On 18/07/2013 20:24, Steve Hayes wrote: > One of my ancestors is described in the 1851 census as a "sworn corn miler". > > Anyone know what that is? > > I assume that "miler" is a misspelling of "miller", but though I'bve heard of > sworn appraisers, I've never heard of a sworn corn miller before. > > and from Google books... http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=HSgJAAAAQAAJ&dq=Sworn%20corn%20meter&pg=PA144#v=onepage&q=Sworn%20corn%20meter&f=false "It must be observed that as the City of London occasions the Consumption of so great a Quantity of Corn and Coals so the Measurement of them is under the Inspection of the Lord Mayor and Court of Aldermen and for the Direction of it there is allowed a certain Number of Corn meters and Coal meters whose Places are for Life and bring them in a very considerable Income. They have abundance of poor Men employed under them who are also called Meters and are or ought to be Freemen of the City. This is indeed a kind of Tax as well upon the Coals as Corn but the Buyer is abundantly recompensed by being ascertained in his Measure for the Sworn Meters are so placed between the Buyer and the Seller and have so many Eyes upon them being besides Men of Character that there is hardly ever any room for Complaint on this Head."

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 12:34:56 +0100, Jenny M Benson <nemonews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >On 18/07/2013 23:16, Steve Hayes wrote: >>> I presume your ancestor was Thomas Stooke. >> He was, but how did you know that? >> >> Or was he unique in being the only corn miler in all the world, and not a mere >> device, and therefore easy to find? >> >You were nearly right! Googling produced a Rootsweb posting (that I >presume came from you, or perhaps another descendant) that mentioned his >name. Ah, possibly that was it. I wondered for a moment if I might have found another relation. Anyway, I've decided it should be "sworn corn meter". It was a bloke called Brian Freestone who looked it up for me in 1976, and wrote "corn miller?", because he found it difficult to read. So thanks to everyone for helpful information. -- Steve Hayes Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/ http://hayesgreene.blogspot.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/afgen/

On 19/07/2013 19:41, MB wrote: > One problem is the cynics on some forums cannot believe that any actor > can ever have genuine emotions and that any tears are faked. Many of > them can't believe that anyone can be moved by sad facts about ancestors > who they never knew but I am sure most of us have shed the odd tear when > finding out things about ancestors. Yes, I've shed "the odd tear" over the very unhappy fate of a relative about whom I had done extensive research and felt I had really got to know and thought of as one of my quite close family. That's vastly different to emoting extravagantly over someone that some researcher has found and just told you about a few hours before. -- Jenny M Benson

On 19/07/2013 09:59, BobC wrote: > In article <mailman.0.1374146636.25298.genbrit@rootsweb.com>, > roy.stockdill@btinternet.com says... >> > > <snip> >> Can these luvvies >> really be so naive as not to realise that the world was a very different place >> 100 and more years ago and that trying to judge things that happened long, long >> ago by a mindset of modern values is simply plain stupid? > > They are actors - paid to produce the reaction that will appeal to the > audience as defined by the program producers. > > The other thing is they will need to be aware of the way the press would > report it if they were to appear "heartless and uncaring". > > One problem is the cynics on some forums cannot believe that any actor can ever have genuine emotions and that any tears are faked. Many of them can't believe that anyone can be moved by sad facts about ancestors who they never knew but I am sure most of us have shed the odd tear when finding out things about ancestors.

At the risk of making a rather rash statement, I believe that I have a family tree of everyone in the world, born between about 1850 and 1950, with the surname CROUTEAR. It seems that everyone with that surname descends from a single couple, Charles Samuel CROUTEAR (1809-1893) and Frances HARDING (1811-1873), who lived in the parish of Boldre, Hampshire. I suspect the surname originated in the 18th century as a corruption of CROUCHER, a common enough name in the New Forest. If anyone has any CROUTEARs in their tree, I'd love to hear from them, even if it's only just a single individual who has married into the family. I'm happy to share what I have with anyone interested. I haven't yet got around to putting the data online, but I'll try to do so in the future. Richard

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:mfKp61O9YN6RFw78@soft255.demon.co.uk... > In message <b4kjh3F2rglU1@mid.individual.net>, Anne Chambers > <anne@privacy.net> writes: > [] >>The 1911 census shows him living with his parents >>George Frederick Bugg 59 >>Martha Milton Bugg 58 >>Percival Ernest Leighton 34 >>Beatrice Alice Leighton 31 >>Mary Ann Cocksedge 21 > [] >>No idea why he changed his name - perhaps he found out that George Bugg >>was not his father ? >> > Could he have taken his wife's name? Very progressive for 190x, but as > others have said, maybe she didn't want to be Mrs. Bugg (and/or he didn't > want to continue being it). The marriage record might give some insight > ... No her maiden Name was Beatrice Alice HARVEY > -- > J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf > > "Bother," said Pooh, as he tasted the bacon in his sandwich.

According to the Surname data base this is what they say: This interesting name, with variant spellings Crowder, Crother and Crewther, derives from the Middle English "crouth" or "croude", related to the Welsh "crwth", meaning "crowd" i.e., a popular medieval bowed stringed instrument. A quotation from Luke XV. 25. reads, "But his eldre sone was in the feeld, and whanne he cam and neighede to the hous he herde a synfonye and a crowde". A further reference to the instrument appears in Spencer's "Fairy Queen" - "the pipe, the tabor, and the trembling crowd". Crowder, and it's variant forms, was originally given as an occupational name to a player on the crowd. Early recordings of the surname include Hugo le Crouder, (Leicestershire, 1278); Kenwick le Cruther, (Cheshire, 1289) and Katerina Crowder - "The Poll Tax Returns of Yorkshire", (1379). Richard, son of Thomas Crouther, was christened on June 3rd 1739 at St. Nicholas, Liverpool, Yorkshire. The marriage was recorded in Surrey of Mary Ann Maria Croutear and George Scriven on December 1st 1868 at Weybridge. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Richard le Cruder, which was dated 1273, "The Hundred Rolls of Kent", during the reign of King Edward 1, "The Hammer of the Scots", 1272 - 1307. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling. Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Croutear#ixzz2ZXJxPiGt -----Original Message----- From: genbrit-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:genbrit-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Richard Smith Sent: Friday, 19 July, 2013 10:15 AM To: genbrit@rootsweb.com Subject: CROUTEAR family At the risk of making a rather rash statement, I believe that I have a family tree of everyone in the world, born between about 1850 and 1950, with the surname CROUTEAR. It seems that everyone with that surname descends from a single couple, Charles Samuel CROUTEAR (1809-1893) and Frances HARDING (1811-1873), who lived in the parish of Boldre, Hampshire. I suspect the surname originated in the 18th century as a corruption of CROUCHER, a common enough name in the New Forest. If anyone has any CROUTEARs in their tree, I'd love to hear from them, even if it's only just a single individual who has married into the family. I'm happy to share what I have with anyone interested. I haven't yet got around to putting the data online, but I'll try to do so in the future. Richard ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENBRIT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3349 / Virus Database: 3204/6504 - Release Date: 07/19/13

On 18/07/2013 23:16, Steve Hayes wrote: >> I presume your ancestor was Thomas Stooke. > He was, but how did you know that? > > Or was he unique in being the only corn miler in all the world, and not a mere > device, and therefore easy to find? > You were nearly right! Googling produced a Rootsweb posting (that I presume came from you, or perhaps another descendant) that mentioned his name. -- Jenny M Benson

On 19 Jul at 9:59, BobC <calverb-null@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > In article <mailman.0.1374146636.25298.genbrit@rootsweb.com>, > roy.stockdill@btinternet.com says... > > > > <snip> > > Can these luvvies really be so naive as not to realise that the > > world was a very different place 100 and more years ago and that > > trying to judge things that happened long, long ago by a mindset of > > modern values is simply plain stupid? > > They are actors - paid to produce the reaction that will appeal to the > audience as defined by the program producers. > > The other thing is they will need to be aware of the way the press > would report it if they were to appear "heartless and uncaring". Thoroughly agreed. Actors are expected to pretend to thoughts, actions and emotions that are not theirs, so who are we to be surprised if they continue to do their day job when they are interviewed? It may even be that the producers encourage them to do exactly that. Such thinking of things as they are not is sometimes known as lying but is also the core of the greatest human creativity, so much so that if we could not 'lie' we would never have made the progress in civilisation, art and technology that we glory in today. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org for a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

In article <mailman.0.1374146636.25298.genbrit@rootsweb.com>, roy.stockdill@btinternet.com says... > <snip> > Can these luvvies > really be so naive as not to realise that the world was a very different place > 100 and more years ago and that trying to judge things that happened long, long > ago by a mindset of modern values is simply plain stupid? They are actors - paid to produce the reaction that will appeal to the audience as defined by the program producers. The other thing is they will need to be aware of the way the press would report it if they were to appear "heartless and uncaring". -- BobC ========== Change "null" to "news" in reply address.

On Thu, 2013-07-18 at 21:24 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote: > One of my ancestors is described in the 1851 census as a "sworn corn > miler". A sworn weigher (for example) had sworn and signed an affidavit before a commissioner of oaths to record weights accurately.

In message <b4kjh3F2rglU1@mid.individual.net>, Anne Chambers <anne@privacy.net> writes: [] >The 1911 census shows him living with his parents >George Frederick Bugg 59 >Martha Milton Bugg 58 >Percival Ernest Leighton 34 >Beatrice Alice Leighton 31 >Mary Ann Cocksedge 21 [] >No idea why he changed his name - perhaps he found out that George Bugg >was not his father ? > Could he have taken his wife's name? Very progressive for 190x, but as others have said, maybe she didn't want to be Mrs. Bugg (and/or he didn't want to continue being it). The marriage record might give some insight ... -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "Bother," said Pooh, as he tasted the bacon in his sandwich.

Steve Hayes wrote: > One of my ancestors is described in the 1851 census as a "sworn corn miler". > > Anyone know what that is? > > I assume that "miler" is a misspelling of "miller", but though I'bve heard of > sworn appraisers, I've never heard of a sworn corn miller before. > There's a reference to 'sworn millers' here http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=64797 "They might grind corn at the mill of the lord at a fixed multure, and the commonalty chose two sworn millers and one page, who might not be appointed or removed without their consent." I presume that was to ensure that all the corn brought to the mill to be ground was returned as flour, without some being skimmed off by the miller. Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 21:57:25 +0100, "Steven Gibbs" <stevenng4@sgibbs1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: > >"Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote in message >news:g2ggu8t1vagudqrtqunmcs1cmodu1qeuee@4ax.com... >> One of my ancestors is described in the 1851 census as a "sworn corn >> miler". >> >> Anyone know what that is? > >I think it's "Sworn corn meter", for which Google shows plenty of entries. >Don't know what one is yet, though. I found this on Rootschat: "I googled and found this Meters were men who did measuring - corn, coal, fish, coin in ancient days etc. Only fifty years ago Yarmouth had meters who measured the herring in peds ( baskets made of wicker ) Anything I GUESS that was sold in bulk had to be measured, especially corn, and the sworn meter was a man who was given the right to determine the measure. If he was a sworn meter he was guaranteeing the quantity or measure." So perhaps you're right. -- Steve Hayes Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/ http://hayesgreene.blogspot.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/afgen/

On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 21:23:25 +0100, Jenny M Benson <nemonews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >On 18/07/2013 20:24, Steve Hayes wrote: >> One of my ancestors is described in the 1851 census as a "sworn corn miler". >> >> Anyone know what that is? >> >> I assume that "miler" is a misspelling of "miller", but though I'bve heard of >> sworn appraisers, I've never heard of a sworn corn miller before. > >I presume your ancestor was Thomas Stooke. He was, but how did you know that? Or was he unique in being the only corn miler in all the world, and not a mere device, and therefore easy to find? >I am not convinced that the word is "sworn" - I think it is "Severn." >Not sure how much that helps! -- Steve Hayes Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/ http://hayesgreene.blogspot.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/afgen/

"Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote in message news:g2ggu8t1vagudqrtqunmcs1cmodu1qeuee@4ax.com... > One of my ancestors is described in the 1851 census as a "sworn corn > miler". > > Anyone know what that is? I think it's "Sworn corn meter", for which Google shows plenty of entries. Don't know what one is yet, though.

One of my ancestors is described in the 1851 census as a "sworn corn miler". Anyone know what that is? I assume that "miler" is a misspelling of "miller", but though I'bve heard of sworn appraisers, I've never heard of a sworn corn miller before. -- Steve Hayes Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/ http://hayesgreene.blogspot.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/afgen/

On 18/07/2013 20:24, Steve Hayes wrote: > One of my ancestors is described in the 1851 census as a "sworn corn miler". > > Anyone know what that is? > > I assume that "miler" is a misspelling of "miller", but though I'bve heard of > sworn appraisers, I've never heard of a sworn corn miller before. I presume your ancestor was Thomas Stooke. I am not convinced that the word is "sworn" - I think it is "Severn." Not sure how much that helps! -- Jenny M Benson

Renia wrote: > > > On 17/07/2013 21:24, MB wrote: >> On 18/07/2013 13:37, n-ashby wrote: >>> As has been mentioned,Ancestry are discontinuing Old Search. >>> Can some one explain to me,how to use new search. >>> I just checked,on one of my ancesters,by using old search,there was a >>> listing,for his birth,marriage & death,various census and passenger list >>> details and links to possible other connections. >>> I can see none of this on new search and it looks like.I will have to >>> access,the various sets of records,one by one. >> >> Have they actually said they are removing it? > > Yes, I had an email from them today, as "one of the 2% who still use Old Search". > > Q > Based on that, as a part of the work this year we will be bringing together the two search experiences into a > single search experience on Ancestry.co.uk. We hope to bring forward the best features of both the old and new > search systems into the consolidated experience to facilitate the transition for our users and to improve the > overall search experience. We expect to discontinue the old search function as a separate experience within > the next 6 months. > UQ Interesting - as one of the "2%", I have had a letter from them too. I find it strange that Ancestry claim that only 2% use Old Search, given that I don't recall anyone on this group saying they prefer New Search and most posts on the subject are asking how to get back to Old Search ! Since this group is probably pretty representative of any genealogy group, I wonder what % actually do use Old Search. I completed a survey on the two searches not that long ago, I wonder if this is the same one. I guess there's only one way to find out... -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

Mick wrote: >> > Hi all, > Thank you very much for the information you have found. > The bit I cannot find now is the birth name of the mother"Jane" > born around 1807 at Wimborn, Dorset. > > I try to get the mothers birth name from the children's birth details > but thease are that bit too early. > > Thanks again, > Mick IOW. > > www.familysearch.org Jane Lockyer Gender: Female Christening Date: Jun 1806 Christening Place: WIMBORNE MINSTER,DORSET,ENGLAND Mother's Name: Mary Lockyer Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P00413-1 System Origin: England-ODM GS Film number: 0990117 IT 2-3 No father given and *possibly* baptised again 3.5 miles away the next year with father present (he may have been a mariner/soldier) and away at the time of Jane's birth (there was a little war going on at the time) - or again, it may be a different child. Jane Lockyer Gender: Female Christening Date: 09 Aug 1807 Christening Place: Hampreston, Dorset, England Father's Name: Benjamin Lockyer Mother's Name: Mary Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C15897-1 System Origin: England-EASy GS Film number: 1279499 -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com