On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 20:24:37 +1000, "Kiwi in Aus" <Wwftw_98@Yahoo.com> wrote: > >"Anne Chambers" <anne@privacy.net> wrote in message >news:b4kkftF31scU1@mid.individual.net... >> Anne Chambers wrote: >>> Kiwi in Aus wrote: >>>> Born abt 1877 in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England >>>> married abt Sep 1908 Mutford, Suffolk, England >>>> Died 23 Jan 1952 Surrey South-Eastern, Surrey, England >>>> I can't find a birth for him on Ancestry or Free BMDs only census I can >>>> find him on is 1911 after he was >>>> married, I am after a birth and any census where he is with his parents >>>> Cheers Jenny >>>> I DON'T do Mornings!!!!! >>>> Photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/jen_in_brisbane/ >>>> Family Tree http://minerstree.tribalpages.com/ >>>> >>>> >>> The 1911 census shows him living with his parents >>> George Frederick Bugg 59 >>> Martha Milton Bugg 58 >>> Percival Ernest Leighton 34 >>> Beatrice Alice Leighton 31 >>> Mary Ann Cocksedge 21 >>> >>> Births Mar 1876 >>> Bugg Percival Ernest Bury St.E. 4a 565 >>> >>> Marriages Sep 1906 >>> HARVEY Beatrice Alice Mutford 4a 2167 >>> LEIGHTON Percival Ernest Mutford 4a 2167 >>> >>> Marriages Jun 1874 >>> Bugg George Frederick Bury St. E. 4a 731 >>> Jackaman Martha Milton Bury St. E. 4a 731 >>> >>> No idea why he changed his name - perhaps he found out that George Bugg >>> was not his father ? >>> >> 1881 census >> Class: RG11; Piece: 1842; Folio: 108; Page: 3; >> George F. Bugg 29 >> Martha M. Bugg 28 >> Frederick J. Bugg 6 >> Percival E. Bugg 5 >> Arthur R. Bugg 2 >> Herbert L. Bugg Emma Stocking 18 >> >> 1891 (according to Ancestry !) >> Class: RG12; Piece: 1450; Folio: 154 >> George T Rugg 39 >> Martha M Rugg 39 >> Percival E Rugg 15 >> Arthur R Rugg 12 >> Cecil W Rugg 8 >> Martha S Heckaman 66 >> Priscilla Suell 13 >> >> 1901 >> Class: RG13; Piece: 1755; Folio: 110 >> Geo F Bugg 49 >> Martha M Bugg 48 >> Percival E Bugg 25 >> Cecil W Bugg 18 >> Martha Wilden 32 >> >> so something happened between 1901 and 1906 to make him change his >> surname. There's nothing in the london Gazette to say it was an official >> name change... > A DIY change of name is no less "official" than publishing a notice in the Gazettes; it is quite possible an appropriate notice could have been placed in a local newspaper. >>perhaps Beatrice did not think Bugg was 'posh' enough. Who >> could blame her ! >Thanks Ann yep I would hate to be Mrs Bugg, maybe he was dodging being >called up for arms who knows, I will just make a note that he changed his >name and leave it at that his wife is a 3rd cousin twice removed so only >just makes the tree anyway, although I notice an eight cousin has snuck in, >I usually stop at sixth cousins >> >> >> -- >> Anne Chambers >> South Australia >> >> anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com > >

"Anne Chambers" <anne@privacy.net> wrote in message news:b4kkftF31scU1@mid.individual.net... > Anne Chambers wrote: >> Kiwi in Aus wrote: >>> Born abt 1877 in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England >>> married abt Sep 1908 Mutford, Suffolk, England >>> Died 23 Jan 1952 Surrey South-Eastern, Surrey, England >>> I can't find a birth for him on Ancestry or Free BMDs only census I can >>> find him on is 1911 after he was >>> married, I am after a birth and any census where he is with his parents >>> Cheers Jenny >>> I DON'T do Mornings!!!!! >>> Photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/jen_in_brisbane/ >>> Family Tree http://minerstree.tribalpages.com/ >>> >>> >> The 1911 census shows him living with his parents >> George Frederick Bugg 59 >> Martha Milton Bugg 58 >> Percival Ernest Leighton 34 >> Beatrice Alice Leighton 31 >> Mary Ann Cocksedge 21 >> >> Births Mar 1876 >> Bugg Percival Ernest Bury St.E. 4a 565 >> >> Marriages Sep 1906 >> HARVEY Beatrice Alice Mutford 4a 2167 >> LEIGHTON Percival Ernest Mutford 4a 2167 >> >> Marriages Jun 1874 >> Bugg George Frederick Bury St. E. 4a 731 >> Jackaman Martha Milton Bury St. E. 4a 731 >> >> No idea why he changed his name - perhaps he found out that George Bugg >> was not his father ? >> > 1881 census > Class: RG11; Piece: 1842; Folio: 108; Page: 3; > George F. Bugg 29 > Martha M. Bugg 28 > Frederick J. Bugg 6 > Percival E. Bugg 5 > Arthur R. Bugg 2 > Herbert L. Bugg Emma Stocking 18 > > 1891 (according to Ancestry !) > Class: RG12; Piece: 1450; Folio: 154 > George T Rugg 39 > Martha M Rugg 39 > Percival E Rugg 15 > Arthur R Rugg 12 > Cecil W Rugg 8 > Martha S Heckaman 66 > Priscilla Suell 13 > > 1901 > Class: RG13; Piece: 1755; Folio: 110 > Geo F Bugg 49 > Martha M Bugg 48 > Percival E Bugg 25 > Cecil W Bugg 18 > Martha Wilden 32 > > so something happened between 1901 and 1906 to make him change his > surname. There's nothing in the london Gazette to say it was an official > name change...perhaps Beatrice did not think Bugg was 'posh' enough. Who > could blame her ! Thanks Ann yep I would hate to be Mrs Bugg, maybe he was dodging being called up for arms who knows, I will just make a note that he changed his name and leave it at that his wife is a 3rd cousin twice removed so only just makes the tree anyway, although I notice an eight cousin has snuck in, I usually stop at sixth cousins > > > -- > Anne Chambers > South Australia > > anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

"Jenny M Benson" <nemonews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message news:b4kitpF2o7bU1@mid.individual.net... > On 16/07/2013 10:30, Kiwi in Aus wrote: >> Born abt 1877 in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England >> married abt Sep 1908 Mutford, Suffolk, England >> Died 23 Jan 1952 Surrey South-Eastern, Surrey, England >> I can't find a birth for him on Ancestry or Free BMDs only census I can >> find him on is 1911 after he was married, I am after a birth and any >> census where he is with his parents > > In 1881 (RG11; Piece: 1842; Folio: 108; Page: 3) there is a a Percival E > Bugg, who was born in B St E in 1876. You can find his birth entry on > FreeBMD as Percival Ernest Bugg. A very quick search doesn't turn him up > in the Death records or in 1911 Census, so it's just possible he's your > man and changed his surname for some reason. > > -- > Jenny M Benson Thanks Jenny wonder why he would change his name 1 answer another question but I guess that is what keeps us interested

Anne Chambers wrote: > Kiwi in Aus wrote: >> Born abt 1877 in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England >> married abt Sep 1908 Mutford, Suffolk, England >> Died 23 Jan 1952 Surrey South-Eastern, Surrey, England >> I can't find a birth for him on Ancestry or Free BMDs only census I can find him on is 1911 after he was >> married, I am after a birth and any census where he is with his parents >> Cheers Jenny >> I DON'T do Mornings!!!!! >> Photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/jen_in_brisbane/ >> Family Tree http://minerstree.tribalpages.com/ >> >> > The 1911 census shows him living with his parents > George Frederick Bugg 59 > Martha Milton Bugg 58 > Percival Ernest Leighton 34 > Beatrice Alice Leighton 31 > Mary Ann Cocksedge 21 > > Births Mar 1876 > Bugg Percival Ernest Bury St.E. 4a 565 > > Marriages Sep 1906 > HARVEY Beatrice Alice Mutford 4a 2167 > LEIGHTON Percival Ernest Mutford 4a 2167 > > Marriages Jun 1874 > Bugg George Frederick Bury St. E. 4a 731 > Jackaman Martha Milton Bury St. E. 4a 731 > > No idea why he changed his name - perhaps he found out that George Bugg was not his father ? > 1881 census Class: RG11; Piece: 1842; Folio: 108; Page: 3; George F. Bugg 29 Martha M. Bugg 28 Frederick J. Bugg 6 Percival E. Bugg 5 Arthur R. Bugg 2 Herbert L. Bugg Emma Stocking 18 1891 (according to Ancestry !) Class: RG12; Piece: 1450; Folio: 154 George T Rugg 39 Martha M Rugg 39 Percival E Rugg 15 Arthur R Rugg 12 Cecil W Rugg 8 Martha S Heckaman 66 Priscilla Suell 13 1901 Class: RG13; Piece: 1755; Folio: 110 Geo F Bugg 49 Martha M Bugg 48 Percival E Bugg 25 Cecil W Bugg 18 Martha Wilden 32 so something happened between 1901 and 1906 to make him change his surname. There's nothing in the london Gazette to say it was an official name change...perhaps Beatrice did not think Bugg was 'posh' enough. Who could blame her ! -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

Born abt 1877 in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England married abt Sep 1908 Mutford, Suffolk, England Died 23 Jan 1952 Surrey South-Eastern, Surrey, England I can't find a birth for him on Ancestry or Free BMDs only census I can find him on is 1911 after he was married, I am after a birth and any census where he is with his parents Cheers Jenny I DON'T do Mornings!!!!! Photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/jen_in_brisbane/ Family Tree http://minerstree.tribalpages.com/

Kiwi in Aus wrote: > Born abt 1877 in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England > married abt Sep 1908 Mutford, Suffolk, England > Died 23 Jan 1952 Surrey South-Eastern, Surrey, England > I can't find a birth for him on Ancestry or Free BMDs only census I can find him on is 1911 after he was > married, I am after a birth and any census where he is with his parents > Cheers Jenny > I DON'T do Mornings!!!!! > Photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/jen_in_brisbane/ > Family Tree http://minerstree.tribalpages.com/ > > The 1911 census shows him living with his parents George Frederick Bugg 59 Martha Milton Bugg 58 Percival Ernest Leighton 34 Beatrice Alice Leighton 31 Mary Ann Cocksedge 21 Births Mar 1876 Bugg Percival Ernest Bury St.E. 4a 565 Marriages Sep 1906 HARVEY Beatrice Alice Mutford 4a 2167 LEIGHTON Percival Ernest Mutford 4a 2167 Marriages Jun 1874 Bugg George Frederick Bury St. E. 4a 731 Jackaman Martha Milton Bury St. E. 4a 731 No idea why he changed his name - perhaps he found out that George Bugg was not his father ? -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

On 16/07/2013 10:47, Kiwi in Aus wrote: > Thanks Jenny wonder why he would change his name 1 answer another > question but I guess that is what keeps us interested I think I might change my name if it was Bugg! Could be other reasons though. I have a couple of as-yet-unexplained name changes in my ancestry. -- Jenny M Benson

On 16/07/2013 10:30, Kiwi in Aus wrote: > Born abt 1877 in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England > married abt Sep 1908 Mutford, Suffolk, England > Died 23 Jan 1952 Surrey South-Eastern, Surrey, England > I can't find a birth for him on Ancestry or Free BMDs only census I can > find him on is 1911 after he was married, I am after a birth and any > census where he is with his parents In 1881 (RG11; Piece: 1842; Folio: 108; Page: 3) there is a a Percival E Bugg, who was born in B St E in 1876. You can find his birth entry on FreeBMD as Percival Ernest Bugg. A very quick search doesn't turn him up in the Death records or in 1911 Census, so it's just possible he's your man and changed his surname for some reason. -- Jenny M Benson

Jenny M Benson wrote: > Definitely looks more like Hanratha than Hanratta (as FMP has it)in 1851 and Ancestry has transcribed it as > Hanratha, though they have the surname as Hasley. > > Father's name of Harrison Harley is fairly distinctive. You should know her father's name if you have the > marriage record. > I think it's Henriette - the enumerator's 'e's look like 'a's but his 'a's have the joining loop halfway up the letter whereas the 'e's don't. It's truly vile handwriting and Ancestry have done an even worse job of transcription than usual. -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

On 15/07/2013 13:41, Mick wrote: > On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 07:51:37 -0400, Keith Nuttle > <Keith_Nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> >On 7/15/2013 7:18 AM, Mick wrote: >>> >>Hi all, >>> >> Spelling never was a strong thing with me! >>> >> >>> >>I am trying to pair up a marriage and think a birth name of Hanratta >>> >>Harley born 1842 in Southampton could be misspelt for Henrietta >>> >>Would this seem right? >>> >> >>> >>Or was there a christian name of: Hanratta around 1842? >>> >>Mick IOW. >>> >> >> >While I do not know if there is a Hanratta, I believe that Hanratta is a >> >mis transcription of Henrietta. I have seen many spellings of Henrietta. >> > >> >Have you seen the original document? I have seen many "e" transcribed >> >as "a" Hanratta--> Henretta > Hi, no it was on a transcribed census, I go for them because I am > hopeless at reading handwriting. > > I will go and get the original and try. Definitely looks more like Hanratha than Hanratta (as FMP has it)in 1851 and Ancestry has transcribed it as Hanratha, though they have the surname as Hasley. Father's name of Harrison Harley is fairly distinctive. You should know her father's name if you have the marriage record. -- Jenny M Benson

On 15 Jul 2013 in soc.genealogy.britain, Mick wrote: > I am trying to pair up a marriage and think a birth name of Hanratta > Harley born 1842 in Southampton could be misspelt for Henrietta > Would this seem right? > > Or was there a christian name of: Hanratta around 1842? Polish for Henrietta. It was my aunt's name, but she hated it - always went by Hattie. -- Joe Makowiec http://makowiec.org/ Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 07:51:37 -0400, Keith Nuttle <Keith_Nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >On 7/15/2013 7:18 AM, Mick wrote: >> Hi all, >> Spelling never was a strong thing with me! >> >> I am trying to pair up a marriage and think a birth name of Hanratta >> Harley born 1842 in Southampton could be misspelt for Henrietta >> Would this seem right? >> >> Or was there a christian name of: Hanratta around 1842? >> Mick IOW. >> >While I do not know if there is a Hanratta, I believe that Hanratta is a >mis transcription of Henrietta. I have seen many spellings of Henrietta. > >Have you seen the original document? I have seen many "e" transcribed >as "a" Hanratta--> Henretta Hi, no it was on a transcribed census, I go for them because I am hopeless at reading handwriting. I will go and get the original and try. Thanks, Mick IOW.

On 11 Jul at 15:29, Peter Haizelden <webmaster@haizelden.co.uk> wrote: <snip for brevity> > Unfortunately, it's a misnomer to assume everyone of rank or > profession is included in Who's Who. The publication has always > invited those listed and not according to their rank in Society – > think of all those pop musicians and film stars. Therefore the widows > of knights, baronets, and peers were not necessarily included. The > opposite is so of Kelly's Handbook which lists the peerage, knightage, > and baronetage - including the widows - bishops and other senior > church officials, JP's and lords lieutenant, VC’s, DSO's, holders of > insignia of the rank of commander and above, and a few others. Agreed that Lady Fulton could be anyone but there are two Fulton Knights to be found in Shaw's "The Knights of England": Knight of the Royal Hanover Guelphic order: 1837 Lt Col James Forrest Fulton (vol I, p. 476). Knight Bachelor: 1892, Dec 2. Forrest Fulton, QC, common serjeant of the City of London (vol II, p. 391). I am inclined to suggest that she might have been the widow of the latter as people were not appointed QC unless they had shown proficiency at ordinary barristering and then QC fees were a step-function larger. So she might have had a bob or two. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org for a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

Hi all, Spelling never was a strong thing with me! I am trying to pair up a marriage and think a birth name of Hanratta Harley born 1842 in Southampton could be misspelt for Henrietta Would this seem right? Or was there a christian name of: Hanratta around 1842? Mick IOW.

On 7/15/2013 7:18 AM, Mick wrote: > Hi all, > Spelling never was a strong thing with me! > > I am trying to pair up a marriage and think a birth name of Hanratta > Harley born 1842 in Southampton could be misspelt for Henrietta > Would this seem right? > > Or was there a christian name of: Hanratta around 1842? > Mick IOW. > While I do not know if there is a Hanratta, I believe that Hanratta is a mis transcription of Henrietta. I have seen many spellings of Henrietta. Have you seen the original document? I have seen many "e" transcribed as "a" Hanratta--> Henretta

On 2013-07-14 03:18:18 +0000, Renia said: > On 08/07/2013 11:21, Tickettyboo wrote: > >> Its just the family type bits I am looking at, which are proving to be >> difficult. The fact that he was born in San Francisco was interesting, >> but unproductive so far in the way of records to verify that event. He >> did attend school in England , at Malvern, but I am still trawling >> through to see if I can spot him/ his parents in passenger lists to and >> from the US. We do have a copy of his death cert, but apart from the >> address no clues to family there. His CWGC entry says he was the son of >> Frederick George Fulton - no mention of a Mum or a wife. > > > The Malvern Register: > John Duncan Bertie Fulton; born 1876; son of Mrs. Fulton of 76 > Longridge Road, London, S. W. Entgered May 1890. Huntington House; Army > Side. House Prefect. Left Midsummer 1893. Passed into Woolwich; Royal > Artillery. > > He appears in the 1891 census at Malvern College, Worcestershire, then > aged 14 and given as born in California, but a British Subject. That he > was in the Army Side at Malvern shows his family or sponsor also had > army connections, probably in the R.A. > > His mother, J Elizabeth Fulton (indexed as Tulton on FindMyPast) was a > widow aged 43 in 1891, living on her own means and born in Yorkshire. > She had a cook and two housemaids living with her at 76 Longdridge > Road, Kensington, London. > > Jane Elizabeth Fulton died in 1910 leaving £8,000 and her executor was > John Duncan Bertie Fulton, Capt. R.A. She was aged 73 and had aged 10 > years since the 1891 census. John Duncan Bertie Fulton died in 1916 > leaving £6,000. > > Bertie Fulton sailed from Liverpool and arrived in New York on 20 Dec > 1880 on the ship City of Chester, in which he was classed as an > American Citizen aged 4. He was with his 30-year-old mother, Mrs > Fulton, on the main deck. > > Bertie was back in England in time for the 1881 census, when he was > living in Victoria Avenue, Harrogate, Yorkshire, at Straylea Villa, > with 3 servants and Edmund Faber, a 44-year-old lodger, who was a > banker born in France, but a British Subject. Bertie is given as born > in California. Visiting, were Walter Faber, aged 24, a Lieut in the > Royal Artillery who was born in Cockfosters, Hertfordshire, and John > Davison, aged 21, also a Lieut R.A. Bertie had no family living with > him at the time. > > Walter Vavasour Faber (1857-1928) was M.P. for Andover 1906-1918. He > was educated at Malvern and served in the R.A. as Captain. He was the > brother of Edmund Beckett Faber, 1st Baron Faber, also an M.P. for > Andover 1901-1905. They were the sons of Charles Wilson Faber (D.L. of > Hertfordshire) and Mary Beckett, daughter of Sir Edmund Beckett, 4th > Baronet. Charles Wilson Faber died in 1878 leaving £60,000, quite a > fortune in those days. He was then of Brighton, Sussex, but died in San > Remo, Italy, and his executor was Edmund Beckett Faber of Leeds. > > In 1861, the Faber brothers were living at Northaw House in > Hertfordshire with their family, including their sister, Elizabeth > Faber, then aged 20 and born in North Deighton, Yorkshire and their > brother, John D B Faber, aged 7. She was unmarried aged 30 and living > with her parents in Northaw House in 1871. John David Beverly Faber was > also there, a scholar aged 17. She was baptised at Kirk Deighton, > Yorkshire on 27th April 1841, born 27 Dec 1840. She married Mortimer > Sackville-West (Baron Sackville) in 1873 at Northaw and they both died > in 1888, which eliminates her as the mother of John DB Fulton. > > I can find no evidence for the existence of a Frederick George Fulton, > a George Frederick Fulton, a George Fulton or a Frederick Fulton. No > one suitable appears on censuses in Scotland, England, the USA or > Canada. Neither does anyone suitable appear on UK birth, marriage or > death registers. > > Only two Lady Fultons were of social note in 1929 (Whittaker's > Peerage), both of whom were widows and have been mentioned by others: > Lady Fulton (Sophia Browne, daughter of John B. Nicholson) married 1875 > Sir Forrest Fulton, Kt. Bach., K.C., Recorder of London etc, died 1925 > Lady Fulton (Margaret Edith, daughter of Brigade-Surgeon R. G. Mathew, > I.M.S.) married 1887 Sir Robert Fulton Fulton, Kt. Bach., I.C.S. ret., > sometime a Pulsne Judge, Bengal High Cout (died 1927). Residence: 7 > Sloane Gardens, London SW1 Thank you , I didn't have the passenger list (though it was on my list to look using the name Bertie after I had seen the 1881 census) so that's another piece of info to help to build up this puzzle. and its always good that a second pair of eyes independently confirms that what has been found so far. and the Faber men who were listed in the same household must have had some link to JDBF/his mother. Family friends or relatives possibly. On JDBFs death cert the entry in the informant's column was "Faber. Causing the body to be buried. 19 Park Street" I don't think I have ever seen the phrase 'causing the body to be buried' on a death cert before, so that's a new one for me. According to the London Electoral Roll for 1915 (19 Park Street, St George, Grosvenor Ward) the man was Lord Faber. -- Tickettyboo

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:Y2g2QrGdhm4RFw$C@soft255.demon.co.uk... > In message <b4al0sFsvhcU1@mid.individual.net>, Geoff Pearson > <gspearson1647@hotmail.com> writes: > [] >>The use of Lady Fulton without a forename suggests she was the wife of >>someone. If it had been her own title it would be normal to give her >>forename cf Lady Antonia Fraser daughter of the Earl of Longford and Lady >>Thatcher, wife of Sir Denis Thatcher Baronet. Margaret Thatcher later >>became a life peer and was properly called Baroness Thatcher. For >>Thatcher, neither produced Lady Margaret Thatcher. So I guess Lady Fulton >>has to be found by finding a Sir or Lord Fulton. > > Unfortunately, "suggests" is the right word to use here: these matters of > etiquette are often not known (I didn't, though will try to remember from > your example - though I'd forgotten or didn't know Dennis was a baronet). > This lack of knowledge almost certainly extends to journalists, especially > on smaller papers, so I don't think one can _rely_ on how a name is given, > though it can indeed suggest. >> >>In my family it was always said my great-grandfather was a partner of >>William Morris in his cycle shop and they parted when Morris decided to >>build new-fangled cars. There was no truth in it, except they lived in >>the same street in Cowley - but the story grew because no one checked. We >>still have nothing to connect JDBF to a Lady Fulton or RAF Cosford. > > (I just walked past the blue plaque that said William Morris "lived and > made bicycles here" last night [I'm visiting my brother in Oxford for the > weekend]. Ordinary house in an ordinary street - or is now, anyway.) > -- > J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf > > What is the point of a really good degree, if you're just like Harold > Wilson? > That really cut me down to size. - Sister Wendy Becket, on DIDs 2012-12-16 > (She, like he, got one of the best degrees at Oxford in her year.) There was a tradition that Prime Ministers were awarded earldoms ( inheritable titles) when they went to the House of Lords: Earl Attlee, Harold Macmillan>Earl of Stockton but some refused: Winston Churchill. Willie Whitelaw was appointed Viscount because he had only daughters and therefore the title would die with him. There was no obvious rank of aristocracy open to Mrs Thatcher so she accepted a baronetcy for Denis, hence Sir Mark Thatcher today. Later, when she wanted to go to the Lords she was offered a life barony as there are almost no female peers in their own right: Countess Mountbatten may be the only English example, there are several Scottish ones: Countess of Sutherland, Baroness Strange.

On 2013-07-14 10:47:29 +0000, BobC said: > In article <krt59q$2la$1@speranza.aioe.org>, renia@otenet.gr says... >> >> >> His mother, J Elizabeth Fulton (indexed as Tulton on FindMyPast) was a >> widow aged 43 in 1891, living on her own means and born in Yorkshire. >> She had a cook and two housemaids living with her at 76 Longdridge Road, >> Kensington, London. > > Also a Butler - intersting that three of the four domestic staff were > foriegn (French and German). > >> >> Jane Elizabeth Fulton died in 1910 leaving £8,000 and her executor was >> John Duncan Bertie Fulton, Capt. R.A. She was aged 73 and had aged 10 >> years since the 1891 census. John Duncan Bertie Fulton died in 1916 >> leaving £6,000. >> > Has anyone seen the Will attached to the limited administration for > Bertie to see what he actually left (not just what came within the > jurisdiction of the English courts) and to whom ? It has been ordered, so we are just waiting for it to arrive. From memory it will take about 3 weeks :-) I am not so much interested in what he left as to whom he left it. :-) -- Tickettyboo

A few years ago the Holmfirth Civic Society published a book about the operation of the poor laws in the Huddersfield area. The harsh regime was more or less mandated by the 1834 Act. Prior to that the local Guardians seem to have preferred to maintain the poor in their own homes. There was strong opposition locally including from many of the Guardians themselves - after one meeting 6 were charged with riotous conduct. The Guardians were able to frustrate the building of new workhouses for a couple of decades. AFAICS from the '41 & '51 census the Wooldale poorhouse still consisted of a row of 3 cottages each occupied by a single family. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

In article <krt59q$2la$1@speranza.aioe.org>, renia@otenet.gr says... > > > His mother, J Elizabeth Fulton (indexed as Tulton on FindMyPast) was a > widow aged 43 in 1891, living on her own means and born in Yorkshire. > She had a cook and two housemaids living with her at 76 Longdridge Road, > Kensington, London. Also a Butler - intersting that three of the four domestic staff were foriegn (French and German). > > Jane Elizabeth Fulton died in 1910 leaving £8,000 and her executor was > John Duncan Bertie Fulton, Capt. R.A. She was aged 73 and had aged 10 > years since the 1891 census. John Duncan Bertie Fulton died in 1916 > leaving £6,000. > Has anyone seen the Will attached to the limited administration for Bertie to see what he actually left (not just what came within the jurisdiction of the English courts) and to whom ? -- BobC ========== Change "null" to "news" in reply address.