On 2013/06/18 09:45, cbell4100@gmail.com wrote: > 1. MARY1 GAGER was born Bet. 1761 - 1762 in Lynn, Norfolk, England, and died > January 08, 1830 in Sydney, N.S.W. Australia. She married JOSEPH BEVITT > September 29, 1794 in St. Martin/Fields, Westminster, London, England. He > was born Bet. 1761 - 1771 in England, and died Bet. 1807 - 1816 in Middlesex > area, England. FreeREG has her baptism record which also shows her date of birth and parents. St Margarets, Kings Lynn Mary GAGER dob 07 Aug 1772 bap 06 Dec 1772 Parents: Richard & Susan GAGER So... where does your year of 1762 come from? -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

<eve@varneys.org.uk> wrote: > > I was looking for an Ann Simonite or Simmonite, born ca 1824, in the > > 1841 census. One appears on HO107 piece 1329 folio 1/7 page 7. > > > > Her occupation is listed as F S - and she is not the only one so > > described. All are in their teens (well, one is 20). > > > > Any ideas on what this means? Family Servant, perhaps? > > Female servant. This is one of the standard abbreviations which > enumerators were required to use, some of the the others being > MS - male servant > Asst - assistant > Ag lab -agricultural labourer > IND - of Independent means > Paup - pauper (drawing money from Poor Relief) > Fwk - Frame work knitter > J -journeyman (craftsman having completed an apprenticeship) > -Mkr - maker > Pens - Pensioner (Army, Navy, civil service etc, not OAP) > HP - Half Pay (officer, on reserve) > EVE Thank you. I've made a note... -- Please reply to john at yclept dot wanadoo dot co dot uk.

Hi Lindy, I am from the line of Mary Ann Bevitt. I've enclosed some info on her and her descendants: Descendants of Mary Gager Generation No. 1 1. MARY1 GAGER was born Bet. 1761 - 1762 in Lynn, Norfolk, England, and died January 08, 1830 in Sydney, N.S.W. Australia. She married JOSEPH BEVITT September 29, 1794 in St. Martin/Fields, Westminster, London, England. He was born Bet. 1761 - 1771 in England, and died Bet. 1807 - 1816 in Middlesex area, England. Notes for MARY GAGER: Mary Gager Convict. B Between 1761 - 1762 D 8/1/1830 M 29/9/1794 Joseph Bevitt Mary was from Lynn in Norfolk, and stood just 4'7" tall, she had a fair complexion, and hazel eyes. She may have been a widow when she married Joseph Bevitt as she was only 33 yrs old. The only Gager marriage found in the right time frame is of a William Gager marrying a Mary MEDCALF on 24/10/1784 at All Saints, Sudbury, Suffolk. Sudbury is 85 km from Kings Lynn. There are other Mary Medcalfs born in the right time frame, but none from Lynn or Kings Lynn. Mary 'Beverton' as she was called was tried at the Middlesex Gaol Delivery (Old Bailey) on 20/4/1814, for being in possession of forged money and sentenced to 14 yrs. Mary was described as a servant, 56 yrs old. On embarking on the 'Lord Melville' (1) in 1816 she was listed as a widow accompanied by her four children. Mary Ann, Sarah, Isabella and Joseph. For the voyage she was provided with 1 spare jacket or gown, 1 spare petticoat, 2 spare shifts, 2 spare handkerchiefs, 2 spare pairs of stockings and 2 spare pairs of shoes. Mary arrived on 24/2/1817. The 1822 Census of NSW shows Mary as having obtained her Ticket of Leave,(No.1176), being single, a midwife and residing in Yorke St, Sydney. Her daughter Bella, lived with her. The house was a little full however with five lodgers. Her daughter Mary had recently married a Benjamin Goddard at Parramatta and they lived in Sydney. In 1825 Mary was recorded as a nurse in Sydney. By 1828, four lodgers, all shoemakers, were living with Mary at York St and Mary was a midwife. She would certainly never have been short of footwear. In April of 1828 Mary received her Certificate of Freedom (number 28/351). This stated her year of birth as 1761, and as a distinguishing feature " a wart on her nose". Mary junior, now Mary Goddard, was a mother to 5yr old Benjamin, and lived with her husband in Kent St., just a stone's throw from Mum. Eventually the Goddard's had 11 children. Isabella and her husband John Dodd were "up the road and round the corner" at 6 O'Connell St, Sydney. Mary met her maker on the 12th January, 1830, while still doing her duty as one of the midwives of the Colony. An extract, taken from "The Australian" of 13.1.1830, stated; " An inquest was convened at the Flower Pot, York St, on Saturday last, on the body of Mrs. Bevitt, midwife, who died suddenly during the evening previously, after having got out of bed to attend a patient. Major Smeatham presiding, the jury returned a verdict of - "death by the visitation of God". (Age given as 68). . Three references to Mary's work have been found: 1. p122 "The Hawkesbury Story" by Valerie Ross. 2. 1828 Census 3. An inquest held 17.4.1824 re illegal burial of stillborn female child in the Old Burying Ground - child of Sarah & Edward Hutton. More About MARY GAGER: Burial: Sydney, N.S.W. Australia Notes for JOSEPH BEVITT: All that is known about Joseph is that it appears he never emigrated and that he could at least write his name, as he signed at his marriage. Joseph appears to have died prior to 1816 as his wife Mary Bevitt's embarkation status of the same year gives her Marital status as WIDOW. Children of MARY GAGER and JOSEPH BEVITT are: i. MARY ANN2 BEVITT, b. 1795, England; d. Bef. October 22, 1802, England. Notes for MARY ANN BEVITT: More About MARY ANN BEVITT: Christening: January 01, 1795, St. Martins in the Fields, London ii. SARAH BEVITT, b. 1800, London, England; d. Unknown, Australia. Notes for SARAH BEVITT: Arrived with mother Mary on "Lord Melville" 1817. Thackeray Wetherall, Master of the "Lord Melville" lists a Sarah Bevitt about 16. To date no death or marriage found. Not in 1822 Muster. Not in 1828 Census, there is no Sarah of the right age found having arrived on the "Lord Melville" in the 1828 Census. Possibilities: Went back to England? A remote possibility that a Sarah Turner who married John Goddard (Marquis of Wellington, 1815) in mid-1817 at Sydney could be her. The reason for this suspicion is because of who her sister Mary married, (Benjamin Goddard). More About SARAH BEVITT: Christening: May 04, 1800, St. Marys, Lambeth, London 2. iii. MARY ANN BEVITT, b. 1802, London, England. 3. iv. ISABELLA BEVITT, b. Abt. 1801, England; d. April 29, 1860, Gouangera (Goangra), N.S.W. Australia. 4. v. JOSEPH BEVITT, b. Abt. 1801, Westminster, England; d. 1845, Entry No.589 Vol.30. NSW.. Generation No. 2 2. MARY ANN2 BEVITT (MARY1 GAGER) was born 1802 in London, England. She married BENJAMIN GODDARD April 04, 1822 in St. Johns. Parramatta, N.S.W. Australia. Notes for MARY ANN BEVITT: More About MARY ANN BEVITT: Christening: October 04, 1802, St. Martins in the Fields, London Child of MARY BEVITT and BENJAMIN GODDARD is: i. BENJAMIN3 GODDARD. 3. ISABELLA2 BEVITT (MARY1 GAGER) was born Abt. 1801 in England, and died April 29, 1860 in Gouangera (Goangra), N.S.W. Australia. She married JOHN DODD May 05, 1823 in St. Philip's Church, Sydney, N.S.W. Australia, son of ? DODD. He was born Abt. 1798 in Northumberland, England, and died July 09, 1880 in Windsor, N.S.W. Australia. Notes for ISABELLA BEVITT: Isabella Bevitt. Came Free Baptized 4/11/1804 at St. Martins in the Field, Westminster. D 29/4/1860 M 5/5/1823 John DODD Isabella arrived in Port Jackson on the 24th February, 1817, at the age of approximately 10 years with her convict mother Mary (Gager) Bevitt and her sisters Mary Ann and Sarah, and her brother Joseph, on board the transport "Lord Melville". Her father, Joseph Bevitt appears to have died prior to 1817. The 1822 Muster shows Isabella, known as Bella, living with her mother Mary at Yorke St. Sydney. She was employed by William Walker Esq., a merchant of Sydney, who had arrived free. She married John Dodd ( Baring, 1819, Life) on the 5th May, 1823 at St. Philips C of E in Sydney, after obtaining permission in April to marry him. The 1828 census describes her as a householder, aged 21, living at 6 O'Connell St, Sydney. She had quite a family going with Mary Ann 5, Sarah 3 and Elizabeth only 4 months old. Her husband John, was still in government servitude and working as a carpenter. Isabella and John moved about often, and their 13 children in total were born in Sydney, Windsor, Bourke, Richmond, Rylestone, etc. Isabella died from "general debility" on the 29th of April, 1860, her age on her gravestone given as 59 yrs. She was buried by her husband John in a "lone grave" on the banks of the Namoi River between Come by Chance and Goangera, her death being registered at Wee Waa. There is a headstone to mark her last resting place, erected by her daughter Mrs Henry (Caroline) Keys. "To Perpetuate the Memory of One Kind Mother". John and Isabella's third child Elizabeth (B30/8/1828), married Hugh Lord McKay on the 27th of January, 1855 and thus became part of our ancestral family. More About ISABELLA BEVITT: Burial: April 30, 1860, Nr. Namoi River, Goangra, N.S.W. Australia Christening: November 04, 1804, St. Martins in the Fields, London Notes for JOHN DODD: John Dodd Native of Northumberland Born: Circa 1798 Died: 9/7/1880 Married: 5th May, 1823. Isabella Bivet (Bevit) John Dodd, a "house carpenter", was sentenced to life for burglary on 1/8/1818 at Newcastle-on-Tyne, Northumberland. He was 21 years old, 5'8" tall, with a ruddy complexion, dark hair and eyes. He arrived in Sydney 26/6/1819 with 289 other convicts on the ship "Baring (2)" sailing from Sheerness, on 27/1/1819 - the passage took 150 days. In September, 1821, John was employed at the New Lumber Yard in Sydney and was victualled from H.M. Magazines. 1822 through to 1823, John worked for Major George Druitt. John applied for permission to post Marriage banns 10/4/1823 (Reel 1034) Col Sec in letters. Major Druitt consenting to John being assigned to his wife-to-be, Isabella. He married Isabella Bivet, (she came free on the "Lord Melville" on 24/2/1817, with her mother Mary) on 5.5.1823 at St Philips C of E, Sydney. In April, 1824, John was assigned a convict mechanic to help him with his work. In the NSW 1828 Census John and Isabella are shown as married with 3 children, Mary Ann aged 5, Sarah aged 3, and Elizabeth 4 months. They were living at O'Connell St, Sydney. John's occupation is given as a carpenter, P, and still a convict aged 22. This is, in all probability an error as John would have been nearer 30 yrs by this time. Between the birth of Elizabeth and the next child, Emma, the Dodds moved to South Creek, Windsor. Then following the birth of Emma, and before the birth of John, they moved to Walgett. In all, there were 13 children born to Isabella and John. Sometime after the death of Isabella, John moved back to Windsor where he died. Information supplied by another Dodd researcher suggests John Dodd was involved in the building of Berrima Gaol. He was engaged as a junior partner or foreman of a building Company. The original plans for the Gaol were lost at sea in a shipwreck. The 2nd plans were destroyed in a bush fire near Wilberforce, NSW. The Gaol was commenced in May 1834 and was completed in 1839. The whole work was carried out by convicts. There is no record of John Dodd's name in the Gaol records. John Dodd died on 9/7/1880 aged 82 and was buried at St. Matthews Cemetery, Windsor. His headstone was recently restored by descendants. John and Isabella's 4th child, Elizabeth, born 30/8/1828 married Hugh McKay 27/1/1855 and thus became part of our ancestral family. More About JOHN DODD: Burial: St. Matthews C/E Cemetery, Windsor, N.S.W. Australia Marriage Reg. No.: 3109 Vol. 3 Occupation: Carpenter Children of ISABELLA BEVITT and JOHN DODD are: i. MARY ANN3 DODD, b. 1824. ii. SARAH DODD, b. 1826; m. HENRY S. CLARKE, 1851. Notes for SARAH DODD: Witnesses at her marriage were Emma Jasper and Joseph Jasper (Harper). Minister was G. King. Fiche pg 1433, entry 7742, vol. 1, Emma was Sarah's sister, Emma Dodds. iii. JOHN DODD, b. 1827; d. 1827. 5. iv. ELIZABETH DODD, b. August 30, 1828, Sydney, N.S.W. Australia; d. July 05, 1910, N.S.W.. v. EMMA DODD, b. 1830; m. JOSEPH JASPER, 1849. vi. JOHN DODD, b. Abt. 1836. Notes for JOHN DODD: In 1876 in the application for the establishment of a public school at Walgett, John Dodd has listed his children to attend the school. Louisa Dodds, aged 14. Would make her birth circa 1862 John Dodds, aged 10. Would make his birth circa 1866 Jeremiah Dodds, aged 5. Would make his birth circa 1871 Then further down the list is - Emily Dodds, aged 7. Would make her birth circa 1869. John Dodd and his wife Emma Mason had the address of Mercadool Hotel at death. From 1890-98 William Dodd held the licence, John Dodd held it is 1898. In July 1901 the licence was taken over by Alfred Wilson. vii. JEREMIAH DODD, b. 1838. Notes for JEREMIAH DODD: Birth in 1838 gives father as Jeremiah, mother as Isabella. This could be wrong. viii. ISABELLA ELIZABETH DODD, b. 1841. ix. DAVID DODDS, b. 1842. x. WILLIAM DODD, b. 1843. Notes for WILLIAM DODD: Birth date could be wrong. >From Aldine Centennial History of NSW Vol. 2: "William Dodd born in Richmond. in 1843 and there received his education, removing to Walgett in 1858, here he became the manager of the stations belonging to Mr. Fitzpatrick with whom he remained ten years. At the end of this period he removed to Walgett, since which time he has followed the occupation of a stock drover." Drover 1889. Became Hotel keeper 1896 Exchange Hotel ( maybe before this, records not available), corner Fox & Warrena Sts, Walgett. Was still licensee (owner?) when in December 1919 the Exchange Hotel was destroyed by fire, it was not rebuilt. In June 1929 Mr. A. Brigg, dentist, bought the land. xi. JANE DODD, b. 1845. Notes for JANE DODD: Death Cert. entry # 601, vol. 31 xii. JOSEPH DODD, b. 1848. Notes for JOSEPH DODD: Details from death cert. of daughter Ada Mary Betteridge. Occupation then was drover. xiii. CAROLINE DODD, b. Unknown. Notes for CAROLINE DODD: Caroline erected her mother's headstone. Her name is given as Mrs. Henry Keyes. xiv. LOUISA DODD, b. Unknown. 4. JOSEPH2 BEVITT (MARY1 GAGER) was born Abt. 1801 in Westminster, England, and died 1845 in Entry No.589 Vol.30. NSW.. He married HARRIET FREEL. Notes for JOSEPH BEVITT: Came with mother Mary (Gager) Bevitt on Ld. Melville 1. in 1817. Sisters Mary Ann, Sarah and Isabella came as well. In 1821 Joseph left for England then tried his hand as a ships boy on the return journey: Muster of the Masr. Crew & Pafsengers of the Ship "Shipley"/ late male Convict Ship of London of the burthen of 381 tons bound to London direct with Colonial produce - 17th March, 1821. N22/336 page 311A Passengers of Shipley numbered 1-20. "Joseph Bevitt age 19 yrs, came free with his mother Mary Bevitt in the "Lord Melville" in 1817, now returns with consent of his said mother, No. 34 York St, Sydney. Joseph returned to the colony within 13 months, just enough time to get to England and back with perhaps a short stay there. Reel 2190, AONSW 4/1760, p24. "This is to certify that I will discharge Joseph Bevett/Boy/from the "Shipley" provided his friends can obtain permission from the Government for him to remain in the Colony. Given under my hand on Board the Shipley, Sydney Cove, 12th April, 1822. L. Moncrieff. Joseph's absence is the reason he is not included in the 1822 Muster No marriage has been found for Joseph but 3 children were found to be born to Joseph & Harriet Bevitt and George born to Harriet after Joseph's death. However on Harriet Bevitt's death certificate her daughter Margaret states 2 males & 3 females living (Joseph, George, Mary Ann, Margaret & Deborah (calculated) and 2 males & 1 female deceased ( Thomas, Henry & a female (Harriet?) More About JOSEPH BEVITT: Christening: April 01, 1807, St. Martins in the Fields, London Children of JOSEPH BEVITT and HARRIET FREEL are: i. JOSEPH3 BEVITT, b. Unknown. ii. GEORGE BEVITT, b. Unknown. iii. MARY ANN BEVITT, b. Unknown. iv. MARGARET BEVITT, b. Unknown. v. DEBORAH BEVITT, b. Unknown. vi. THOMAS BEVITT, b. Unknown. vii. HENRY BEVITT, b. Unknown. viii. HARRIET BEVITT, b. Unknown. Generation No. 3 5. ELIZABETH3 DODD (ISABELLA2 BEVITT, MARY1 GAGER) was born August 30, 1828 in Sydney, N.S.W. Australia, and died July 05, 1910 in N.S.W.. She married (1) MICHAEL NOY 1844. He died 1847. She married (2) HUGH LORD MCKAY January 27, 1855 in Windsor, N.S.W. Australia, son of DANIEL MCKAY and JUDITH QUINLAND. He was born April 28, 1814 in Sydney, N.S.W. Australia, and died April 26, 1877 in Lunatic Asylum, Parramatta, N.S.W.,Australia. Notes for ELIZABETH DODD: Taken from Archives: Christened at St. Phillips Church of England, Sydney, N.S.W. V1828/234 - 12. August 30, 1828. Have found a marriage of an Elizabeth Dodds to a Michael NOY (V18441224 158 District CE. Children from this marriage are; Anne Noy born to Michael and Elizabeth in 1844 (V1844 322 158) Michael J Noy born to Michael and Elizabeth in 1845 (V1845 410 158) Emma Noy born to Michael and Elizabeth in 1847 (V1847 516 158) According to Elizabeth's death certificate one son born to Michael Noy predeceased her. (Proof of this has not been found). Death of Elizabeth's husband Michael, aged 28, ( date of birth approx 1819) in 1847. (V1847 1057 157). The first three children listed with Hugh McKay were all registered as Noy, the assump- tion is that Elizabeth and Hugh McKay were living as man and wife , after her first hus- band's death in 1847 until their eventual marriage in 1855 and that Hugh was their father.. Notes for HUGH LORD MCKAY: Hugh Lord McKay. Entry V1814/4305 - 1B Information taken from Archives. Christened at St. Phillips Church of England, Sydney. Hugh's baptism certificate shows the ceremony occurred November 30th, 1817 at Richmond, and his parents are listed as Daniel McKay and Judith McKay. The 1828 Census lists Hugh McKay, 13 years of age and living at Richmond.NSW. Hugh McKay died in 1877, in the Lunatic Asylum, Parramatta. In 1848 the Parramatta Female Factory was turned into the Lunatic Asylum. His death is listed as due to dementia and senile decay. Hugh had been an inmate for 10 yrs, and he is buried at All Saints Cemetery, Parramatta. More About HUGH LORD MCKAY: Baptism: Number 4305 Vol: 1 Burial: April 28, 1877, All Saints Cemetery, Parramatta, N.S.W. Australia Reg No.: V1817 240 156/1817 Children of ELIZABETH DODD and MICHAEL NOY are: i. ANNE4 NOY, b. 1844. ii. MICHAEL J NOY, b. 1845. iii. EMMA NOY, b. 1847. Children of ELIZABETH DODD and HUGH MCKAY are: 6. iv. LOUISA (NOY)4 MCKAY, b. October 09, 1849, N.S.W.; d. October 13, 1937, Summer Hill, Sydney, N.S.W. Australia. v. HUGH (NOY) MCKAY, b. July 18, 1851. vi. JOHN (NOY) MCKAY, b. June 19, 1854. vii. ELIZABETH MCKAY, b. 1858. viii. MARGARET MCKAY, b. 1860. ix. WILLIAM MCKAY, b. Abt. 1862. 7. x. HENRY MCKAY, b. December 05, 1867; d. Abt. 1942. Generation No. 4 6. LOUISA (NOY)4 MCKAY (ELIZABETH3 DODD, ISABELLA2 BEVITT, MARY1 GAGER) was born October 09, 1849 in N.S.W., and died October 13, 1937 in Summer Hill, Sydney, N.S.W. Australia. She married RICHARD PETER BRICKWOOD May 27, 1871 in Registered at St. George, Sydney, N.S.W. Australia, son of ARTHUR BRICKWOOD and WINIFRED DAVIES. He was born March 17, 1837 in Devon, England, and died 1912 in Summer Hill, Sydney, N.S.W. Australia. Registered at Ashfield. More About LOUISA (NOY) MCKAY: Burial: Rookwood Cemetery, Sydney, N.S.W. Australia Death Reg. No.: No.20780/1937. Ashfield Notes for RICHARD PETER BRICKWOOD: Started the Brickwood Tin Mine at Tingha after receiving a Land Grant. When the mine was down to about three levels the ore was assayed and Richard was told it had a limited life left. He floated and sold it on the Sydney Stock Exchange. The mine went on to become the richest source of tin in Australia. With the proceeds from the sale he purchased a large portion of the Sydney Rocks area and a selection of land at Summer Hill, Sydney. He had been sold false title* to the houses in the 'Rocks Area', and, after collecting rents for approx. ten years had suit brought against him by the legal owner, lost, and was required to hand back all monies paid plus the properties. * The solicitor was 'crooked' and left with the money. He had also purchased approx. 40 blocks of land at Armidale, NSW, (where part of the University now stands), this purchase was unknown to the Brickwood family until about 1950 when a local seeking to purchase a block traced ownership of same. By this stage only 4 of the original 40 blocks had not been sold by the local council for payment of back rates. The family sold all 4 and distributed the proceeds to family members. The land at Summer Hill which consisted of an Orchard and a large family mansion was eventually sold, subdivided and blocks of flats built. 'Rorke's Drift' came from his estate. Source: Richard Thomas Owen Couper. More About RICHARD PETER BRICKWOOD: Burial: Rookwood Cemetery, Sydney, N.S.W. Australia Christening: September 19, 1837, Morrice St. Wesleyan, Devonport, Devon, England Death Reg. No.: No.14383/1912 Children of LOUISA MCKAY and RICHARD BRICKWOOD are: i. WINIFRED M.5 BRICKWOOD, b. 1871, St. George, Sydney, NSW, Australia. More About WINIFRED M. BRICKWOOD: Birth Ref. No.: No. 5379/1871. St. George ii. ETHEL SARAH BRICKWOOD, b. 1873, Newtown, Sydney, NSW, Australia; m. JOHN HINWOOD, 1898, Summer Hill, Sydney, NSW, Australia. More About ETHEL SARAH BRICKWOOD: Birth Ref. No.: No. 4018/1873. Newtown iii. ARTHUR RICHARD BRICKWOOD, b. September 01, 1874, Stanifer, N.S.W. Australia; d. July 15, 1954, 155 Avoca St, Randwick, Sydney, N.S.W. Australia; m. CECELIA ELIZABETH MCCOSKER, April 1904, 'Imperial Hotel' Inverell, N.S.W. Australia; b. March 22, 1882, Graman, N.S.W. Australia; d. December 19, 1969, Beverley Hills, Sydney, N.S.W. Australia. More About ARTHUR RICHARD BRICKWOOD: Birth Ref. No.: No. 12546/1874. Inverell Burial: Rookwood Cemetery, Sydney, N.S.W. Australia More About CECELIA ELIZABETH MCCOSKER: Burial: Rookwood Cemetery, Sydney, N.S.W. Australia iv. ROBERT LLOYD BRICKWOOD, b. 1875, Inverell, NSW, Australia. More About ROBERT LLOYD BRICKWOOD: Birth Ref. No.: No. 13071/1875. Inverell v. HUGH H. BRICKWOOD, b. 1877, Inverell, NSW, Australia. More About HUGH H. BRICKWOOD: Birth Ref. No.: No. 13780/1877. Inverell vi. ERNEST SLACK BRICKWOOD, b. 1879, Inverell, NSW, Australia; m. DRUSILLA HOUGH, 1909, Waterloo, Sydney, NSW, Australia. More About ERNEST SLACK BRICKWOOD: Birth Ref. No.: No. 15658/1879. Inverell vii. ALFRED EDWIN BRICKWOOD, b. 1881, Inverell, NSW, Australia; m. (1) MARY LONG, 1902, Sydney,N.S.W. Australia; m. (2) EVELYN JOHNSTONE, 1920, Chatswood, Sydney, NSW, Australia. More About ALFRED EDWIN BRICKWOOD: Birth Ref. No.: No. 19176/1881. Inverell viii. GEORGE CECIL BRICKWOOD, b. 1883, Petersham, Sydney, NSW, Australia; d. 1937, Summer Hill, Sydney, NSW. Aust.. More About GEORGE CECIL BRICKWOOD: Death Reg. No.: No.20857/1937. Ashfield. ix. LOUISA G. BRICKWOOD, b. 1885, Summer Hill, Sydney, NSW. Aust.; m. THOMAS MACDONALD, 1912, Summer Hill, Sydney, NSW, Australia. More About LOUISA G. BRICKWOOD: Birth Ref. No.: No. 5663/1885. Ashfield x. BESSIE F. BRICKWOOD, b. 1886, Summer Hill, Sydney, NSW. Aust.; m. CHARLES MACFARLANE, 1907, Leichhardt, Sydney, NSW, Australia. More About BESSIE F. BRICKWOOD: Birth Ref. No.: No. 6107/1886 Ashfield xi. JOHN CALLAGHAN BRICKWOOD, b. 1888, Summer Hill, Sydney, NSW. Aust.; d. October 25, 1984, Sans Souci, Sydney. N.S.W.; m. OLIVE ELIZABETH LIDDICOAT, November 16, 1918, Newtown, Sydney, NSW, Australia; b. 1893. More About JOHN CALLAGHAN BRICKWOOD: Birth Ref. No.: No. 6105/1888 Ashfield xii. MILDRED BRICKWOOD, b. 1889, Summer Hill, Sydney, NSW. Aust.; m. DANIEL MACDONALD, 1913, Summer Hill, Sydney, NSW, Australia. More About MILDRED BRICKWOOD: Birth Ref. No.: No. 5982/ 1889 Ashfield xiii. JAMES L.SOMMERVILLE BRICKWOOD, b. 1891, Summer Hill, Sydney, NSW. Aust.; m. DORIS I. MAY, 1919, Marrickville, Sydney, NSW, Australia. More About JAMES L.SOMMERVILLE BRICKWOOD: Birth Ref. No.: No. 4908/ 1891 Ashfield 7. HENRY4 MCKAY (ELIZABETH3 DODD, ISABELLA2 BEVITT, MARY1 GAGER) was born December 05, 1867, and died Abt. 1942. He married EVELYN MAUDE TYE September 15, 1887. Children of HENRY MCKAY and EVELYN TYE are: i. EVELYN MAUDE PEARL5 MCKAY, b. 1888. ii. JOSEPH H MCKAY, b. 1890. iii. ARTHUR H MCKAY, b. 1893. iv. LILIAN BESSIE MCKAY, b. 1896; m. (1) THOMAS EMO COLLINS, 1914; m. (2) LESLIE OTTO DE BERG, November 11, 1921. v. WILLIAM H MCKAY, b. 1898. vi. NAASSON H MCKAY, b. 1900.

On 09/06/2013 14:17, Lesley Robertson wrote: > Grrrr, > I've just had an email from someone wanting me to send him all of the > photos included in the burial ground section of my website! It's a > complete burial ground, there's a lot of photos (and work) there. I > politely replied that I wasn't willing to send them all, and that > there's no way that all of the people in the burial ground are related. > The answer's just come back that he has nearly all the names, so needs > all the pictures, but if I don't want to send him all of them, could he > just have those in a longish list.... > > I'm a bit reluctant to tell him that I know that there's several > unrelated lines among the more common surnames because I've checked the > families in case he demands the research notes as well! > > I don't mind helping people with ancestors in my OPS, but this is > seriously over the top! > > Grrrrr > Lesley Robertson Does he want to send them all to find-a-grave?

<roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> wrote: > From: nemo@erewhon.invalid (John Hill) > > > I was looking for an Ann Simonite or Simmonite, born ca 1824, in the > > 1841 census. One appears on HO107 piece 1329 folio 1/7 page 7. > > > > Her occupation is listed as F S - and she is not the only one so > > described. All are in their teens (well, one is 20). > > > > Any ideas on what this means? Family Servant, perhaps? > > > > John.> > > It's not an odd occupation, it's one of the most common in the 1841 census, > along with M.S. > > They simply stand for Male Servant and Female Servant. > > It's worth bearing in mind that when searching any census you should always > navigate your way to the beginning of each film and read the instructions to > the enumerators. > > > -- > Roy Stockdill My thanks. I'll bear that in mind. John -- Please reply to john at yclept dot wanadoo dot co dot uk.

> I was looking for an Ann Simonite or Simmonite, born ca 1824, in the > 1841 census. One appears on HO107 piece 1329 folio 1/7 page 7. > > Her occupation is listed as F S - and she is not the only one so > described. All are in their teens (well, one is 20). > > Any ideas on what this means? Family Servant, perhaps? Female servant. This is one of the standard abbreviations which enumerators were required to use, some of the the others being MS - male servant Asst - assistant Ag lab -agricultural labourer IND - of Independent means Paup - pauper (drawing money from Poor Relief) Fwk - Frame work knitter J -journeyman (craftsman having completed an apprenticeship) -Mkr - maker Pens - Pensioner (Army, Navy, civil service etc, not OAP) HP - Half Pay (officer, on reserve) EVE Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

On 17 Jun at 10:45, roy.stockdill@btinternet.com wrote: > From: Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@powys.org> > > > But what sort of performance should I have put on today on hearing > > that an ancestress who was judicially murdered most foully had lived > > in the house I was visiting? I have now found a total of 42 > > ancestors who were executed or hung, a fair number of them not > > without good cause. > > > > So I wonder if this could be the follow-up, to find some luvvies who > > could put on a good show as they were taken round all the various > > places of execution of their ancestors. We could have other luvvies > > acting the part of the to-be-hung ancestor. And the executioner. > > Jobs for the boys galore. > > > > Then we could have a competition for the luvvie who put on the > > greatest show of shock, horror, grief and dismay? With telephone > > voting of course.> > > You are even more cynical than I am! It doesn't surprise me in the > slightest to hear that many of your ancestors were executed. I > suspect there are those on the Board of Trustees at the SoG who have > harboured similar thoughts about both of us at one time or another! Another excuse for some telephone voting? > I wonder who's had the most ancestors executed, you or Clare Balding? Could be either way. Through her Hastings ancestors there are at least 19 executions and her Stanley ancestors bring in another 13, 32 so far. Give it a few months of hard exploration and I'm sure quite a few more could be found. > I presume you don't descend from the Duke of Clarence who Shakespeare > had being drowned in a butt of Malmsey, as she does? In 1905 a chap called Ruvigny published a volume of all the known descendants of said Clarence. At that time he counted 17,525 who were living. Multiply by at least four for the additional descendants from 1905 to 2013 and there might be well over 50,000 alive today who descend from George of the butt of Malmsey. Add in those whom Ruvigney left out. Subtract a few for those whose descent had what is known as a hiatus. Sounds like anywhere between 50,000 and 100,000. Of whom I and my siblings are but a few, unknown hiatuses apart. Clarence himself had only 8 executed ancestors including himself and then four of his descendants were disposed of though his gt-grandson young Henry Poole, who was held in the Tower, might just have died of natural causes around 1542 when he could have been around 7 years old. But imagine the terror that had been in the life of one of his sisters who survived to a ripe old age until Feb 1602/3. She had seen her brother die, somehow, in the tower, her father executed, her grandmother executed, her great uncle executed and her gt-grandfather drowned in that butt (or so it is said). She must have been afraid to put a single foot out of line throughout her life. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org for a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

On 17/06/2013 15:20, Keith Nuttle wrote: > On 6/17/2013 9:02 AM, Phil C. wrote: > > I have a 2nd great grand mother who the family had to put into an insane > asylum. The family was stressed by young children (8 with six under 10 > during that period) and had financial concerns. However as soon as they > could the she was brought home to her daughter's house and spent the > last several years of her life there. > > I doubt very much if "They weren't fussy about where they shoved the > helplessly disabled in those days." I should have been clearer. I was thinking of "the system" (i.e. once public assistance had been sought) rather than the family. I'm sure families varied a good deal in reactions to disability and mental illness. My grandfather was of the WWI generation - no doubt facilities were stretched! -- Phil C.

From: nemo@erewhon.invalid (John Hill) > I was looking for an Ann Simonite or Simmonite, born ca 1824, in the > 1841 census. One appears on HO107 piece 1329 folio 1/7 page 7. > > Her occupation is listed as F S - and she is not the only one so > described. All are in their teens (well, one is 20). > > Any ideas on what this means? Family Servant, perhaps? > > John.> It's not an odd occupation, it's one of the most common in the 1841 census, along with M.S. They simply stand for Male Servant and Female Servant. It's worth bearing in mind that when searching any census you should always navigate your way to the beginning of each film and read the instructions to the enumerators. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

I was looking for an Ann Simonite or Simmonite, born ca 1824, in the 1841 census. One appears on HO107 piece 1329 folio 1/7 page 7. Her occupation is listed as F S - and she is not the only one so described. All are in their teens (well, one is 20). Any ideas on what this means? Family Servant, perhaps? John. -- Please reply to john at yclept dot wanadoo dot co dot uk.

My mother told us that she had been in the workhouse when she was young. After she died I found minutes of the local Poor Law Union in 1928 listing my mother aged 10 and 5 of her siblings. The guardians had received a letter from the NSPCC suggesting that, as the father was dead and the mother had been diagnosed with Parkinsons disease, the board should adopt them. This they did after agreement with the mother and began to arrange foster parents. The mother, my grandmother, remained institutionalised until her death in 1947. Imagine the floods of tears if one of our thespians had discovered that. John

On 17/06/2013 01:31, Ann Watson wrote: > On 16/06/2013 7:22 AM, roy.stockdill@btinternet.com wrote: >> A new series starts on ITVI on Tuesday June 25, made by Wall To Wall >> Television, the same people who make Who Do You Think You Are? >> >> This will focus on celebrities who are horrified/shocked/appalled >> (choose your >> own phrase) to discover they had an ancestor who ended up in the >> workhouse. > > I'd save "horrified/shocked/appalled" for discovering ancestors who > ended up in the insane asylum! My grandfather did <shrug>. They weren't fussy about where they shoved the helplessly disabled in those days. -- Phil C.

On 16/06/2013 16:21, Tickettyboo wrote: > On 2013-06-16 12:22:45 +0100, roy.stockdill@btinternet.com said: > >> A new series starts on ITVI on Tuesday June 25, made by Wall To Wall >> Television, the same people who make Who Do You Think You Are? >> >> This will focus on celebrities who are horrified/shocked/appalled >> (choose your >> own phrase) to discover they had an ancestor who ended up in the >> workhouse. > I do wonder, in 100 years time will my descendants look at the notes I > have made about my childhood and turn on the tears (whether paid to do > so for the entertainment of others, or not). > > We (like many of my generation) grew up in a draughty. non centrally > heated house with poor insulation and we would often wake to see ice on > the inside of the bedroom windows. We walked miles to go to school, in > all weathers. Our family did not have a car, a car actually going up the > street was unusual - any deliveries (milk/coal etc) were done by horse > and cart. We didn't have a television or a telephone till I was in my > teens. Luxury! (etc etc) ;-) I wonder if future generations will have conquered cancer, alzheimer's, strokes etc. Perhaps war will be a distant memory, Perhaps they'll live fit, happy lives to age 150+. Will they shed a tear for us? -- Phil C.

<roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> wrote: > I myself was born in St Luke's Hospital, Bradford, which until the late > 1920s was the union workhouse until it was converted into a general > hospital for the whole community. However, on my birth certificate it > makes no mention of the fact that it was a hospital, it simply gives an > address which makes it look as if it was a private house. I subsequently > discovered that many people born in Bradford had the same address on their > birth certificates and this went on apparently into the 1960s because the > local register office was sensitive about the fact that many people even > at that time regarded it as a stigma to be born in what had once been the > workhouse. There's nowt so queer as folk! Exactly the same thin happened in Sheffield, at the Northern General Hospital, Herries Road - formerly Firvale Workhouse. See for example http://www.sheffieldindexers.com/NorthernGeneralHospital.html I have a couple of dozen burials where this 2 or 12 Herries Road is given as the place of death. They range in date from 1928 to 1976. John. -- Please reply to john at yclept dot wanadoo dot co dot uk.

From: Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@powys.org> > But what sort of performance should I have put on today on hearing that > an ancestress who was judicially murdered most foully had lived in the > house I was visiting? I have now found a total of 42 ancestors who were > executed or hung, a fair number of them not without good cause. > > So I wonder if this could be the follow-up, to find some luvvies who > could put on a good show as they were taken round all the various places > of execution of their ancestors. We could have other luvvies acting the > part of the to-be-hung ancestor. And the executioner. Jobs for the > boys galore. > > Then we could have a competition for the luvvie who put on the greatest > show of shock, horror, grief and dismay? With telephone voting of > course.> You are even more cynical than I am! It doesn't surprise me in the slightest to hear that many of your ancestors were executed. I suspect there are those on the Board of Trustees at the SoG who have harboured similar thoughts about both of us at one time or another! I wonder who's had the most ancestors executed, you or Clare Balding? I presume you don't descend from the Duke of Clarence who Shakespeare had being drowned in a butt of Malmsey, as she does? -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

On 6/17/2013 9:02 AM, Phil C. wrote: > On 17/06/2013 01:31, Ann Watson wrote: >> On 16/06/2013 7:22 AM, roy.stockdill@btinternet.com wrote: >>> A new series starts on ITVI on Tuesday June 25, made by Wall To Wall >>> Television, the same people who make Who Do You Think You Are? >>> >>> This will focus on celebrities who are horrified/shocked/appalled >>> (choose your >>> own phrase) to discover they had an ancestor who ended up in the >>> workhouse. >> >> I'd save "horrified/shocked/appalled" for discovering ancestors who >> ended up in the insane asylum! > > My grandfather did <shrug>. They weren't fussy about where they shoved > the helplessly disabled in those days. I do not like to believe that. I suspect that as today there are times when the family can not managed an firmed person, and public assistance is the only option. While today we find the Insane Asylum/Workhouse a horrid place, if you consider the alternatives that our ancestors were give, it was a very humane alternative. The could have given the person a chair in the woods, and let him died. At that time the family may have had numerous children in a house the consisted of one room, or a couple of rooms and a loft. Some of what they consider large houses, today would be considered small and large enough only for a young couple, or someone retired; if consider large enough to be considered a house. I have a 2nd great grand mother who the family had to put into an insane asylum. The family was stressed by young children (8 with six under 10 during that period) and had financial concerns. However as soon as they could the she was brought home to her daughter's house and spent the last several years of her life there. I doubt very much if "They weren't fussy about where they shoved the helplessly disabled in those days."

From: nemo@erewhon.invalid (John Hill) > Brian Austin <brian.austin@btinternet.com> wrote: > > > It's often forgotten that poor people went into the workhouse because they > > needed medical attention not because they couldn't support themselves > > financially. One of my great great grandmothers who had been living with > one > > of her daughters, did just that and died there. I remember discussing this > > with a distant relation who was quite upset to think of it despite my > > pointing out that this was quite normal. > > And indeed many of them did become hospitals when the workhouse system > shut down. > > Before that, you are quite right - I've several instances of people > going into Ecclesall Union (later Nether Edge Hospital) in Sheffield to > have babies. It stands out a bit because the families concerned normally > did their GRO registrations in Sheffield RD, but these were registered > in Ecclesall Bierlow. > > John.> Quite correct, both of you. In the days before we had the NHS etc, many poor people treated the workhouse as a temporary hospital and dropped in and out of the system when they needed to, sometimes being there only for a few days. This is not always understood by many people who seem to think their ancestors spent their lives in a workhouse. I am wondering if this will come across in the TV programme. I myself was born in St Luke's Hospital, Bradford, which until the late 1920s was the union workhouse until it was converted into a general hospital for the whole community. However, on my birth certificate it makes no mention of the fact that it was a hospital, it simply gives an address which makes it look as if it was a private house. I subsequently discovered that many people born in Bradford had the same address on their birth certificates and this went on apparently into the 1960s because the local register office was sensitive about the fact that many people even at that time regarded it as a stigma to be born in what had once been the workhouse. There's nowt so queer as folk! -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

John Hill wrote: > Brian Austin <brian.austin@btinternet.com> wrote: > >> It's often forgotten that poor people went into the workhouse because they >> needed medical attention not because they couldn't support themselves >> financially. One of my great great grandmothers who had been living with one >> of her daughters, did just that and died there. I remember discussing this >> with a distant relation who was quite upset to think of it despite my >> pointing out that this was quite normal. > > And indeed many of them did become hospitals when the workhouse system > shut down. > > Before that, you are quite right - I've several instances of people > going into Ecclesall Union (later Nether Edge Hospital) in Sheffield to > have babies. It stands out a bit because the families concerned normally > did their GRO registrations in Sheffield RD, but these were registered > in Ecclesall Bierlow. Deanhouse http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Huddersfield/HuddersfieldDeanhouse1881.shtml was another example. It's noticeable that relatively few inmates in this list were married and also that a relatively high proportion were born some distance away. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

On 17/06/2013 00:36, Piercefield wrote: > Cruel times. All times are cruel times, I have come to think. Another of partner's relatives, her grandfather, died only in the 1980s. Cause: pernicious anaemia. He had been diagnosed many years earlier, and put onto monthly injections. We believe that this was dropped to every two months, and then every three months - as happened to possibly the vast majority of sufferers. (Seems to have been widespread NHS cost saving.) And, indeed, continues to be standard, despite huge volumes of evidence that this is inadequate. The upset of this was not for him (partner never met him for complex reasons), but that the same health issue ripples on and on and lets people continue to suffer severely. -- Rod

roy.stockdill@btinternet.com wrote: > However, am I being unfair in thinking these showbiz > luvvies can turn on the tears and emotion to demand? Clearly, none of them can > be family historians since people such as ourselves would take it all in our > stride! Wouldn't we??? To some extent, maybe. As a profession they're trained to produce emotional responses to scripts. Your immediate professional reaction would be to some genealogical fact think how to get an article out of it, mine would be how to draw up a data structure to record it and theirs would be to produce a reaction as if it were all current reality in front of them. Horses for courses. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk