In message <b4al0sFsvhcU1@mid.individual.net>, Geoff Pearson <gspearson1647@hotmail.com> writes: [] >The use of Lady Fulton without a forename suggests she was the wife of >someone. If it had been her own title it would be normal to give her >forename cf Lady Antonia Fraser daughter of the Earl of Longford and >Lady Thatcher, wife of Sir Denis Thatcher Baronet. Margaret Thatcher >later became a life peer and was properly called Baroness Thatcher. For >Thatcher, neither produced Lady Margaret Thatcher. So I guess Lady >Fulton has to be found by finding a Sir or Lord Fulton. Unfortunately, "suggests" is the right word to use here: these matters of etiquette are often not known (I didn't, though will try to remember from your example - though I'd forgotten or didn't know Dennis was a baronet). This lack of knowledge almost certainly extends to journalists, especially on smaller papers, so I don't think one can _rely_ on how a name is given, though it can indeed suggest. > >In my family it was always said my great-grandfather was a partner of >William Morris in his cycle shop and they parted when Morris decided to >build new-fangled cars. There was no truth in it, except they lived in >the same street in Cowley - but the story grew because no one checked. >We still have nothing to connect JDBF to a Lady Fulton or RAF Cosford. (I just walked past the blue plaque that said William Morris "lived and made bicycles here" last night [I'm visiting my brother in Oxford for the weekend]. Ordinary house in an ordinary street - or is now, anyway.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf What is the point of a really good degree, if you're just like Harold Wilson? That really cut me down to size. - Sister Wendy Becket, on DIDs 2012-12-16 (She, like he, got one of the best degrees at Oxford in her year.)

On 08/07/2013 11:21, Tickettyboo wrote: > Its just the family type bits I am looking at, which are proving to be > difficult. The fact that he was born in San Francisco was interesting, > but unproductive so far in the way of records to verify that event. He > did attend school in England , at Malvern, but I am still trawling > through to see if I can spot him/ his parents in passenger lists to and > from the US. We do have a copy of his death cert, but apart from the > address no clues to family there. His CWGC entry says he was the son of > Frederick George Fulton - no mention of a Mum or a wife. The Malvern Register: John Duncan Bertie Fulton; born 1876; son of Mrs. Fulton of 76 Longridge Road, London, S. W. Entgered May 1890. Huntington House; Army Side. House Prefect. Left Midsummer 1893. Passed into Woolwich; Royal Artillery. He appears in the 1891 census at Malvern College, Worcestershire, then aged 14 and given as born in California, but a British Subject. That he was in the Army Side at Malvern shows his family or sponsor also had army connections, probably in the R.A. His mother, J Elizabeth Fulton (indexed as Tulton on FindMyPast) was a widow aged 43 in 1891, living on her own means and born in Yorkshire. She had a cook and two housemaids living with her at 76 Longdridge Road, Kensington, London. Jane Elizabeth Fulton died in 1910 leaving £8,000 and her executor was John Duncan Bertie Fulton, Capt. R.A. She was aged 73 and had aged 10 years since the 1891 census. John Duncan Bertie Fulton died in 1916 leaving £6,000. Bertie Fulton sailed from Liverpool and arrived in New York on 20 Dec 1880 on the ship City of Chester, in which he was classed as an American Citizen aged 4. He was with his 30-year-old mother, Mrs Fulton, on the main deck. Bertie was back in England in time for the 1881 census, when he was living in Victoria Avenue, Harrogate, Yorkshire, at Straylea Villa, with 3 servants and Edmund Faber, a 44-year-old lodger, who was a banker born in France, but a British Subject. Bertie is given as born in California. Visiting, were Walter Faber, aged 24, a Lieut in the Royal Artillery who was born in Cockfosters, Hertfordshire, and John Davison, aged 21, also a Lieut R.A. Bertie had no family living with him at the time. Walter Vavasour Faber (1857-1928) was M.P. for Andover 1906-1918. He was educated at Malvern and served in the R.A. as Captain. He was the brother of Edmund Beckett Faber, 1st Baron Faber, also an M.P. for Andover 1901-1905. They were the sons of Charles Wilson Faber (D.L. of Hertfordshire) and Mary Beckett, daughter of Sir Edmund Beckett, 4th Baronet. Charles Wilson Faber died in 1878 leaving £60,000, quite a fortune in those days. He was then of Brighton, Sussex, but died in San Remo, Italy, and his executor was Edmund Beckett Faber of Leeds. In 1861, the Faber brothers were living at Northaw House in Hertfordshire with their family, including their sister, Elizabeth Faber, then aged 20 and born in North Deighton, Yorkshire and their brother, John D B Faber, aged 7. She was unmarried aged 30 and living with her parents in Northaw House in 1871. John David Beverly Faber was also there, a scholar aged 17. She was baptised at Kirk Deighton, Yorkshire on 27th April 1841, born 27 Dec 1840. She married Mortimer Sackville-West (Baron Sackville) in 1873 at Northaw and they both died in 1888, which eliminates her as the mother of John DB Fulton. I can find no evidence for the existence of a Frederick George Fulton, a George Frederick Fulton, a George Fulton or a Frederick Fulton. No one suitable appears on censuses in Scotland, England, the USA or Canada. Neither does anyone suitable appear on UK birth, marriage or death registers. Only two Lady Fultons were of social note in 1929 (Whittaker's Peerage), both of whom were widows and have been mentioned by others: Lady Fulton (Sophia Browne, daughter of John B. Nicholson) married 1875 Sir Forrest Fulton, Kt. Bach., K.C., Recorder of London etc, died 1925 Lady Fulton (Margaret Edith, daughter of Brigade-Surgeon R. G. Mathew, I.M.S.) married 1887 Sir Robert Fulton Fulton, Kt. Bach., I.C.S. ret., sometime a Pulsne Judge, Bengal High Cout (died 1927). Residence: 7 Sloane Gardens, London SW1

On 05/07/2013 11:44, Phil C. wrote: > On 20/06/2013 14:40, Jenny M Benson wrote: >> On 19/06/2013 17:27, Lesley Robertson wrote: >>> >>> It's the tears on demand that's made me very selective when watching >>> "Who Do You Think You Are".. I'm going to have to watch this on the iPad >>> since my cable company doesn't get the ITV stable, so it's going to have >>> to be good to keep me watching... >>> Thanks for the reminder, though, >> >> I thank Roy for the WARNING rather than the Reminder! The amount of >> sentimental tosh and ridiculous tears that we get in WDYTYA drives me >> mad enough, but it sounds as though the proportion of slush to good >> stuff in this programme will be far too high for me. > > I've just watched an episode, out of curiosity. I it was quite good, as > a comedy. I'd just taken a sleeping pill, so not concentrating, but I > recall one luvvie wanting to rage against the system and make his > ancestor into a Working Class Hero. Yes, he was ranting at how disgusting and unfeeling it all was and something should have been done. Something was done, actually. The Welfare State was created to alleviate and better organise such poverty. His taxes pay for it, but perhaps he didn't notice.

On 08/07/2013 17:31, Charlie wrote: > On Sat, 06 Jul 2013 17:49:53 +0100, eve@varneys.org.uk wrote: > >> It just concerns me that so few actors and show biz people seem ever to >> have learnt any history. > > How very true. > >> Common sense would show that people generally didn't go into the >> workhouse unless their home conditions were really desperate, > > Also true. > >> generaqlly they were better fed, better housed, better cared for medically, >> and probably less exposed to physical and moral dangers than they would >> have been, or actually had been, outside. > > Sorry Eve, this is complete nonsense. Did you ever meet, speak to or know > any of those peeople who actually 'enjoyed the hospitality' of a workhouse? > I did, and their dread of ever having to return there has stayed in my > memory for many years. The utter fear of those institutions terrjfied those > who had not been interred in what were effectively prisons for the poor, > but who had relative who had suffered. Do you think it was fun for mothers > to be forcibly separated from their children, maybe never to see them > again? Likewise brothers and sisters, long time husbands and wives, all > forced into institutional uniforms, effectively prison clothes. All this > was just a bit of light rekief I suppose. Eve did not suggest the Workhouse was a holiday camp. She suggests that if they had not gone in, then they would have starved to death outside. Within the Workhouse, they were at least fed and had access to medical care, neither of which they had access to on the outside, unless they had money. Which they didn't. >> True, they lacked television, mod >> cons, designer clothes, and the liberty to misbehave, start a boy band and >> (save the mark) be a Selebritty - but most would have lacked these >> opportunites outside the workhouse too. > > What a ridiculous strawman argument! Quite inappropriate coming from > someone I've long regarded as a professional. To use the vernacular, a load > of old cobblers! Then you fail to understand the modern analogy. Nowadays, the "Workhouse Class" has free housing, food, utility bills, Nike trainers, 42" TVs, etc, and cannot help themselves from breeding more of the same which will make this nation's problems even worse in 20 - no - 15 years' time. The whole idea of the austerity and shame of the workhouse was to keep them out of there by their own endeavour. Some learnt their lesson. Others went in by sheer bad luck or health and made sure they never went in again. Yet others dispersed their genes until the problem is now out of control. > [more nonsense snipped] > . >> EVE >> >> >> Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians >> Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society > > Oh dear! :-( >

eve@varneys.org.uk wrote: > . >> In there I have found a copy of a press release for the Defence Esates >> Annual Report in 2000. It says the report features the Fulton block at >> RAF Cosford. >> <quote> >> built in memory of Captain J D B Fulton, regarded as one of the >> founders of what became the RAF, Captain Fulton commanded one of two >> Royal Engineer Air Battalions, and was largely responsible for >> reforming them as the Royal Flying Corps in 1912. >> </quote> >> (From other documents in the file, JDBF commanded No 2 Battalion, which >> was the first 'heavier than air'[planes], Battalion - No 1 was >> balloons.) >> >> <quote> >> Fulton block was built in memory of Captain Fulton in 1938 at a cost of >> £250,000 bequeathed by Lady Fulton. >> </quote> >> >> >> So he 'does' have official-ish confirmation that the block was named >> for the man whose sword he owns. The Defence Estates seems to have been >> replaced by the Defence Infrastructure Organisation (a rose by any >> other name). I'll contact them and see if they can shed any light. >> >> JDBF's parents were Frederick George Fulton, a shipowner ( name from >> CWGC entry and occupation from JBDF's entry in the Royal Military >> Academy Woolwich Register) and Jane Elizabeth (maiden name not yet >> known) who, according to the 1891 census, was a widow, born c 1848 >> Yorkshire. Jane Elizabeth died in 1910 and JDBF was her executor. Her >> probate entry shows she left £8282 10s 10d - which seems to be far >> short of the £250,000 needed to build the block so I still don't know >> what relation the Lady Fulton, who made the bequest, was to JDBF. > > > There were two women actually entitled to the name and style of Lady > Fulton; both were widows of judges, Sir James Forrest Fulton and Sir Robert > Fulton. > Sophia, the wife of Sir Forrest, Recorder of London, was a great one for > good causes, but left only £3126 in 1928 and several children to share it. > Sir Robert, an old Indian judge, left £101,775-14-2 in 1927 (and two > children) His younger widow Margaret Edith, died in 1951 and left > £18.991-18-7 even thern (and one surviving dau, apparently). > I would think Margaret E is the best candidate for Lady Fulton, though there > is no apparent close relationship. Perhaps the name attracted her, perhaps > JD was a distant cousin of her husband's. Sir Robert was Scottish born > (Edinburgh) and certainly the chances are that John Duncan Fulton's origins > are Scots, even if his birth was in California. I have niot found any will for > Frederick G so far, -possibly his assets were all in America and/or Scotland. > EVE > Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians > Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society > An article here http://www.thefreelibrary.com/RAF+Cosford+block+wins+military+honour%3B+The+Fulton+Block+at+RAF...-a066658803 says that the money to build the Fulton Block at Cosford in 1939 was 'bequeathed to the RAF by Lady Fulton' - if it's accurate, this would indicate that she died prior to the construction of the building -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

"Anne Chambers" <anne@privacy.net> wrote in message news:b4a9rcFqgvmU1@mid.individual.net... > eve@varneys.org.uk wrote: >> . >>> In there I have found a copy of a press release for the Defence Esates >>> Annual Report in 2000. It says the report features the Fulton block at >>> RAF Cosford. >>> <quote> >>> built in memory of Captain J D B Fulton, regarded as one of the >>> founders of what became the RAF, Captain Fulton commanded one of two >>> Royal Engineer Air Battalions, and was largely responsible for >>> reforming them as the Royal Flying Corps in 1912. >>> </quote> >>> (From other documents in the file, JDBF commanded No 2 Battalion, which >>> was the first 'heavier than air'[planes], Battalion - No 1 was >>> balloons.) >>> >>> <quote> >>> Fulton block was built in memory of Captain Fulton in 1938 at a cost of >>> £250,000 bequeathed by Lady Fulton. >>> </quote> >>> >>> >>> So he 'does' have official-ish confirmation that the block was named >>> for the man whose sword he owns. The Defence Estates seems to have been >>> replaced by the Defence Infrastructure Organisation (a rose by any >>> other name). I'll contact them and see if they can shed any light. >>> >>> JDBF's parents were Frederick George Fulton, a shipowner ( name from >>> CWGC entry and occupation from JBDF's entry in the Royal Military >>> Academy Woolwich Register) and Jane Elizabeth (maiden name not yet >>> known) who, according to the 1891 census, was a widow, born c 1848 >>> Yorkshire. Jane Elizabeth died in 1910 and JDBF was her executor. Her >>> probate entry shows she left £8282 10s 10d - which seems to be far >>> short of the £250,000 needed to build the block so I still don't know >>> what relation the Lady Fulton, who made the bequest, was to JDBF. >> >> >> There were two women actually entitled to the name and style of Lady >> Fulton; both were widows of judges, Sir James Forrest Fulton and Sir >> Robert >> Fulton. >> Sophia, the wife of Sir Forrest, Recorder of London, was a great one for >> good causes, but left only £3126 in 1928 and several children to share >> it. >> Sir Robert, an old Indian judge, left £101,775-14-2 in 1927 (and two >> children) His younger widow Margaret Edith, died in 1951 and left >> £18.991-18-7 even thern (and one surviving dau, apparently). >> I would think Margaret E is the best candidate for Lady Fulton, though >> there >> is no apparent close relationship. Perhaps the name attracted her, >> perhaps >> JD was a distant cousin of her husband's. Sir Robert was Scottish born >> (Edinburgh) and certainly the chances are that John Duncan Fulton's >> origins >> are Scots, even if his birth was in California. I have niot found any >> will for >> Frederick G so far, -possibly his assets were all in America and/or >> Scotland. >> EVE >> Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians >> Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society >> > An article here > http://www.thefreelibrary.com/RAF+Cosford+block+wins+military+honour%3B+The+Fulton+Block+at+RAF...-a066658803 > says that the money to build the Fulton Block at Cosford in 1939 was > 'bequeathed to the RAF by Lady Fulton' - if it's accurate, this would > indicate that she died prior to the construction of the building > > -- > Anne Chambers > South Australia > > anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com The use of Lady Fulton without a forename suggests she was the wife of someone. If it had been her own title it would be normal to give her forename cf Lady Antonia Fraser daughter of the Earl of Longford and Lady Thatcher, wife of Sir Denis Thatcher Baronet. Margaret Thatcher later became a life peer and was properly called Baroness Thatcher. For Thatcher, neither produced Lady Margaret Thatcher. So I guess Lady Fulton has to be found by finding a Sir or Lord Fulton. In my family it was always said my great-grandfather was a partner of William Morris in his cycle shop and they parted when Morris decided to build new-fangled cars. There was no truth in it, except they lived in the same street in Cowley - but the story grew because no one checked. We still have nothing to connect JDBF to a Lady Fulton or RAF Cosford.

<eve@varneys.org.uk> wrote in message news:mailman.2.1373478200.26647.genbrit@rootsweb.com... > . >> In there I have found a copy of a press release for the Defence Esates >> Annual Report in 2000. It says the report features the Fulton block at >> RAF Cosford. >> <quote> >> built in memory of Captain J D B Fulton, regarded as one of the >> founders of what became the RAF, Captain Fulton commanded one of two >> Royal Engineer Air Battalions, and was largely responsible for >> reforming them as the Royal Flying Corps in 1912. >> </quote> >> (From other documents in the file, JDBF commanded No 2 Battalion, which >> was the first 'heavier than air'[planes], Battalion - No 1 was >> balloons.) >> >> <quote> >> Fulton block was built in memory of Captain Fulton in 1938 at a cost of >> £250,000 bequeathed by Lady Fulton. >> </quote> >> >> >> So he 'does' have official-ish confirmation that the block was named >> for the man whose sword he owns. The Defence Estates seems to have been >> replaced by the Defence Infrastructure Organisation (a rose by any >> other name). I'll contact them and see if they can shed any light. >> >> JDBF's parents were Frederick George Fulton, a shipowner ( name from >> CWGC entry and occupation from JBDF's entry in the Royal Military >> Academy Woolwich Register) and Jane Elizabeth (maiden name not yet >> known) who, according to the 1891 census, was a widow, born c 1848 >> Yorkshire. Jane Elizabeth died in 1910 and JDBF was her executor. Her >> probate entry shows she left £8282 10s 10d - which seems to be far >> short of the £250,000 needed to build the block so I still don't know >> what relation the Lady Fulton, who made the bequest, was to JDBF. > > > There were two women actually entitled to the name and style of Lady > Fulton; both were widows of judges, Sir James Forrest Fulton and Sir > Robert > Fulton. > Sophia, the wife of Sir Forrest, Recorder of London, was a great one for > good causes, but left only £3126 in 1928 and several children to share it. > Sir Robert, an old Indian judge, left £101,775-14-2 in 1927 (and two > children) His younger widow Margaret Edith, died in 1951 and left > £18.991-18-7 even thern (and one surviving dau, apparently). > I would think Margaret E is the best candidate for Lady Fulton, though > there > is no apparent close relationship. Perhaps the name attracted her, perhaps > JD was a distant cousin of her husband's. Sir Robert was Scottish born > (Edinburgh) and certainly the chances are that John Duncan Fulton's > origins > are Scots, even if his birth was in California. I have niot found any will > for > Frederick G so far, -possibly his assets were all in America and/or > Scotland. > EVE > Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians > Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society > In the Daily Mail archive trial I've found regular references to a Lady Fulton in the Court & Social column from 1921 through to 1937 who was involved in charitable activities including the Greater London Council for the Blind as mentioned by Geoff Pearson. A 11 February 1922 mention has "Sir Robert and Lady Fulton", supporting the notion that Margaret Edith is the most likely candidate for RAF Cosford's Lady Fulton. There is a resumé of JDBF's son Denis here http://theauxiliaries.com/men-alphabetical/men-f/fulton-dbc/fulton.html -- Martin

There is a discussion on a Lancashire list about the origin of an area of Bury called Freetown. The earliest newspaper reference that I have found is 1811. Manchester Mercury - Tuesday 12 March 1811 Lot 2 - The bankrupt's estate, right, title and interest of and in a house, situate at Free-Town within the parish of Bury aforesaid, the purchaser of this lot to be subject to all rules, orders, regulations, conditions and agreements now or hereafter to be made by the subscribers to the building of a certain number of houses at Free-Town aforesaid, and after the whole houses at Free-Town aforesaid are built, the purchaser may have a lease at his own expense, for the of 900 years and upwards, subject a small yearly rent. I wonder if anyone has come across similar areas elsewhere and if anyone has any ideas on what they were. I am wondering if it was some sort of early version of various schemes used now to encourage development in an area.

Geoff Pearson wrote: > > "Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message > news:b467o3F8crU1@mid.individual.net... >> Connected , supplementary query. I have an entry from the London >> Gazette (well I have quite a few for this man) >> April 15 1902, page 2503 >> >> The undermentioned Second Lieutenants to be Lieutenants >> Jocelyn F. de F. Shaw, vice J.D.B. Fulton, promoted. Dated 27th >> January, 1902 >> >> I don't know why there are two names and what the 'vice' refers to. >> Could someone explain? >> >> ( I am not about to start Googling for 'vice' at my time of life!) >> -- >> Tickettyboo >> > > Vice does mean in place of cf Viceroy (of India)" in place of the King". > The meaning today of deputy - vice-chairman is modern and not quite right. Or, as I'm watching yesterday's cricket ATM, vice-captain. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

On 11/07/2013 00:06, Tickettyboo wrote: > Connected , supplementary query. I have an entry from the London Gazette > (well I have quite a few for this man) > April 15 1902, page 2503 > > The undermentioned Second Lieutenants to be Lieutenants > Jocelyn F. de F. Shaw, vice J.D.B. Fulton, promoted. Dated 27th January, > 1902 > > I don't know why there are two names and what the 'vice' refers to. > Could someone explain? > > ( I am not about to start Googling for 'vice' at my time of life!) Jocelyn has been promoted to the vacancy created by Fulton's promotion. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

On Wednesday, July 10, 2013 5:50:46 PM UTC+1, Ian Goddard wrote: > Tickettyboo wrote: > > > On 2013-07-10 13:19:57 +0000, Ian Goddard said: > > > > > >> wtwjgc (Joe) wrote: > > >> %>< > > >>> > > >>> I notice the Fulton Block is now a Grade II listed building. Perhaps > > >>> English Heritage have more information about bequest? > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> This site does: > > >> http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-1407287-fulton-block-raf-cosford-donington- > > >> > > >> > > >> "HISTORY: Funded by Lady Fulton, the widow of one of the pioneers of > > >> military aviation in Britain," > > > > > > Yes I have seen that, but at the bottom of the page it says > > > "Please do not contact BritishListedBuildings.co.uk for any queries > > > related to any individual listed building, planning permission related > > > to listed buildings or the listing process itself." > > > > > > So, I have mailed English Heritage and asked them. > > > > > > > > > > Can I repeat a suggestion I made earlier. Try to find a library with > > copies of Who's Who from the 1930s & see if there's a Lady Fulton in there. > > > > -- > > Ian > > > > The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang > > at austonley org uk Unfortunately, it's a misnomer to assume everyone of rank or profession is included in Who's Who. The publication has always invited those listed and not according to their rank in Society – think of all those pop musicians and film stars. Therefore the widows of knights, baronets, and peers were not necessarily included. The opposite is so of Kelly's Handbook which lists the peerage, knightage, and baronetage - including the widows - bishops and other senior church officials, JP's and lords lieutenant, VC’s, DSO's, holders of insignia of the rank of commander and above, and a few others. Peter Haizelden Genealogist and Family Historian www.haizelden.co.uk

"Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message news:b467o3F8crU1@mid.individual.net... > Connected , supplementary query. I have an entry from the London Gazette > (well I have quite a few for this man) > April 15 1902, page 2503 > > The undermentioned Second Lieutenants to be Lieutenants > Jocelyn F. de F. Shaw, vice J.D.B. Fulton, promoted. Dated 27th January, > 1902 > > I don't know why there are two names and what the 'vice' refers to. Could > someone explain? > > ( I am not about to start Googling for 'vice' at my time of life!) > -- > Tickettyboo > Vice does mean in place of cf Viceroy (of India)" in place of the King". The meaning today of deputy - vice-chairman is modern and not quite right.

Thank you for coming back with that further information, Tickettyboo. I guess if he continued living in America after the war he can't have been too resentful over his conscription (if conscription it was)! Matt Tompkins On Monday, July 8, 2013 12:17:31 AM UTC+1, Tickettyboo wrote: Sorry I didn't back back to this sooner, the here and now has been demanding my attention so the long dead have taken a back seat. Charles Victor HENRY is a twiglet on my tree, he was the son of one of my Granda's cousins. Until I started researching my family history I had no idea of their existence so have no personal knowledge of them. His grandparents and assorted children (including Charles' father) emigrated from Shetland to Canada c1873. Charles' parents married in New Brunswick in 1891, they had 2 children (that I know of) Hazel born 1892 and Charles born 1896. Charles' father died in 1899 and his widow re-married in 1904. One of Charles' uncles had left Canada and settled in Maine with his family. According to the 1920 US census, Charles was living with them and the form says he had been in the US since 1912. The same 1920 census has him, still classified as an alien, by 1930 the entry in the citizenship column of the census say Pa (which I believe means he had submitted the papers for citizenship, but I could be wrong). I don't have an actual service record for Charles (if anyone can point me to where I may find one, I'll go look), I do have a record from the Maine-WW1-Soldiers index which says he entered service 25 July 1918 and was honourably discharged 24 Jul 1919. When he died in 1956, his widow (who, just to complicate matters, was also his cousin) applied for a headstone to be paid for by the Govt and that form confirms his service dates and gives his service number as 3160782 and says he served in the Army - 83 Co. Transportation Corps. He was buried in Village Cemetery, Gray, Maine. So, yes, I am sure he served in the US Army, but I have no idea if he did that voluntarily or was conscripted. Is there anyway to tell? -- Tickettyboo

On 2013-07-10 23:46:27 +0000, Ian Goddard said: > Tickettyboo wrote: >> Connected , supplementary query. I have an entry from the London Gazette >> (well I have quite a few for this man) >> April 15 1902, page 2503 >> >> The undermentioned Second Lieutenants to be Lieutenants >> Jocelyn F. de F. Shaw, vice J.D.B. Fulton, promoted. Dated 27th January, >> 1902 >> >> I don't know why there are two names and what the 'vice' refers to. >> Could someone explain? >> > > In place of, I think. If JDBF has been moved to another job Shaw will > be replacing him. > Thanks, now it makes sense, there is an entry promoting Lieutenants to Captain where JDBF is the first name , vice, some other fella. It seems to be a military version of the children's song 'there were ten in a bed', once one rolls over and moves out they all have a turn :-) -- Tickettyboo

Tickettyboo wrote: > Connected , supplementary query. I have an entry from the London Gazette > (well I have quite a few for this man) > April 15 1902, page 2503 > > The undermentioned Second Lieutenants to be Lieutenants > Jocelyn F. de F. Shaw, vice J.D.B. Fulton, promoted. Dated 27th January, > 1902 > > I don't know why there are two names and what the 'vice' refers to. > Could someone explain? > In place of, I think. If JDBF has been moved to another job Shaw will be replacing him. > ( I am not about to start Googling for 'vice' at my time of life!) ;) -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

Connected , supplementary query. I have an entry from the London Gazette (well I have quite a few for this man) April 15 1902, page 2503 The undermentioned Second Lieutenants to be Lieutenants Jocelyn F. de F. Shaw, vice J.D.B. Fulton, promoted. Dated 27th January, 1902 I don't know why there are two names and what the 'vice' refers to. Could someone explain? ( I am not about to start Googling for 'vice' at my time of life!) -- Tickettyboo

On 2013-07-10 15:44:52 +0000, eve@varneys.org.uk said: > . >> In there I have found a copy of a press release for the Defence Esates >> Annual Report in 2000. It says the report features the Fulton block at >> RAF Cosford. >> <quote> >> built in memory of Captain J D B Fulton, regarded as one of the >> founders of what became the RAF, Captain Fulton commanded one of two >> Royal Engineer Air Battalions, and was largely responsible for >> reforming them as the Royal Flying Corps in 1912. >> </quote> >> (From other documents in the file, JDBF commanded No 2 Battalion, which >> was the first 'heavier than air'[planes], Battalion - No 1 was >> balloons.) >> >> <quote> >> Fulton block was built in memory of Captain Fulton in 1938 at a cost of >> £250,000 bequeathed by Lady Fulton. >> </quote> >> >> >> So he 'does' have official-ish confirmation that the block was named >> for the man whose sword he owns. The Defence Estates seems to have been >> replaced by the Defence Infrastructure Organisation (a rose by any >> other name). I'll contact them and see if they can shed any light. >> >> JDBF's parents were Frederick George Fulton, a shipowner ( name from >> CWGC entry and occupation from JBDF's entry in the Royal Military >> Academy Woolwich Register) and Jane Elizabeth (maiden name not yet >> known) who, according to the 1891 census, was a widow, born c 1848 >> Yorkshire. Jane Elizabeth died in 1910 and JDBF was her executor. Her >> probate entry shows she left £8282 10s 10d - which seems to be far >> short of the £250,000 needed to build the block so I still don't know >> what relation the Lady Fulton, who made the bequest, was to JDBF. > > > There were two women actually entitled to the name and style of Lady > Fulton; both were widows of judges, Sir James Forrest Fulton and Sir Robert > Fulton. > Sophia, the wife of Sir Forrest, Recorder of London, was a great one for > good causes, but left only £3126 in 1928 and several children to share it. > Sir Robert, an old Indian judge, left £101,775-14-2 in 1927 (and two > children) His younger widow Margaret Edith, died in 1951 and left > £18.991-18-7 even thern (and one surviving dau, apparently). > I would think Margaret E is the best candidate for Lady Fulton, though there > is no apparent close relationship. Perhaps the name attracted her, perhaps > JD was a distant cousin of her husband's. Sir Robert was Scottish born > (Edinburgh) and certainly the chances are that John Duncan Fulton's origins > are Scots, even if his birth was in California. I have niot found any will for > Frederick G so far, -possibly his assets were all in America and/or Scotland. > EVE > Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians > Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society Thanks, I have contacted English Heritage, who say on their site that she was the 'widow' of Captain Fulton, to ask if they would tell me the source of that info. Will report back when they reply :-) I thought about a possible Scots connection, no will on Scotlands People for a Frederick/George or combination of those forenames FULTON which fits the bill and I think there would be if he held assets of any kind in Scotland. There also are no hits for a Frederick George FULTON in the OPRS. Statutory births are a bit late for him to have been married, over to the US and the father of JDBF, there are no Frederick FULTON entries who are even in the 'pushing it, but possible' category. -- Tickettyboo

On 2013-07-10 16:50:46 +0000, Ian Goddard said: > > Can I repeat a suggestion I made earlier. Try to find a library with > copies of Who's Who from the 1930s & see if there's a Lady Fulton in > there. Sorry, I did read your (very good) suggestion and will act on it, I checked the online 'Who was Who' and she wasn't in there. I do have a note to ring the county library to see if they can help. -- Tickettyboo

"Phil C." wrote in message news:9b-dnWezmZA7PkvMnZ2dnUVZ8sidnZ2d@bt.com... On 20/06/2013 14:40, Jenny M Benson wrote: > On 19/06/2013 17:27, Lesley Robertson wrote: >> >> It's the tears on demand that's made me very selective when >> watching >> "Who Do You Think You Are".. I'm going to have to watch this on the >> iPad >> since my cable company doesn't get the ITV stable, so it's going to >> have >> to be good to keep me watching... >> Thanks for the reminder, though, > > I thank Roy for the WARNING rather than the Reminder! The amount of > sentimental tosh and ridiculous tears that we get in WDYTYA drives > me > mad enough, but it sounds as though the proportion of slush to good > stuff in this programme will be far too high for me. I've just watched an episode, out of curiosity. I it was quite good, as a comedy. I'd just taken a sleeping pill, so not concentrating, but I recall one luvvie wanting to rage against the system and make his ancestor into a Working Class Hero. Another's was an orphan who was at last made to feel _special_ because he served in WWI (lucky boy) and therefore qualified for one of the standard medals... <Warning. Not recommended for large screen HD TV last thing at night. Looming botoxed, emoting faces may cause nightmares.> Phil C. It would be nice if someone just told them that they can't judge 19th century people by 21st century standards.... Lesley Robertson

On 10/07/2013 17:57, Geoff Pearson wrote: > > "Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message > news:b45cj1Fov4sU1@mid.individual.net... >> On 2013-07-10 14:10:22 +0000, Geoff Pearson said: >> >>> "Ian Goddard" <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message >>> news:b455btFnbr8U1@mid.individual.net... >>>> wtwjgc (Joe) wrote: >>>> %>< >>>>> >>>>> I notice the Fulton Block is now a Grade II listed building. Perhaps >>>>> English Heritage have more information about bequest? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This site does: >>>> http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-1407287-fulton-block-raf-cosford-donington- >>>> "HISTORY: Funded by Lady Fulton, the widow of one of the pioneers of >>>> military aviation in Britain," >>> >>> It will be worth asking English Heritage for their evidence on Lady >>> Fulton - listing is usually a careful process but sometimes >>> apocryphal stories survive and then support themselves. If need be an >>> FOI request will bring it all out. However, in parallel, find him a >>> wife! >> >> Thanks for the suggestion, I have mailed them (I am running out of >> organisations to ask!). >> I'd love to find him a wife! but so far have failed miserably at that, >> nor can I find a record of his parents marrying. >> >> -- >> Tickettyboo >> > > He might have had a Fulton brother or cousin who picked up a knighthood, > or a wife who came as a Lady, having been the daughter of an > Earl/Marquess/Viscount/Duke - as there is still no solid foundation for > the widow Fulton anything is possible. I've found references in the Times on-line to Sir Forrest and Lady Fulton. This Lady Fulton's maiden name was Mathew. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>