On 09/07/2013 08:45, Geoff Pearson wrote: > I have a photograph of Lillis Jane Kerr Condie Dick BOAG (1906-1971) > taken with a man said to be her uncle (probably Matthew Hamilton BOAG) > who is in a Royal Navy stoker's uniform. The photo was thought to be a > memento for him to take on his trips - and I guess it would have been > taken 1914-16. > > His cap says "HMS Duke of..." and I can't read the rest. It doesn't > look like Edinburgh, a likely name as the family lived in Leith. > > Is there a list of all the HMS Duke of * ships I could consider against > the photo? I've Googled and not seen anything that I can screw my eyes > up to fit. > > Geoff The following ships carried the names of Dukes in WW1: HMS Duke of Albany HMS Duke of Clarence HMS Duke of Cornwall HMS Duke of Edinburgh The first three were merchant vessels taken up and used as armed boarding steamers. HMS Duke of Edinburgh was a large cruiser which served in the Mediterranean early in the war then transferred to Scapa Flow and was with the Grand Fleet at Jutland. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

On 2013-07-09 08:23:54 +0000, Peter Haizelden said: > On Sunday, July 7, 2013 10:57:26 PM UTC+1, Tickettyboo wrote: >> Trying to help a friend who is researching the history of a previous>> >> owner of a military sword, one John Duncan Bertie Fulton (1876-1915) >> > The Malvern register, 1865-1904, p.269 > > Fulton, John Duncan Bertie, Capt.; born 1876. Huntington — House. Son > of Mrs. Fulton, 76 Longridge Road, London, S.W. Army Side. House > Prefect. Left Mids. 1893. R.M.A., Woolwich ; Captain Royal Artillery > 1902 ; served in the South African War. > Parent's Address. > > Bertie Fulton, 4 year old, living at Bilton cum Harrogate in 1881 - > but no family present > RG11; Piece: 4327; Folio: 94; Page: 12 > > London, England, Electoral Registers 1889-1909 > Jane Elizabeth Fulton 1889 Kensington and Chelsea South Division - 76 > Longridge road > > She's not at that address for the 1901 census - RG13; Piece: 38; > Folio: 86; Page: 5 > > Jane Elizabeth Fulton of Orchardlea, 34 The Avenue, Kew Gardens, > Surrey, widow, died 26 June 1910. Probate London 27 July 1910 to John > Duncan Bertie Fulton, Captain RA. > > England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 > Name: Jane Elizabeth Fulton > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837 > Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1910 > Age at Death: 73 > Registration District: Richmond > Inferred County: Surrey > Volume: 2a > Page: 264 > > A little on the person I presume was appointed executor of J. D. B.'s will > http://www.webspinners.org.uk/weddingtoncastle2/2012/attleborough%20aerodrome/Attleborough%20Airfield%20John%20Grech.pdf > > Capt Daniel Goodwin Connor born Dublin 02/12/1884, before joining the > RFC had served > with the R.A., RFA and RE. He learnt to fly at the Military School at > Larkhill on Salisbury Plain in > 1911 and was awarded his Royal Aero club licence on 07/04/11 number 54. > He went on to > serve with 3 and 5 Squadrons pre war and during the war he held a > number of senior postions in > the RFC as a Technical Officer. In 1920 as a Wing Commander he resigned > and returned to the > Army. > Ottawa Citizen - Mar 25, 1939 > Colonel Daniel Goodwin Connor, of Manch House, Co. Cork, has been > ordained in holy orders in the Protestant Cathedral, Cork. The new > clergymans family have been associated with Co Cork for over 300 years, > and for generations have been associated with the legal profession. Col > Connor served with distinction in the Great War. His wife, who was a > Miss Roberts. daughter of a former vice-provost of Trinity College, > Dublin, died last year. > > > Peter Haizelden > Genealogist and Family Historian > www.haizelden.co.uk Thank you Peter, The Malvern Register is online at archive.org and I now have copies of the entry for JDBF. I still don't have anything official that confirms that the Fulton Block was named for JDB Fulton ( though various snippets on the web indicate that it was). This info really helps though as it excludes his mother from being the benefactor so I am back to trying to find if he married and his wife was styled as Lady Fulton. I will try the NA, to see if they can point me in the right direction. -- Tickettyboo

On Sunday, July 7, 2013 10:57:26 PM UTC+1, Tickettyboo wrote: > John Duncan Bertie Fulton (1876-1915) > he was amongst those "To be Ordinary > Members of the Military Division of the Third Class, or Companions, > of > the Most Honourable Order of the Bath". > Okay, so that is confirmed, but would this entitle his wife/widow to > style herself as 'Lady Fulton'? Googling "John Duncan Fulton" gives two results - at findagrave and salisburyinquests. http://www.thepeerage.com/i1312.htm#s17450 does not give a "John Duncan Fulton" - the only "Lord Fulton" given there is John Scott Fulton, given a Life Peerage in 1966, and there is no record there of a wife. The Jane Fulton (d. 1910) given by Peter Haizelden (Tuesday, July 09, 2013 9:23 AM) would probably have been Bertie's mother. Googling "Lady Fulton" gives at No. 1 "Fulton Block the worlds oldest/largest/crapiest barrack block" ... and lots of mentions for a horse and for a cocker spaniel, both carrying that name !

On 09/07/2013 08:45, Geoff Pearson wrote: > I have a photograph of Lillis Jane Kerr Condie Dick BOAG (1906-1971) > taken with a man said to be her uncle (probably Matthew Hamilton BOAG) > who is in a Royal Navy stoker's uniform. The photo was thought to be a > memento for him to take on his trips - and I guess it would have been > taken 1914-16. > > His cap says "HMS Duke of..." and I can't read the rest. It doesn't > look like Edinburgh, a likely name as the family lived in Leith. > > Is there a list of all the HMS Duke of * ships I could consider against > the photo? I've Googled and not seen anything that I can screw my eyes > up to fit. > > Geoff This is an excellent source for naval history. It has ships indexed and also often details of what actions they were involved in. http://www.naval-history.net/

"wtwjgc (Joe)" <news@welcometowakefield.org.uk> wrote in message news:483442699395050863.984530news-welcometowakefield.org.uk@news.plus.net... > "Geoff Pearson" <gspearson1647@hotmail.com> wrote: >> I have a photograph of Lillis Jane Kerr Condie Dick BOAG (1906-1971) >> taken with a man said to be her uncle (probably Matthew Hamilton BOAG) >> who is in a Royal Navy stoker's uniform. The photo was thought to be a >> memento for him to take on his trips - and I guess it would have been >> taken 1914-16. >> >> His cap says "HMS Duke of..." and I can't read the rest. It doesn't look >> like Edinburgh, a likely name as the family lived in Leith. >> >> Is there a list of all the HMS Duke of * ships I could consider against >> the photo? I've Googled and not seen anything that I can screw my eyes >> up to fit. >> >> Geoff > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ship_names_of_the_Royal_Navy> > > -- > wtwjgc (Joe) <http://welcometowakefield.org.uk/> Joe thanks - I was hoping there would be more Dukes. The only runner here is HMS Duke of Albany - which is worth a look. Geoff

"Geoff Pearson" <gspearson1647@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:b41tbhF1u6jU1@mid.individual.net... > I have a photograph of Lillis Jane Kerr Condie Dick BOAG (1906-1971) taken > with a man said to be her uncle (probably Matthew Hamilton BOAG) who is in > a Royal Navy stoker's uniform. The photo was thought to be a memento for > him to take on his trips - and I guess it would have been taken 1914-16. > > His cap says "HMS Duke of..." and I can't read the rest. It doesn't look > like Edinburgh, a likely name as the family lived in Leith. > > Is there a list of all the HMS Duke of * ships I could consider against > the photo? I've Googled and not seen anything that I can screw my eyes up > to fit. > > Geoff Looks as if it starts AISCH...but it can't do!

"Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message news:b3u6i6F8d6uU1@mid.individual.net... > I am way out of my usual area here <I have a long line of Ag Labs and > Anchor Smiths and haven't ever needed to venture up the 'posh end'> > > Trying to help a friend who is researching the history of a previous owner > of a military sword, one John Duncan Bertie Fulton (1876-1915) > In amongst the masses of paperwork he has collected about this man's > career etc is confirmation from The Central Chancery if the Orders of > Knighthood saying that, in 1914, he was amongst those "To be Ordinary > Members of the Military Division of the Third Class, or Companions, of the > Most Honourable Order of the Bath". > > Okay, so that is confirmed, but would this entitle his wife/widow to style > herself as 'Lady Fulton'? > > I can't find a record of this man marrying but various articles on the net > indicate that the Fulton Block, in RAF Cosford was built c 1938 and named > in his memory. The funding of £250,000 was said to come from his widow, > Lady Fulton. I haven't yet found a marriage for him and there was no > mention of a widow on the CWGC site, nor in a four page obit about him in > 'The Aeroplane' vol IX, no 20, dated 17th November 1915, so its just not > adding up at the moment. > > Supplementary question - His probate record says Administration (with Will > limited) to an attorney. Am I correct in thinking that the 'limited' > relates to the Administration (perhaps not all of the estate was clear to > go into probate and they allowed 'some' of his effects to be adminstered) > , and not a comment about the actual will? I am hoping that a will may > shed some light on whether or not he married. > > -- > Tickettyboo > >From Wikipedia - so it must be true! "CBs must be of the rank of Lieutenant Commander, Major or Squadron Leader, and in addition must have been mentioned in despatches for distinction in a command position in a combat situation. Non-line officers (e.g. engineers, medics) may be appointed only for meritorious service in war time." This means JDBF must have done some combat service - like 1902 Ladysmith, for which there is a London Gazette entry - and it was not not for being a peace time Chief Inspector of a pioneer aviator. Flying wasn't invented until 1903.

I have a photograph of Lillis Jane Kerr Condie Dick BOAG (1906-1971) taken with a man said to be her uncle (probably Matthew Hamilton BOAG) who is in a Royal Navy stoker's uniform. The photo was thought to be a memento for him to take on his trips - and I guess it would have been taken 1914-16. His cap says "HMS Duke of..." and I can't read the rest. It doesn't look like Edinburgh, a likely name as the family lived in Leith. Is there a list of all the HMS Duke of * ships I could consider against the photo? I've Googled and not seen anything that I can screw my eyes up to fit. Geoff

"Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message news:b3vj57Fh5ukU1@mid.individual.net... > On 2013-07-08 10:11:16 +0000, Graeme Wall said: > >> On 08/07/2013 10:09, Geoff Pearson wrote: >>> >>> "Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message >>> news:b3u6i6F8d6uU1@mid.individual.net... >>>> I am way out of my usual area here <I have a long line of Ag Labs and >>>> Anchor Smiths and haven't ever needed to venture up the 'posh end'> >>>> >>>> Trying to help a friend who is researching the history of a previous >>>> owner of a military sword, one John Duncan Bertie Fulton (1876-1915) >>>> In amongst the masses of paperwork he has collected about this man's >>>> career etc is confirmation from The Central Chancery if the Orders of >>>> Knighthood saying that, in 1914, he was amongst those "To be Ordinary >>>> Members of the Military Division of the Third Class, or Companions, of >>>> the Most Honourable Order of the Bath". >>>> >>>> Okay, so that is confirmed, but would this entitle his wife/widow to >>>> style herself as 'Lady Fulton'? >>>> >>> >>> In the 1911 census he is shown as "single" aged 34. Might there be two >>> John Fultons? >> >> There's a John D Fulton married in 1910 to either Alice C Harris or May >> Mortimer in Fulham. > > I spotted that one and checked it out in the London Parish database, this > John D had a middle name of Davey so its not the manI am looking for >> >> I believe he was a Lt-Colonel in the RFA so his wife may have been styled >> Lady as a courtesy title. >> >> Have you tried contacting RAF Cosford? > > Yes, I tried the museum first and they suggested the base, so I have > emailed to ask if they can point me in the right direction. > > -- > Tickettyboo > The Ministry of Defence will have passed the files on the construction of the Fulton Mess to the National Archives. I worked on the half century of St Andrews House in Edinburgh HQ of the Scottish Government), opened 4 September 1939 and was able to see all the files.

"Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message news:b3u6i6F8d6uU1@mid.individual.net... > > Supplementary question - His probate record says Administration (with Will > limited) to an attorney. Am I correct in thinking that the 'limited' > relates to the Administration (perhaps not all of the estate was clear to > go into probate and they allowed 'some' of his effects to be adminstered) > , and not a comment about the actual will? I am hoping that a will may > shed some light on whether or not he married. > > -- > Tickettyboo > I am possibly going off at a tangent here. The man had a limited Administration for less than £10,000 and about twenty years later his wife or other relative spends £250,000! Where did the money come from? I would check the probate records for any Fulton entries in the 1930's who left enough to include a bequest to the RAF of that size. What became of the son (or have I missed that)? Could the 'Lady' be his wife?

"Geoff Pearson" <gspearson1647@hotmail.com> wrote: > I have a photograph of Lillis Jane Kerr Condie Dick BOAG (1906-1971) > taken with a man said to be her uncle (probably Matthew Hamilton BOAG) > who is in a Royal Navy stoker's uniform. The photo was thought to be a > memento for him to take on his trips - and I guess it would have been taken 1914-16. > > His cap says "HMS Duke of..." and I can't read the rest. It doesn't look > like Edinburgh, a likely name as the family lived in Leith. > > Is there a list of all the HMS Duke of * ships I could consider against > the photo? I've Googled and not seen anything that I can screw my eyes up to fit. > > Geoff <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ship_names_of_the_Royal_Navy> -- wtwjgc (Joe) <http://welcometowakefield.org.uk/>

On Sunday, July 7, 2013 10:57:26 PM UTC+1, Tickettyboo wrote: > I am way out of my usual area here <I have a long line of Ag Labs and > > Anchor Smiths and haven't ever needed to venture up the 'posh end'> > > > > Trying to help a friend who is researching the history of a previous > > owner of a military sword, one John Duncan Bertie Fulton (1876-1915) > > In amongst the masses of paperwork he has collected about this man's > > career etc is confirmation from The Central Chancery if the Orders of > > Knighthood saying that, in 1914, he was amongst those "To be Ordinary > > Members of the Military Division of the Third Class, or Companions, of > > the Most Honourable Order of the Bath". > > > > Okay, so that is confirmed, but would this entitle his wife/widow to > > style herself as 'Lady Fulton'? > > > > I can't find a record of this man marrying but various articles on the > > net indicate that the Fulton Block, in RAF Cosford was built c 1938 and > > named in his memory. The funding of �250,000 was said to come from his > > widow, Lady Fulton. I haven't yet found a marriage for him and there > > was no mention of a widow on the CWGC site, nor in a four page obit > > about him in 'The Aeroplane' vol IX, no 20, dated 17th November 1915, > > so its just not adding up at the moment. > > > > Supplementary question - His probate record says Administration (with > > Will limited) to an attorney. Am I correct in thinking that the > > 'limited' relates to the Administration (perhaps not all of the estate > > was clear to go into probate and they allowed 'some' of his effects to > > be adminstered) , and not a comment about the actual will? I am hoping > > that a will may shed some light on whether or not he married. > > > > -- > > Tickettyboo The Malvern register, 1865-1904, p.269 Fulton, John Duncan Bertie, Capt.; born 1876. Huntington — House. Son of Mrs. Fulton, 76 Longridge Road, London, S.W. Army Side. House Prefect. Left Mids. 1893. R.M.A., Woolwich ; Captain Royal Artillery 1902 ; served in the South African War. Parent's Address. Bertie Fulton, 4 year old, living at Bilton cum Harrogate in 1881 - but no family present RG11; Piece: 4327; Folio: 94; Page: 12 London, England, Electoral Registers 1889-1909 Jane Elizabeth Fulton 1889 Kensington and Chelsea South Division - 76 Longridge road She's not at that address for the 1901 census - RG13; Piece: 38; Folio: 86; Page: 5 Jane Elizabeth Fulton of Orchardlea, 34 The Avenue, Kew Gardens, Surrey, widow, died 26 June 1910. Probate London 27 July 1910 to John Duncan Bertie Fulton, Captain RA. England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 Name: Jane Elizabeth Fulton Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837 Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1910 Age at Death: 73 Registration District: Richmond Inferred County: Surrey Volume: 2a Page: 264 A little on the person I presume was appointed executor of J. D. B.'s will http://www.webspinners.org.uk/weddingtoncastle2/2012/attleborough%20aerodrome/Attleborough%20Airfield%20John%20Grech.pdf Capt Daniel Goodwin Connor born Dublin 02/12/1884, before joining the RFC had served with the R.A., RFA and RE. He learnt to fly at the Military School at Larkhill on Salisbury Plain in 1911 and was awarded his Royal Aero club licence on 07/04/11 number 54. He went on to serve with 3 and 5 Squadrons pre war and during the war he held a number of senior postions in the RFC as a Technical Officer. In 1920 as a Wing Commander he resigned and returned to the Army. Ottawa Citizen - Mar 25, 1939 Colonel Daniel Goodwin Connor, of Manch House, Co. Cork, has been ordained in holy orders in the Protestant Cathedral, Cork. The new clergymans family have been associated with Co Cork for over 300 years, and for generations have been associated with the legal profession. Col Connor served with distinction in the Great War. His wife, who was a Miss Roberts. daughter of a former vice-provost of Trinity College, Dublin, died last year. Peter Haizelden Genealogist and Family Historian www.haizelden.co.uk

On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 17:58:34 +0100, eve@varneys.org.uk wrote: >The plot thickens. > Allegedly, JDB Fulton married Marie Carew in 1898 and had a son Denis in >1899 in Crediton Devon. > In 1901, Marie Fulton ,decsribing herself as an artist and wife of Army >Captain, is living with Denis over a greengrocers. I note that JDB Fulton was >not gazetted Lieutenant till Sptember 1901, never mind Captain. > However, in 1911, Marie is the wife of Henry Herbert Chaston, toilet and >perfumery manufacturer, living in Hapenden, allegedly married 10 years, with >children by him aged 4-8, plus Denis Fulton, 11, stepson. > There is no trace of a marriage of JDB Fulton and Marie Carew, but as she >was born in Wexford, Ireland, this could be where a marriage happened. > There is no match in the Irish (or Manx in case they stopped off half-way) indexes. > However again, Henry Herbert Chaston was divorved by his first wife, >Maud, in 1901 (case set down on the very day he returned to England from >New York. The charge was adultery with an unknown woman, striking her >with clenched fist, and deserting her in 1898. The decree nisi was in April >1901, final in October 1901. > Therefore a marriage of Henry to Marie ten years before April 1911 was not >possible, and no registration is found until 1910, when Henry Herbert >Chaston marries Marie Parry Jones (probably at a register office, no church >event found). >There is no divorce for JOHN DB Fulton or Marie Fulton. The probability is >they were not married. Otherwise, she3 was committing bigamy and would >hardly dare a high profile association with JDBH> > When Henry H Chaston died in 1937, leavibng a small estate, his widow >was Vera Isabella. Marie, allegedly dying in 1935. left no will in any of her >known names. > >So probably JDB Fulton really was unmarried in 1911 - the son Dnis may or >may not be his, but Maried Chaston would have no claim to be 'Lady Fulton', >wven by bidding up his CBE. And no access to large funds, unless she found >another man with money (at an advanced age for that sort of thing). > Is it possible that the 'Lady Fulton' concerned was the hero's aged Mother, >or an aunt, wishing to commemorate him? > >EVE

On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 11:38:13 +0100, "Geoff Pearson" <gspearson1647@hotmail.com> wrote: > >"Graeme Wall" <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message >news:5fwCt.34044$2z3.8730@fx28.fr7... >> On 08/07/2013 10:09, Geoff Pearson wrote: >>> >>> "Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message >>> news:b3u6i6F8d6uU1@mid.individual.net... >>>> I am way out of my usual area here <I have a long line of Ag Labs and >>>> Anchor Smiths and haven't ever needed to venture up the 'posh end'> >>>> >>>> Trying to help a friend who is researching the history of a previous >>>> owner of a military sword, one John Duncan Bertie Fulton (1876-1915) >>>> In amongst the masses of paperwork he has collected about this man's >>>> career etc is confirmation from The Central Chancery if the Orders of >>>> Knighthood saying that, in 1914, he was amongst those "To be Ordinary >>>> Members of the Military Division of the Third Class, or Companions, of >>>> the Most Honourable Order of the Bath". >>>> >>>> Okay, so that is confirmed, but would this entitle his wife/widow to >>>> style herself as 'Lady Fulton'? >>>> >>>> I can't find a record of this man marrying but various articles on the >>>> net indicate that the Fulton Block, in RAF Cosford was built c 1938 >>>> and named in his memory. The funding of £250,000 was said to come from >>>> his widow, Lady Fulton. I haven't yet found a marriage for him and >>>> there was no mention of a widow on the CWGC site, nor in a four page >>>> obit about him in 'The Aeroplane' vol IX, no 20, dated 17th November >>>> 1915, so its just not adding up at the moment. >>>> >>>> Supplementary question - His probate record says Administration (with >>>> Will limited) to an attorney. Am I correct in thinking that the >>>> 'limited' relates to the Administration (perhaps not all of the estate >>>> was clear to go into probate and they allowed 'some' of his effects to >>>> be adminstered) , and not a comment about the actual will? I am hoping >>>> that a will may shed some light on whether or not he married. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tickettyboo >>>> >>> >>> In the 1911 census he is shown as "single" aged 34. Might there be two >>> John Fultons? >> >> There's a John D Fulton married in 1910 to either Alice C Harris or May >> Mortimer in Fulham. >> Possibly John FULTON (25), storekeeper for an electrical fittings company and Alice (25) at 21 Goldney Road, Paddington in 1911, married for less than a year ? >> I believe he was a Lt-Colonel in the RFA so his wife may have been styled >> Lady as a courtesy title. >> >> Have you tried contacting RAF Cosford? >> >> -- >> Graeme Wall >> This account not read, substitute trains for rail. >> Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail> > >I think if the wife of a Lt Colonel called herself Lady without entitlement >the senior officers would have something to say. > Being a woman was the only qualification necessary as long as she only used the "Lady" in conjunction with her surname not some supposed title. >It is a relatively junior >rank amongst senior officers (one below my own) and miles below where a >knighthood would be awarded today. He seems to have moved very fast between >being single in 1911 and married but dead in 1915 , with a CB picked up on >the way at the age of 39. Perhaps he was a spy or did something special >that cannot be spoken of?

eve@varneys.org.uk wrote: %>< > > Is it possible that the 'Lady Fulton' concerned was the hero's aged Mother, > or an aunt, wishing to commemorate him? A Who's Who of the time might be useful. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

Tickettyboo wrote:     <snip>   Shame on the RAF for not knowing their own history and  heritage.   <snip>       Just a thought. Have you tried the Freemasons?         Chris

Charlie <plink.2RoyTubb@spamgourmet.com> wrote: > Sorry Eve, this is complete nonsense. Did you ever meet, speak to or > know any of those peeople who actually 'enjoyed the hospitality' of a > workhouse? I did, and their dread of ever having to return there has > stayed in my memory for many years. The utter fear of those > institutions terrjfied those who had not been interred in what were > effectively prisons for the poor, but who had relative who had > suffered. Do you think it was fun for mothers to be forcibly > separated from their children, maybe never to see them again? > Likewise brothers and sisters, long time husbands and wives, all > forced into institutional uniforms, effectively prison clothes. All > this was just a bit of light rekief I suppose. On the contrary, Eve is correct, your comments are tripe. Nobody was imprisoned in the workhouse - they applied to be admitted, and were free to leave whenever they chose. For the old, the infirm, the destitute and the ill, they were a lifeline, a refuge when times were hard. My own gt gt grandfather, Francis Pears (1840-1904), was in and out of Lanchester Workhouse frequently during the last several years of his life. He suffered chest troubles and when he was feeling poorly he added to his problems by consuming an excess of alcohol. When he wasn't able to work he went to the workhouse to rest, recuperate and dry out. After a stay of a few weeks he discharged himself and went back to work until his health and/or alcohol level dictated a return to his refuge. This only stopped when, during one stay, he developed pneumonia and died. A gt gt gt grandmother, Elizabeth Speakman nee Cawthorn (1819-1893), was not in good health, but she lived quite comfortably at Seaham Harbour with her husband, Charles (1811-1888) a sail weaver and costermonger. But when her husband died she was destitute - neither of her daughters was in a position to help her, so she applied to Easington Workhouse and lived there until her death in 1893. Another relation - who will be nameless because her daughter is still living - found herself pregnant and rejected by her parents. She had the child in Gateshead Workhouse (Teams Institution) as it was the only option open to her. She subsequently married and they all lived happily ever after - well, until death did they part, at least. Yes, the workhouse was made deliberately unpleasant for those who were fit enough to work - otherwise, as with benefits today, folks would regard it as an acceptable career choice. But it was always a choice - nobody was dragged screaming to the workhouse, and nobody was forcibly held there. Yes the fit ones had to work, yes men women and children were separated, but inmates were fed, clothed and given a roof over their heads, and children were educated. And, above all, they could walk out when they wanted. -- Brian Pears (Gateshead)

On 2013-07-08 16:58:34 +0000, eve@varneys.org.uk said: > The plot thickens. > Allegedly, JDB Fulton married Marie Carew in 1898 and had a son Denis in > 1899 in Crediton Devon. > In 1901, Marie Fulton ,decsribing herself as an artist and wife of Army > Captain, is living with Denis over a greengrocers. I note that JDB Fulton was > not gazetted Lieutenant till Sptember 1901, never mind Captain. > However, in 1911, Marie is the wife of Henry Herbert Chaston, toilet and > perfumery manufacturer, living in Hapenden, allegedly married 10 years, with > children by him aged 4-8, plus Denis Fulton, 11, stepson. > There is no trace of a marriage of JDB Fulton and Marie Carew, but as she > was born in Wexford, Ireland, this could be where a marriage happened. > However again, Henry Herbert Chaston was divorved by his first wife, > Maud, in 1901 (case set down on the very day he returned to England from > New York. The charge was adultery with an unknown woman, striking her > with clenched fist, and deserting her in 1898. The decree nisi was in April > 1901, final in October 1901. > Therefore a marriage of Henry to Marie ten years before April 1911 was not > possible, and no registration is found until 1910, when Henry Herbert > Chaston marries Marie Parry Jones (probably at a register office, no church > event found). > There is no divorce for JOHN DB Fulton or Marie Fulton. The probability is > they were not married. Otherwise, she3 was committing bigamy and would > hardly dare a high profile association with JDBH> > When Henry H Chaston died in 1937, leavibng a small estate, his widow > was Vera Isabella. Marie, allegedly dying in 1935. left no will in any of her > known names. > > So probably JDB Fulton really was unmarried in 1911 - the son Dnis may or > may not be his, but Maried Chaston would have no claim to be 'Lady Fulton', > wven by bidding up his CBE. And no access to large funds, unless she found > another man with money (at an advanced age for that sort of thing). > Is it possible that the 'Lady Fulton' concerned was the hero's aged Mother, > or an aunt, wishing to commemorate him? > > EVE :-) Yes, I have all those details and its all definitely in the 'not impossible, but Lord alone knows how I will verify any of it' category. Its all smoke and mirrors and 'let's just fib so it looks good' :-) It is possible that the Lady Fulton was JDBF's Mum, and not his wife/widow. My only info on the Fulton Block bequest comes from various websites and I have (as yet) no way to prove or disprove those statements. I contacted the RAF Museum at Cosford - they pointed me to the base itself. I emailed the contact address for the base and was told they know nothing about Lady Fulton or what her name may have been and only have two small pieces of info (from books) about what appears to be one of the founding fathers of the armed service in which they serve. I am rather taken aback by that. My friend, who now owns JDBF's military sword ( that's verified by Wilkinson Sword and he has a copy page from the ledger in 1895 saying that number sword was made and sold to JDBF) has no prior experience of research, no connection to the RAF and yet 'he' has amassed oodles of info about the man and his career. Shame on the RAF for not knowing their own history and heritage. -- Tickettyboo

"Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message news:b3vng6Fi3pfU1@mid.individual.net... > On 2013-07-08 10:57:01 +0000, Geoff Pearson said: > >> "Geoff Pearson" <gspearson1647@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:b3vdubFg2m9U1@mid.individual.net... >>> >>> "Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message >>> news:b3u6i6F8d6uU1@mid.individual.net... >>>> I am way out of my usual area here <I have a long line of Ag Labs and >>>> Anchor Smiths and haven't ever needed to venture up the 'posh end'> >>>> >>>> Trying to help a friend who is researching the history of a previous >>>> owner of a military sword, one John Duncan Bertie Fulton (1876-1915) >>>> In amongst the masses of paperwork he has collected about this man's >>>> career etc is confirmation from The Central Chancery if the Orders of >>>> Knighthood saying that, in 1914, he was amongst those "To be Ordinary >>>> Members of the Military Division of the Third Class, or Companions, of >>>> the Most Honourable Order of the Bath". >>>> >>>> >>> >>> In the 1911 census he is shown as "single" aged 34. Might there be two >>> John Fultons? >> >> Hope this is all of interest. I'm still puzzled as to when and why he >> got the CB - today a very elevated award. >> >> ROYAL FLYING CORPS. >> Military Wing, Major John D. B. Fulton, >> C.B., Royal Artillery, Chief Inspector, >> Aeronautical Inspection Department, is appointed >> to the Reserve. Dated 17th December, >> 1913 > > I have just skimmed though the 4 page obit published in The Aeroplane, Nov > 1915 which seems to say he was one of the first aviators (flying licence > no 27). and this part seems to say 'why' he was given the C.B. > <quote> > In May 1912 he was appointed to the newly formed Central Flying School as > an Instructor and was put in charge of the workshops, where he did for the > mechanical side of the R.F.C. much what Major Trenchard […] did for the > personnel. > <snip> > In December 1913 he became Chief Inspector of Material R.F.C. and for his > services was given a C.B. > <snip> > In 1914, the Aeronautical Inspection Department was formed and placed > entirely under his control. > </quote> > > > -- > Tickettyboo > I suspect the CB was for the Relief of Mafeking in 1902 when he was in the Army. The Honours lists were not published until about 1917 so finding where these awards were publicised is quite difficult. You could try the Cabinet Office for sight of the citation - there is a 100 year restriction on release. And poor Lady Fulton is said to have haunted the building she paid for - the difficulty there is that Lady is not a title that goes with any specific level - all aristocratic women get called Lady until they get to Duchess - calling a Duchess, Lady is quite wrong.

The plot thickens. Allegedly, JDB Fulton married Marie Carew in 1898 and had a son Denis in 1899 in Crediton Devon. In 1901, Marie Fulton ,decsribing herself as an artist and wife of Army Captain, is living with Denis over a greengrocers. I note that JDB Fulton was not gazetted Lieutenant till Sptember 1901, never mind Captain. However, in 1911, Marie is the wife of Henry Herbert Chaston, toilet and perfumery manufacturer, living in Hapenden, allegedly married 10 years, with children by him aged 4-8, plus Denis Fulton, 11, stepson. There is no trace of a marriage of JDB Fulton and Marie Carew, but as she was born in Wexford, Ireland, this could be where a marriage happened. However again, Henry Herbert Chaston was divorved by his first wife, Maud, in 1901 (case set down on the very day he returned to England from New York. The charge was adultery with an unknown woman, striking her with clenched fist, and deserting her in 1898. The decree nisi was in April 1901, final in October 1901. Therefore a marriage of Henry to Marie ten years before April 1911 was not possible, and no registration is found until 1910, when Henry Herbert Chaston marries Marie Parry Jones (probably at a register office, no church event found). There is no divorce for JOHN DB Fulton or Marie Fulton. The probability is they were not married. Otherwise, she3 was committing bigamy and would hardly dare a high profile association with JDBH> When Henry H Chaston died in 1937, leavibng a small estate, his widow was Vera Isabella. Marie, allegedly dying in 1935. left no will in any of her known names. So probably JDB Fulton really was unmarried in 1911 - the son Dnis may or may not be his, but Maried Chaston would have no claim to be 'Lady Fulton', wven by bidding up his CBE. And no access to large funds, unless she found another man with money (at an advanced age for that sort of thing). Is it possible that the 'Lady Fulton' concerned was the hero's aged Mother, or an aunt, wishing to commemorate him? EVE