"Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message news:b45cj1Fov4sU1@mid.individual.net... > On 2013-07-10 14:10:22 +0000, Geoff Pearson said: > >> "Ian Goddard" <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message >> news:b455btFnbr8U1@mid.individual.net... >>> wtwjgc (Joe) wrote: >>> %>< >>>> >>>> I notice the Fulton Block is now a Grade II listed building. Perhaps >>>> English Heritage have more information about bequest? >>>> >>> >>> >>> This site does: >>> http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-1407287-fulton-block-raf-cosford-donington- >>> "HISTORY: Funded by Lady Fulton, the widow of one of the pioneers of >>> military aviation in Britain," >> >> It will be worth asking English Heritage for their evidence on Lady >> Fulton - listing is usually a careful process but sometimes apocryphal >> stories survive and then support themselves. If need be an FOI request >> will bring it all out. However, in parallel, find him a wife! > > Thanks for the suggestion, I have mailed them (I am running out of > organisations to ask!). > I'd love to find him a wife! but so far have failed miserably at that, nor > can I find a record of his parents marrying. > > -- > Tickettyboo > He might have had a Fulton brother or cousin who picked up a knighthood, or a wife who came as a Lady, having been the daughter of an Earl/Marquess/Viscount/Duke - as there is still no solid foundation for the widow Fulton anything is possible.

Tickettyboo wrote: > On 2013-07-10 13:19:57 +0000, Ian Goddard said: > >> wtwjgc (Joe) wrote: >> %>< >>> >>> I notice the Fulton Block is now a Grade II listed building. Perhaps >>> English Heritage have more information about bequest? >>> >> >> >> This site does: >> http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-1407287-fulton-block-raf-cosford-donington- >> >> >> "HISTORY: Funded by Lady Fulton, the widow of one of the pioneers of >> military aviation in Britain," > > Yes I have seen that, but at the bottom of the page it says > "Please do not contact BritishListedBuildings.co.uk for any queries > related to any individual listed building, planning permission related > to listed buildings or the listing process itself." > > So, I have mailed English Heritage and asked them. > > Can I repeat a suggestion I made earlier. Try to find a library with copies of Who's Who from the 1930s & see if there's a Lady Fulton in there. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

. > In there I have found a copy of a press release for the Defence Esates > Annual Report in 2000. It says the report features the Fulton block at > RAF Cosford. > <quote> > built in memory of Captain J D B Fulton, regarded as one of the > founders of what became the RAF, Captain Fulton commanded one of two > Royal Engineer Air Battalions, and was largely responsible for > reforming them as the Royal Flying Corps in 1912. > </quote> > (From other documents in the file, JDBF commanded No 2 Battalion, which > was the first 'heavier than air'[planes], Battalion - No 1 was > balloons.) > > <quote> > Fulton block was built in memory of Captain Fulton in 1938 at a cost of > £250,000 bequeathed by Lady Fulton. > </quote> > > > So he 'does' have official-ish confirmation that the block was named > for the man whose sword he owns. The Defence Estates seems to have been > replaced by the Defence Infrastructure Organisation (a rose by any > other name). I'll contact them and see if they can shed any light. > > JDBF's parents were Frederick George Fulton, a shipowner ( name from > CWGC entry and occupation from JBDF's entry in the Royal Military > Academy Woolwich Register) and Jane Elizabeth (maiden name not yet > known) who, according to the 1891 census, was a widow, born c 1848 > Yorkshire. Jane Elizabeth died in 1910 and JDBF was her executor. Her > probate entry shows she left £8282 10s 10d - which seems to be far > short of the £250,000 needed to build the block so I still don't know > what relation the Lady Fulton, who made the bequest, was to JDBF. There were two women actually entitled to the name and style of Lady Fulton; both were widows of judges, Sir James Forrest Fulton and Sir Robert Fulton. Sophia, the wife of Sir Forrest, Recorder of London, was a great one for good causes, but left only £3126 in 1928 and several children to share it. Sir Robert, an old Indian judge, left £101,775-14-2 in 1927 (and two children) His younger widow Margaret Edith, died in 1951 and left £18.991-18-7 even thern (and one surviving dau, apparently). I would think Margaret E is the best candidate for Lady Fulton, though there is no apparent close relationship. Perhaps the name attracted her, perhaps JD was a distant cousin of her husband's. Sir Robert was Scottish born (Edinburgh) and certainly the chances are that John Duncan Fulton's origins are Scots, even if his birth was in California. I have niot found any will for Frederick G so far, -possibly his assets were all in America and/or Scotland. EVE Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

On 7/10/2013 11:44 AM, eve@varneys.org.uk wrote: > . >> In there I have found a copy of a press release for the Defence Esates >> Annual Report in 2000. It says the report features the Fulton block at >> RAF Cosford. >> <quote> >> built in memory of Captain J D B Fulton, regarded as one of the >> founders of what became the RAF, Captain Fulton commanded one of two >> Royal Engineer Air Battalions, and was largely responsible for >> reforming them as the Royal Flying Corps in 1912. >> </quote> >> (From other documents in the file, JDBF commanded No 2 Battalion, which >> was the first 'heavier than air'[planes], Battalion - No 1 was >> balloons.) >> >> <quote> >> Fulton block was built in memory of Captain Fulton in 1938 at a cost of >> �250,000 bequeathed by Lady Fulton. >> </quote> >> >> >> So he 'does' have official-ish confirmation that the block was named >> for the man whose sword he owns. The Defence Estates seems to have been >> replaced by the Defence Infrastructure Organisation (a rose by any >> other name). I'll contact them and see if they can shed any light. >> >> JDBF's parents were Frederick George Fulton, a shipowner ( name from >> CWGC entry and occupation from JBDF's entry in the Royal Military >> Academy Woolwich Register) and Jane Elizabeth (maiden name not yet >> known) who, according to the 1891 census, was a widow, born c 1848 >> Yorkshire. Jane Elizabeth died in 1910 and JDBF was her executor. Her >> probate entry shows she left �8282 10s 10d - which seems to be far >> short of the �250,000 needed to build the block so I still don't know >> what relation the Lady Fulton, who made the bequest, was to JDBF. > > > There were two women actually entitled to the name and style of Lady > Fulton; both were widows of judges, Sir James Forrest Fulton and Sir Robert > Fulton. > Sophia, the wife of Sir Forrest, Recorder of London, was a great one for > good causes, but left only �3126 in 1928 and several children to share it. > Sir Robert, an old Indian judge, left �101,775-14-2 in 1927 (and two > children) His younger widow Margaret Edith, died in 1951 and left > �18.991-18-7 even thern (and one surviving dau, apparently). > I would think Margaret E is the best candidate for Lady Fulton, though there > is no apparent close relationship. Perhaps the name attracted her, perhaps > JD was a distant cousin of her husband's. Sir Robert was Scottish born > (Edinburgh) and certainly the chances are that John Duncan Fulton's origins > are Scots, even if his birth was in California. I have niot found any will for > Frederick G so far, -possibly his assets were all in America and/or Scotland. > EVE > Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians > Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society > Judge not least you be Judged I wonder how some of the people who judge their ancestors so harshly will themselves be judge in 100 years. Personally I believe that some of the people in charge and the things that they are doing will today will get extremely low marks by future historians.

On 2013-07-10 14:10:22 +0000, Geoff Pearson said: > "Ian Goddard" <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message > news:b455btFnbr8U1@mid.individual.net... >> wtwjgc (Joe) wrote: >> %>< >>> >>> I notice the Fulton Block is now a Grade II listed building. Perhaps >>> English Heritage have more information about bequest? >>> >> >> >> This site does: >> http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-1407287-fulton-block-raf-cosford-donington- >> >> >> "HISTORY: Funded by Lady Fulton, the widow of one of the pioneers of >> military aviation in Britain," > > It will be worth asking English Heritage for their evidence on Lady > Fulton - listing is usually a careful process but sometimes apocryphal > stories survive and then support themselves. If need be an FOI request > will bring it all out. However, in parallel, find him a wife! Thanks for the suggestion, I have mailed them (I am running out of organisations to ask!). I'd love to find him a wife! but so far have failed miserably at that, nor can I find a record of his parents marrying. -- Tickettyboo

On 2013-07-10 13:19:57 +0000, Ian Goddard said: > wtwjgc (Joe) wrote: > %>< >> >> I notice the Fulton Block is now a Grade II listed building. Perhaps >> English Heritage have more information about bequest? >> > > > This site does: > http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-1407287-fulton-block-raf-cosford-donington- > > > "HISTORY: Funded by Lady Fulton, the widow of one of the pioneers of > military aviation in Britain," Yes I have seen that, but at the bottom of the page it says "Please do not contact BritishListedBuildings.co.uk for any queries related to any individual listed building, planning permission related to listed buildings or the listing process itself." So, I have mailed English Heritage and asked them. -- Tickettyboo

"Ian Goddard" <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message news:b455btFnbr8U1@mid.individual.net... > wtwjgc (Joe) wrote: > %>< >> >> I notice the Fulton Block is now a Grade II listed building. Perhaps >> English Heritage have more information about bequest? >> > > > This site does: > http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-1407287-fulton-block-raf-cosford-donington- > > "HISTORY: Funded by Lady Fulton, the widow of one of the pioneers of > military aviation in Britain," > > > -- > Ian > > The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang > at austonley org uk It will be worth asking English Heritage for their evidence on Lady Fulton - listing is usually a careful process but sometimes apocryphal stories survive and then support themselves. If need be an FOI request will bring it all out. However, in parallel, find him a wife!

wtwjgc (Joe) wrote: %>< > > I notice the Fulton Block is now a Grade II listed building. Perhaps > English Heritage have more information about bequest? > This site does: http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-1407287-fulton-block-raf-cosford-donington- "HISTORY: Funded by Lady Fulton, the widow of one of the pioneers of military aviation in Britain," -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

On 2013-07-07 21:57:26 +0000, Tickettyboo said: Thank you to everyone who has pitched in to help, this discussion has gone beyond my original two query points and I am grateful for the input. I am blushing slightly here, my friend loaned me the (very full) file he has with the bits n pieces he has obtained, mostly from official sources. I really am impressed with what he has found, but its a bit higgedly-piggedly and I am trying to go through and list it in a 'time-line'. In there I have found a copy of a press release for the Defence Esates Annual Report in 2000. It says the report features the Fulton block at RAF Cosford. <quote> built in memory of Captain J D B Fulton, regarded as one of the founders of what became the RAF, Captain Fulton commanded one of two Royal Engineer Air Battalions, and was largely responsible for reforming them as the Royal Flying Corps in 1912. </quote> (From other documents in the file, JDBF commanded No 2 Battalion, which was the first 'heavier than air'[planes], Battalion - No 1 was balloons.) <quote> Fulton block was built in memory of Captain Fulton in 1938 at a cost of £250,000 bequeathed by Lady Fulton. </quote> So he 'does' have official-ish confirmation that the block was named for the man whose sword he owns. The Defence Estates seems to have been replaced by the Defence Infrastructure Organisation (a rose by any other name). I'll contact them and see if they can shed any light. JDBF's parents were Frederick George Fulton, a shipowner ( name from CWGC entry and occupation from JBDF's entry in the Royal Military Academy Woolwich Register) and Jane Elizabeth (maiden name not yet known) who, according to the 1891 census, was a widow, born c 1848 Yorkshire. Jane Elizabeth died in 1910 and JDBF was her executor. Her probate entry shows she left £8282 10s 10d - which seems to be far short of the £250,000 needed to build the block so I still don't know what relation the Lady Fulton, who made the bequest, was to JDBF. -- Tickettyboo

"Tahiri" <el@tyg.notforce9.co.uk> wrote in message news:1OqdnRUidehGmEDMnZ2dnUVZ8tidnZ2d@brightview.co.uk... > snip >> >> There was a Sarah Wildgoose of the right age, also from Darley Dale, who >> married a Joseph Woodhouse in Bakewell district (Matlock parish) on >> 20/4/1874. I could see that they had a child in the September so she was >> already pregnant when they married. If it was the same Sarah Wildgoose >> then she may have ignored the 7-year provision and got married as quickly >> as possible. Joseph may have even been the cause of the split from >> William Elliott. This Sarah never used any middlename but that could have >> been a vague attempt to obfuscate the connection. Unfortunately, that >> child later died as an infant. > snip >> > Have you tried contacting Kay Feltham of the Wildgoose one name study? > Her contact details will be at http://www.one-name.org/ . > Thanks for that suggestion Tahiri. I will try and contact Kay. I made a small error in my original post: Sarah Wildgoose married Joseph Woodhouse in September 1873 (not 1874) and their child was born in April 1874. However, it still means she was pregnant at the time of the marriage. In the 1871 census, there appears to be no matching Sarah Wildgoose. Hence, the fact that she declared herself to be a 31-year-old spinster on the marriage certificate is suspicious. Joseph, in contrast, was a 37-year-old widower. There are two potential Sarah's born around that time in Darley so I'm trying to track them to which one that marriage was for. Tony Proctor

"Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message news:b4260vF3phsU1@mid.individual.net... > On 2013-07-09 08:23:54 +0000, Peter Haizelden said: > >> On Sunday, July 7, 2013 10:57:26 PM UTC+1, Tickettyboo wrote: >>> Trying to help a friend who is researching the history of a previous>> >>> owner of a military sword, one John Duncan Bertie Fulton (1876-1915) >>> >> The Malvern register, 1865-1904, p.269 >> >> Fulton, John Duncan Bertie, Capt.; born 1876. Huntington — House. Son of >> Mrs. Fulton, 76 Longridge Road, London, S.W. Army Side. House Prefect. >> Left Mids. 1893. R.M.A., Woolwich ; Captain Royal Artillery 1902 ; served >> in the South African War. Parent's Address. >> >> Bertie Fulton, 4 year old, living at Bilton cum Harrogate in 1881 - but >> no family present >> RG11; Piece: 4327; Folio: 94; Page: 12 >> >> London, England, Electoral Registers 1889-1909 >> Jane Elizabeth Fulton 1889 Kensington and Chelsea South Division - 76 >> Longridge road >> >> She's not at that address for the 1901 census - RG13; Piece: 38; Folio: >> 86; Page: 5 >> >> Jane Elizabeth Fulton of Orchardlea, 34 The Avenue, Kew Gardens, Surrey, >> widow, died 26 June 1910. Probate London 27 July 1910 to John Duncan >> Bertie Fulton, Captain RA. >> >> England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 >> Name: Jane Elizabeth Fulton >> Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837 >> Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1910 >> Age at Death: 73 >> Registration District: Richmond >> Inferred County: Surrey >> Volume: 2a >> Page: 264 >> >> A little on the person I presume was appointed executor of J. D. B.'s >> will >> http://www.webspinners.org.uk/weddingtoncastle2/2012/attleborough%20aerodrome/Attleborough%20Airfield%20John%20Grech.pdf >> Capt Daniel Goodwin Connor born Dublin 02/12/1884, before joining the RFC >> had served >> with the R.A., RFA and RE. He learnt to fly at the Military School at >> Larkhill on Salisbury Plain in >> 1911 and was awarded his Royal Aero club licence on 07/04/11 number 54. >> He went on to >> serve with 3 and 5 Squadrons pre war and during the war he held a number >> of senior postions in >> the RFC as a Technical Officer. In 1920 as a Wing Commander he resigned >> and returned to the >> Army. >> Ottawa Citizen - Mar 25, 1939 >> Colonel Daniel Goodwin Connor, of Manch House, Co. Cork, has been >> ordained in holy orders in the Protestant Cathedral, Cork. The new >> clergymans family have been associated with Co Cork for over 300 years, >> and for generations have been associated with the legal profession. Col >> Connor served with distinction in the Great War. His wife, who was a Miss >> Roberts. daughter of a former vice-provost of Trinity College, Dublin, >> died last year. >> >> >> Peter Haizelden >> Genealogist and Family Historian >> www.haizelden.co.uk > > Thank you Peter, The Malvern Register is online at archive.org and I now > have copies of the entry for JDBF. I still don't have anything official > that confirms that the Fulton Block was named for JDB Fulton ( though > various snippets on the web indicate that it was). This info really helps > though as it excludes his mother from being the benefactor so I am back to > trying to find if he married and his wife was styled as Lady Fulton. I > will try the NA, to see if they can point me in the right direction. > -- > Tickettyboo > He is in the Ancestry Medal Card index under: John Darcas Bertel Fulton "Ineligible for medals - Home Service only" Adds nothing.

Tickettyboo <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote: > On 2013-07-07 21:57:26 +0000, Tickettyboo said: > > Thank you to everyone who has pitched in to help, this discussion has > gone beyond my original two query points and I am grateful for the input. > I am blushing slightly here, my friend loaned me the (very full) file he > has with the bits n pieces he has obtained, mostly from official sources. > I really am impressed with what he has found, but its a bit > higgedly-piggedly and I am trying to go through and list it in a 'time-line'. > In there I have found a copy of a press release for the Defence Esates > Annual Report in 2000. It says the report features the Fulton block at RAF Cosford. > <quote> > built in memory of Captain J D B Fulton, regarded as one of the founders > of what became the RAF, Captain Fulton commanded one of two Royal > Engineer Air Battalions, and was largely responsible for reforming them > as the Royal Flying Corps in 1912. > </quote> > (From other documents in the file, JDBF commanded No 2 Battalion, which > was the first 'heavier than air'[planes], Battalion - No 1 was balloons.) > > <quote> > Fulton block was built in memory of Captain Fulton in 1938 at a cost of > £250,000 bequeathed by Lady Fulton. > </quote> > > > So he 'does' have official-ish confirmation that the block was named for > the man whose sword he owns. The Defence Estates seems to have been > replaced by the Defence Infrastructure Organisation (a rose by any other > name). I'll contact them and see if they can shed any light. > > JDBF's parents were Frederick George Fulton, a shipowner ( name from CWGC > entry and occupation from JBDF's entry in the Royal Military Academy > Woolwich Register) and Jane Elizabeth (maiden name not yet known) who, > according to the 1891 census, was a widow, born c 1848 Yorkshire. Jane > Elizabeth died in 1910 and JDBF was her executor. Her probate entry shows > she left £8282 10s 10d - which seems to be far short of the £250,000 > needed to build the block so I still don't know what relation the Lady > Fulton, who made the bequest, was to JDBF. I notice the Fulton Block is now a Grade II listed building. Perhaps English Heritage have more information about bequest? -- wtwjgc (Joe) <http://welcometowakefield.org.uk/>

snip > > There was a Sarah Wildgoose of the right age, also from Darley Dale, who > married a Joseph Woodhouse in Bakewell district (Matlock parish) on > 20/4/1874. I could see that they had a child in the September so she was > already pregnant when they married. If it was the same Sarah Wildgoose > then she may have ignored the 7-year provision and got married as quickly > as possible. Joseph may have even been the cause of the split from William > Elliott. This Sarah never used any middlename but that could have been a > vague attempt to obfuscate the connection. Unfortunately, that child later > died as an infant. snip > Have you tried contacting Kay Feltham of the Wildgoose one name study? Her contact details will be at http://www.one-name.org/ .

In message <mailman.1.1373375616.7307.genbrit@rootsweb.com>, Piercefield <Piercefield@btinternet.com> writes: [] >Googling "Lady Fulton" gives at No. 1 "Fulton Block the worlds >oldest/largest/crapiest barrack block" Maybe the building itself has some sort of plaque on it somewhere, or inside, or even a "foundation" stone (I use quotes as the "foundation" stone for my school was actually over the front door)? It (plaque or stone) may have been painted over a few times, being military, and not obvious. As another has suggested, the 'masons might know ... and/or local papers around the time of the building's construction. > >... and lots of mentions for a horse and for a cocker spaniel, both >carrying that name ! > It might be - in fact I'd say it probably would - worth trying to find _why_ the horse and dog were named thus, though I'm not sure how one would go about finding out: if relatively recent, I guess you could ask the owners! -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf I don't think I would make a great rock star. I like my tea too much! - Jessica Raine (Jenny in "Call the Midwife"), in Radio Times 19-25 January 2013.

On Tue, 9 Jul 2013 13:55:56 +0100, "Tony Proctor" <tony@proctor_NoMore_SPAM.net> wrote: >I have encountered an unusual item of evidence and wanted to ask how other >people would interpret it. > >My ancestor William Elliott (b. c1841 Uttoxeter) married a Sarah Woods (b. >1859 Kensington) in Burton-on-Trent on 9/10/1881. I found that William was >previously married to a Sarah Elizabeth Wildgoose (b. c1841 Darley Dale). I >assumed that she had died, even though I could find no death record, but >something was troubling me: In the 1881 census William was lodging with his >second "wife", and their son William who was born in the January. However, >William didn't marry Sarah Woods until the October which is quite a long >time after their son's birth. > >I'd seen this pattern before, though, and started working on the theory that >he and his first wife had separated, and that he was waiting for 7-years of >complete separation (as provided for in the Offences Against the Person Act >1861, section.57) to pass. > The presumption of death after 7 years was a Common Law matter with consequential effects on associated marriages, inheritance etc. The 1861 Act didn't provide that presumption but just confirmed that the Act did not over-ride the existing law. >If true then he separated from Sarah Wildgoose >around October 1874, and his move from Derbyshire to Staffordshire may have >been part of the plan. > >There was a Sarah Wildgoose of the right age, also from Darley Dale, who >married a Joseph Woodhouse in Bakewell district (Matlock parish) on >20/4/1874. I could see that they had a child in the September so she was >already pregnant when they married. If it was the same Sarah Wildgoose then >she may have ignored the 7-year provision and got married as quickly as >possible. Joseph may have even been the cause of the split from William >Elliott. This Sarah never used any middlename but that could have been a >vague attempt to obfuscate the connection. Unfortunately, that child later >died as an infant. > >Everything seemed to fit together in the theory but I needed some evidence >that clinched it. I applied for a copy of this marriage to Joseph Woodhouse >and was rather surprised to find all the bride's-father fields crossed out, >with nothing recorded. Could it be that this was a different Sarah who >simply didn't know her father, or that the marriage was really bigamous and >she wanted muddy the trail? > > Tony Proctor >

On 08/07/2013 17:31, Charlie wrote: > On Sat, 06 Jul 2013 17:49:53 +0100, eve@varneys.org.uk wrote: >> generaqlly they were better fed, better housed, better cared for medically, >> and probably less exposed to physical and moral dangers than they would >> have been, or actually had been, outside. > > Sorry Eve, this is complete nonsense. Did you ever meet, speak to or know > any of those peeople who actually 'enjoyed the hospitality' of a workhouse? > I did, and their dread of ever having to return there has stayed in my > memory for many years. No Charlie, Eve's quite correct. The inmates had access to far better medical treatment (remember, this is relative, not absolute!) than they could have received outside. They were certainly better fed than someone who can't afford to legally obtain food. And the housing, admittedly Spartan in the extreme, was dry and not as harsh as the plight of the homeless. Eve was quite careful with her words. What she did _not_ assert was that inmates' mental and emotional wellbeings were treated well. They were not. Your workhouse inmate's reaction was the *exact* response the Governments of the time were seeking to create. Being admitted to the workhouse was *supposed* to be something emphatically to be avoided until all other resorts were exhausted. Yes, it was a safety net, but it was set pretty close to the floor, and it still hurt when you used it. I had distant relatives admitted, according to records from the London Metropolitan Archive. In almost all cases, they were mothers about to give birth, who were availing themselves of the workhouse hospitals - the only decent perinatal healthcare open to them - and their existing children, for whom they could not care whilst in labour and post-partum recovery. The stays were never more than a couple of months, and I can well appreciate why. The others were elderly folk in the last days of their lives. Jon -- WATCH OUT FOR THE SPAM BLOCK! Replace 'deadspam' with 'green-lines' to reply in email!

"Piercefield" <Piercefield@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1.1373375616.7307.genbrit@rootsweb.com... > On Sunday, July 7, 2013 10:57:26 PM UTC+1, Tickettyboo wrote: > >> John Duncan Bertie Fulton (1876-1915) >> he was amongst those "To be Ordinary >> Members of the Military Division of the Third Class, or Companions, >> of >> the Most Honourable Order of the Bath". >> Okay, so that is confirmed, but would this entitle his wife/widow to >> style herself as 'Lady Fulton'? > > Googling "John Duncan Fulton" gives two results - at findagrave and > salisburyinquests. > > http://www.thepeerage.com/i1312.htm#s17450 > does not give a "John Duncan Fulton" - the only "Lord Fulton" given > there is John Scott Fulton, given a Life Peerage in 1966, and there is > no record there of a wife. > > The Jane Fulton (d. 1910) given by Peter Haizelden (Tuesday, July 09, > 2013 9:23 AM) would probably have been Bertie's mother. > > Googling "Lady Fulton" gives at No. 1 "Fulton Block the worlds > oldest/largest/crapiest barrack block" > > ... and lots of mentions for a horse and for a cocker spaniel, both > carrying that name ! > I'm expecting "Bertie" to be a surname used as a forename - common in Scotland. It may indicate the maiden name of the mother or grandmother. There are lots of Bertie families. Of id Ms Fulton was unmarried, Bertie may be the surname of the father, also common.

On 7/9/2013 8:55 AM, Tony Proctor wrote: > I have encountered an unusual item of evidence and wanted to ask how other > people would interpret it. > > My ancestor William Elliott (b. c1841 Uttoxeter) married a Sarah Woods (b. > 1859 Kensington) in Burton-on-Trent on 9/10/1881. I found that William was > previously married to a Sarah Elizabeth Wildgoose (b. c1841 Darley Dale). I > assumed that she had died, even though I could find no death record, but > something was troubling me: In the 1881 census William was lodging with his > second "wife", and their son William who was born in the January. However, > William didn't marry Sarah Woods until the October which is quite a long > time after their son's birth. > > I'd seen this pattern before, though, and started working on the theory that > he and his first wife had separated, and that he was waiting for 7-years of > complete separation (as provided for in the Offences Against the Person Act > 1861, section.57) to pass. If true then he separated from Sarah Wildgoose > around October 1874, and his move from Derbyshire to Staffordshire may have > been part of the plan. > > There was a Sarah Wildgoose of the right age, also from Darley Dale, who > married a Joseph Woodhouse in Bakewell district (Matlock parish) on > 20/4/1874. I could see that they had a child in the September so she was > already pregnant when they married. If it was the same Sarah Wildgoose then > she may have ignored the 7-year provision and got married as quickly as > possible. Joseph may have even been the cause of the split from William > Elliott. This Sarah never used any middlename but that could have been a > vague attempt to obfuscate the connection. Unfortunately, that child later > died as an infant. > > Everything seemed to fit together in the theory but I needed some evidence > that clinched it. I applied for a copy of this marriage to Joseph Woodhouse > and was rather surprised to find all the bride's-father fields crossed out, > with nothing recorded. Could it be that this was a different Sarah who > simply didn't know her father, or that the marriage was really bigamous and > she wanted muddy the trail? > > Tony Proctor > > I had a similar situation. X is living with Y and Girl 1 and Boy 1 in the 1860 census. In 1870 X is living with Z and Boy 2 and Boy 3. I learned that Girl 1 had died in 1861. For years I assumed that Y and Boy 1 had died in the Civil War or between 1861 and 1865, slightly before Z would have become pregnant with Boy 2. After years of researching this senario I found that Z had married in the late 1870's (Y and Z both died in the early 1870's) I am now working to get copies of their divorice papers from 1867. It now looks like Y threw X out aftet he got Y pregnant. One of those case where we in the 21st Century do not make judgements of the actions of our ancestors.

I have encountered an unusual item of evidence and wanted to ask how other people would interpret it. My ancestor William Elliott (b. c1841 Uttoxeter) married a Sarah Woods (b. 1859 Kensington) in Burton-on-Trent on 9/10/1881. I found that William was previously married to a Sarah Elizabeth Wildgoose (b. c1841 Darley Dale). I assumed that she had died, even though I could find no death record, but something was troubling me: In the 1881 census William was lodging with his second "wife", and their son William who was born in the January. However, William didn't marry Sarah Woods until the October which is quite a long time after their son's birth. I'd seen this pattern before, though, and started working on the theory that he and his first wife had separated, and that he was waiting for 7-years of complete separation (as provided for in the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, section.57) to pass. If true then he separated from Sarah Wildgoose around October 1874, and his move from Derbyshire to Staffordshire may have been part of the plan. There was a Sarah Wildgoose of the right age, also from Darley Dale, who married a Joseph Woodhouse in Bakewell district (Matlock parish) on 20/4/1874. I could see that they had a child in the September so she was already pregnant when they married. If it was the same Sarah Wildgoose then she may have ignored the 7-year provision and got married as quickly as possible. Joseph may have even been the cause of the split from William Elliott. This Sarah never used any middlename but that could have been a vague attempt to obfuscate the connection. Unfortunately, that child later died as an infant. Everything seemed to fit together in the theory but I needed some evidence that clinched it. I applied for a copy of this marriage to Joseph Woodhouse and was rather surprised to find all the bride's-father fields crossed out, with nothing recorded. Could it be that this was a different Sarah who simply didn't know her father, or that the marriage was really bigamous and she wanted muddy the trail? Tony Proctor

"Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message news:b4260vF3phsU1@mid.individual.net... > On 2013-07-09 08:23:54 +0000, Peter Haizelden said: > >> On Sunday, July 7, 2013 10:57:26 PM UTC+1, Tickettyboo wrote: >>> Trying to help a friend who is researching the history of a previous>> >>> owner of a military sword, one John Duncan Bertie Fulton (1876-1915) >>> >> The Malvern register, 1865-1904, p.269 >> >> Fulton, John Duncan Bertie, Capt.; born 1876. Huntington — House. Son of >> Mrs. Fulton, 76 Longridge Road, London, S.W. Army Side. House Prefect. >> Left Mids. 1893. R.M.A., Woolwich ; Captain Royal Artillery 1902 ; served >> in the South African War. Parent's Address. >> >> Bertie Fulton, 4 year old, living at Bilton cum Harrogate in 1881 - but >> no family present >> RG11; Piece: 4327; Folio: 94; Page: 12 >> >> London, England, Electoral Registers 1889-1909 >> Jane Elizabeth Fulton 1889 Kensington and Chelsea South Division - 76 >> Longridge road >> >> She's not at that address for the 1901 census - RG13; Piece: 38; Folio: >> 86; Page: 5 >> >> Jane Elizabeth Fulton of Orchardlea, 34 The Avenue, Kew Gardens, Surrey, >> widow, died 26 June 1910. Probate London 27 July 1910 to John Duncan >> Bertie Fulton, Captain RA. >> >> England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 >> Name: Jane Elizabeth Fulton >> Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837 >> Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1910 >> Age at Death: 73 >> Registration District: Richmond >> Inferred County: Surrey >> Volume: 2a >> Page: 264 >> >> A little on the person I presume was appointed executor of J. D. B.'s >> will >> http://www.webspinners.org.uk/weddingtoncastle2/2012/attleborough%20aerodrome/Attleborough%20Airfield%20John%20Grech.pdf >> Capt Daniel Goodwin Connor born Dublin 02/12/1884, before joining the RFC >> had served >> with the R.A., RFA and RE. He learnt to fly at the Military School at >> Larkhill on Salisbury Plain in >> 1911 and was awarded his Royal Aero club licence on 07/04/11 number 54. >> He went on to >> serve with 3 and 5 Squadrons pre war and during the war he held a number >> of senior postions in >> the RFC as a Technical Officer. In 1920 as a Wing Commander he resigned >> and returned to the >> Army. >> Ottawa Citizen - Mar 25, 1939 >> Colonel Daniel Goodwin Connor, of Manch House, Co. Cork, has been >> ordained in holy orders in the Protestant Cathedral, Cork. The new >> clergymans family have been associated with Co Cork for over 300 years, >> and for generations have been associated with the legal profession. Col >> Connor served with distinction in the Great War. His wife, who was a Miss >> Roberts. daughter of a former vice-provost of Trinity College, Dublin, >> died last year. >> >> >> Peter Haizelden >> Genealogist and Family Historian >> www.haizelden.co.uk > > Thank you Peter, The Malvern Register is online at archive.org and I now > have copies of the entry for JDBF. I still don't have anything official > that confirms that the Fulton Block was named for JDB Fulton ( though > various snippets on the web indicate that it was). This info really helps > though as it excludes his mother from being the benefactor so I am back to > trying to find if he married and his wife was styled as Lady Fulton. I > will try the NA, to see if they can point me in the right direction. > -- > Tickettyboo > I did a search on Lady Fulton Benefactor and came up with one who worked with the Greater London Council for the Blind in the 1930s. I guess that there could easily have been another Lord Fulton - another one was the Chairman of the BBC and produced a report which changed the Civil Service. But if there were a Sir $$ Fulton that will be harder to find.