checking, it appears that there *was* a real Dinah Ann Wadds, who was born in the first quarter of 1863, and died in the second quarter, poor thing! So bang goes my query. Nevertheless, your Dinah Woolley *must* have died at some time or other - she'd be pretty old if she were still alive today! So, unless she died in another country not covered by UK records, the chances are that her name has been mis-transcribed in some way - so it's worth trying to think of as many ways as possible in which Woolley could be misconstrued - not just the obvious variants which FindMyPast etc. look for. The other possibility is that she married again - probably bigamously if Matthew was still around - and was using a different surname when she died. -- Cheers, Roger ____________ Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked.

From: brightside S9 <address@replyto_is_not.invalid> > I (and a couple of distant relations) have struggled for many years > trying to find the death of a Dinah Wool(l)ey. Born Dinah Lenton in > 1831. > > She married Matthew Lemon Woolley at Gretton parish Northamptonshire > on 31/10/1853 and had several children. > Freereg will find that marriage with > name - Matthew Lemon WOOLLEY (note the double L) > parish - Gretton > county - Northamptonshire. > and GRO DEC 1853 LENTON Dinah Uppingham 7a 575 > > She can be found in 1861 census. > > Her last born child (AFAICT) can be found in Freebmd > GRO JUN 1863 WOOLLEY Phoebe Lenton Uppingham 7a 279 > (note the spelling of Phoebe and the double L). > So 2nd qtr 1863 is the last indication that Dinah *is* still alive. > > The baptism of this last child, on 8/12/1868, can be found Freereg. > name - Phebe WOOLEY (note the spelling of Phebe and the single L). > parish - Gretton > county - Northamptonshire > > This baptism records the parents as Dinah and Matthew. There is no > note to say that Dinah is deceased ( I have the microfiche for > Gretton parish BMDs and there is no margin note). So DEC 1868 is the > last indication that Dinah *may* still be alive. > > The next piece of information I have is that Matthew Lemon Woo(l)ley > remarries in 1870 to a Caroline INGRAM. > GRO SEP 1870 INGRAM Caroline Uppingham 7a 451 > and the marriage can be found in Freereg > name - Matthew Lemon WOOLEY (note the single L) > parish - Gretton > county - Northamptonshire > Here the grooms condition is *Widower*. > > So this tells me that Dinah is no *longer* alive. > > The mariages and births are all in a small village of Gretton and that > seems to me to rule out anything suspicious. However I cannot find > any information about Dinah Wool(l)ey's death or a burial. > > Can anyone find out when Dinah WOOL(L)ey died? Any clues would be > welcome. Thanks.> I will have a look and see if I can turn anything up when I have a moment, however could I respectfully point out that the fact that Matthew said he was a widower when he married again does NOT necessarily mean that he was!!! I have personally done detailed research on a couple of cases of bigamy, one of whom was a great-grandmother of my wife and the other the great-grandfather of none other than Dame Judi Dench, George Joseph Dench, a former customs officer. He left his wife and half a dozen children in Weymouth and shacked up with a young widow in south London, marrying her in 1887. I got the certificate and it said he was a widower - but he wasn't because his legal wife was still alive on the censuses of 1891-1911. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

"Charles Ellson" <ce11son@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:a5k5q8d8irlpknj8tt47hevpsnh88l5s4q@4ax.com... > On Sun, 26 May 2013 20:52:20 +0200, john > <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr> wrote: > >>On 26/05/2013 19:34, Tony Proctor wrote: >>> I picked up a copy of an old "Bacon's New Large Print Map of London and >>> Suburbs" from a second-hand book shop the other day. The map is in poor >>> condition but I intend to try and rescue as much as I can of it. >>> >>> There is no visible date printed anywhere so I need a little help or >>> advice >>> on dating it. There is a "1900" pencilled on one of the remaining index >>> pages but I'm sceptical of that - it must be a guess at best. >>> >>> Tony Proctor >>> >>> >> >>A quick online search will give you the dates of various versions. >>There is full scanned version online http://nla.gov.au/nla.map-rm2478 >>for comparison which might help? >>The advertisements may contain dates/prices which could vary with >>editions so it might be worth checking those. >> > Some of the railway stations might also give a clue if you can dig out > information on what might have been under construction at the time. > The Central London Railway had opened between Bank and Shepherds Bush > in 1900, IIRC the depot at Wood Lane should have been hard to miss by > mapmakers from 1895 onward. The "New Line" from Camden to Watford > Junction opened in sections from about 1910-1912 so if e.g. Kensal > Green and Harlesden (NOT the one in Gladstone Park) stations aren't > there then the book should be before those years. Thanks Charles. The Shepherds-Bush to Bank line is clearly visible. I'm not sure about the Camden one though. There's a Great Northern Railway line goes from Camden and eventually disappears off my map at Highgate but it doesn't look very direct, or very new. Tony Proctor

On 27/05/2013 22:09, brightside S9 wrote: > I (and a couple of distant relations) have struggled for many years > trying to find the death of a Dinah Wool(l)ey. Born Dinah Lenton in > 1831. > > She married Matthew Lemon Woolley at Gretton parish Northamptonshire > on 31/10/1853 and had several children. > Freereg will find that marriage with > name - Matthew Lemon WOOLLEY (note the double L) > parish - Gretton > county - Northamptonshire. > and GRO DEC 1853 LENTON Dinah Uppingham 7a 575 > > She can be found in 1861 census. > > Her last born child (AFAICT) can be found in Freebmd > GRO JUN 1863 WOOLLEY Phoebe Lenton Uppingham 7a 279 > (note the spelling of Phoebe and the double L). > So 2nd qtr 1863 is the last indication that Dinah *is* still alive. > > The baptism of this last child, on 8/12/1868, can be found Freereg. > name - Phebe WOOLEY (note the spelling of Phebe and the single L). > parish - Gretton > county - Northamptonshire > > This baptism records the parents as Dinah and Matthew. There is no > note to say that Dinah is deceased ( I have the microfiche for > Gretton parish BMDs and there is no margin note). So DEC 1868 is the > last indication that Dinah *may* still be alive. > > The next piece of information I have is that Matthew Lemon Woo(l)ley > remarries in 1870 to a Caroline INGRAM. > GRO SEP 1870 INGRAM Caroline Uppingham 7a 451 > and the marriage can be found in Freereg > name - Matthew Lemon WOOLEY (note the single L) > parish - Gretton > county - Northamptonshire > Here the grooms condition is *Widower*. > > So this tells me that Dinah is no *longer* alive. > > The mariages and births are all in a small village of Gretton and that > seems to me to rule out anything suspicious. However I cannot find > any information about Dinah Wool(l)ey's death or a burial. > > Can anyone find out when Dinah WOOL(L)ey died? Any clues would be > welcome. Thanks. > According to IGI https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NPGQ-9FM George Wooley, parents Matthew and Dinah, was christened at the same time as Phoebe on 8 Dec 1868 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NPGQ-9FM Not sure when he was born?

On 28/05/2013 11:05 AM, Steve Hayes wrote: > On Mon, 27 May 2013 15:32:26 +0100, Jenny M Benson <nemonews@hotmail.co.uk> > wrote: > I recently saw the transcript of a Will in which (SS) was written after > the "signature" and I have just now seen the same in a Will downloaded > >from TNA. >> Am I right in assuming that this is an abbreviation for Signature and >> Seal to indicate that where the name of the Will-maker has been written >> he/she did in fact sign and mark with his/her seal? > If it was the signature of the testator, then probably. > > If not, there is just a possibility that it could stand for "surviving > spouse". Hello Jenny, Forgive my "piggy-backing" on Steve's reply, but original has not yet reached the list. Are you sure it is not L.S.? L.S. (sometimes enclosed in a circle) was/is the abbreviation for Locus Sigilli, the place of the seal, used in pre-written/pre-printed originals to indicate where the seal was to be placed, and in copies to indicate where it had been placed. Kind Regards, John Henley.

On 28/05/2013 11:05, Steve Hayes wrote: > On Mon, 27 May 2013 15:32:26 +0100, Jenny M Benson <nemonews@hotmail.co.uk> > wrote: > >> I recently saw the transcript of a Will in which (SS) was written after >> the "signature" and I have just now seen the same in a Will downloaded >>from TNA. >> >> Am I right in assuming that this is an abbreviation for Signature and >> Seal to indicate that where the name of the Will-maker has been written >> he/she did in fact sign and mark with his/her seal? > > If it was the signature of the testator, then probably. > > If not, there is just a possibility that it could stand for "surviving > spouse". Doubtful. It more likely stands for "signed and sealed".

On Mon, 27 May 2013 15:32:26 +0100, Jenny M Benson <nemonews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >I recently saw the transcript of a Will in which (SS) was written after >the "signature" and I have just now seen the same in a Will downloaded >from TNA. > >Am I right in assuming that this is an abbreviation for Signature and >Seal to indicate that where the name of the Will-maker has been written >he/she did in fact sign and mark with his/her seal? If it was the signature of the testator, then probably. If not, there is just a possibility that it could stand for "surviving spouse". -- Steve Hayes Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/ http://hayesgreene.blogspot.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/afgen/

On 27/05/2013 21:09, brightside S9 wrote: > I (and a couple of distant relations) have struggled for many years > trying to find the death of a Dinah Wool(l)ey. Born Dinah Lenton in > 1831. > > She married Matthew Lemon Woolley at Gretton parish Northamptonshire > on 31/10/1853 and had several children. > Freereg will find that marriage with > name - Matthew Lemon WOOLLEY (note the double L) > parish - Gretton > county - Northamptonshire. > and GRO DEC 1853 LENTON Dinah Uppingham 7a 575 > > She can be found in 1861 census. > > Her last born child (AFAICT) can be found in Freebmd > GRO JUN 1863 WOOLLEY Phoebe Lenton Uppingham 7a 279 > (note the spelling of Phoebe and the double L). > So 2nd qtr 1863 is the last indication that Dinah *is* still alive. > > The baptism of this last child, on 8/12/1868, can be found Freereg. > name - Phebe WOOLEY (note the spelling of Phebe and the single L). > parish - Gretton > county - Northamptonshire > > This baptism records the parents as Dinah and Matthew. There is no > note to say that Dinah is deceased ( I have the microfiche for > Gretton parish BMDs and there is no margin note). So DEC 1868 is the > last indication that Dinah *may* still be alive. > > The next piece of information I have is that Matthew Lemon Woo(l)ley > remarries in 1870 to a Caroline INGRAM. > GRO SEP 1870 INGRAM Caroline Uppingham 7a 451 > and the marriage can be found in Freereg > name - Matthew Lemon WOOLEY (note the single L) > parish - Gretton > county - Northamptonshire > Here the grooms condition is *Widower*. > > So this tells me that Dinah is no *longer* alive. > > The mariages and births are all in a small village of Gretton and that > seems to me to rule out anything suspicious. However I cannot find > any information about Dinah Wool(l)ey's death or a burial. > > Can anyone find out when Dinah WOOL(L)ey died? Any clues would be > welcome. Thanks. > How about this for a theory . . . She died in childbirth when Phoebe was born - which may explain the long delay before the child was baptised. The GRO cocked up transcribing the local records, and recorded the death as: WADDS, Dinah Ann Uppingham Apr-May-Jun 1863 7A/191 May not be right, but it's the best I can do at this time of night. [I haven't checked whether there was a real Dinah Wadds who may have died then!] -- Cheers, Roger ____________ Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked.

If you go to http://mapco.net/london.htm put Bacon in your Find facility you will find a number of Maps with his name that might match the one you bought. Regards, Kate (Sydney, Australia) "Tony Proctor" wrote in message news:knth3t$dq0$1@speranza.aioe.org... I picked up a copy of an old "Bacon's New Large Print Map of London and Suburbs" from a second-hand book shop the other day. The map is in poor condition but I intend to try and rescue as much as I can of it. There is no visible date printed anywhere so I need a little help or advice on dating it. There is a "1900" pencilled on one of the remaining index pages but I'm sceptical of that - it must be a guess at best. Tony Proctor

I recently saw the transcript of a Will in which (SS) was written after the "signature" and I have just now seen the same in a Will downloaded from TNA. Am I right in assuming that this is an abbreviation for Signature and Seal to indicate that where the name of the Will-maker has been written he/she did in fact sign and mark with his/her seal? -- Jenny M Benson

On Sun, 26 May 2013 20:52:20 +0200, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr> wrote: >On 26/05/2013 19:34, Tony Proctor wrote: >> I picked up a copy of an old "Bacon's New Large Print Map of London and >> Suburbs" from a second-hand book shop the other day. The map is in poor >> condition but I intend to try and rescue as much as I can of it. >> >> There is no visible date printed anywhere so I need a little help or advice >> on dating it. There is a "1900" pencilled on one of the remaining index >> pages but I'm sceptical of that - it must be a guess at best. >> >> Tony Proctor >> >> > >A quick online search will give you the dates of various versions. >There is full scanned version online http://nla.gov.au/nla.map-rm2478 >for comparison which might help? >The advertisements may contain dates/prices which could vary with >editions so it might be worth checking those. > Some of the railway stations might also give a clue if you can dig out information on what might have been under construction at the time. The Central London Railway had opened between Bank and Shepherds Bush in 1900, IIRC the depot at Wood Lane should have been hard to miss by mapmakers from 1895 onward. The "New Line" from Camden to Watford Junction opened in sections from about 1910-1912 so if e.g. Kensal Green and Harlesden (NOT the one in Gladstone Park) stations aren't there then the book should be before those years.

On 26/05/2013 19:34, Tony Proctor wrote: > I picked up a copy of an old "Bacon's New Large Print Map of London and > Suburbs" from a second-hand book shop the other day. The map is in poor > condition but I intend to try and rescue as much as I can of it. > > There is no visible date printed anywhere so I need a little help or advice > on dating it. There is a "1900" pencilled on one of the remaining index > pages but I'm sceptical of that - it must be a guess at best. > > Tony Proctor > > A quick online search will give you the dates of various versions. There is full scanned version online http://nla.gov.au/nla.map-rm2478 for comparison which might help? The advertisements may contain dates/prices which could vary with editions so it might be worth checking those.

On 26/05/2013 09:59, Piercefield wrote: > Phil C. wrote, Friday, May 24, 2013 4:15 PM > >> They are both from GRO. I notice that the >> number in far left hand column are different - >> 152 and 172. Same registrar for both. > > What did the GRO have to say about them ? > I've just enquired, out of interest. It seems difficult to enquire of them, though, without it seeming like a complaint. I'm just intrigued. -- Phil C.