On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:15:27 -0400, Keith Nuttle <Keith_Nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >On 8/14/2013 10:27 AM, singhals wrote: >> Last week, a patron at my friendly local Family History Center was >> spreading the word that he'd heard that "the PCCs will be offered on a >> subscription plan." He named a "UK Archivist and Digital Documents >> Manager" as his source. >> >> I /assume/ he's talking about the PCC Wills, but why TNA would give up >> the steady income of people paying on-spec for each one they want to see >> for a subscription eludes me. >> Being part of the NA's online pay-per-item records hasn't stopped the Medal Rolls appearing on Ancestry so there is presumably nothing to stop other records getting similar treatment. As for the income I'm not sure if the NA are actually allowed to make a profit rather than comfortably covering their costs. >> Anyway, has anyone else heard this scheme and what can you tell us about >> it? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Cheryl in the USA >> >> > >Just a guess. Could it be a matter of economics. The cost of handling >thousands of charges for a couple of pounds, > They have these things called computers now to do that for fractions of a penny. You might have one yourself ? ;-) > >vs the cost of handling the one time subscription fee. >(I am from the US an putting pounds in there was unnatural;-)

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:19:06 +0100, eve@varneys.org.uk wrote: > 84. >> > > > >> > Assuming the most common change of name upon marriage, this would occur >> > if a man marries his deceased brother's widow. >> >> Marriage to deceased brother's widow wasn't actually legal in 1921 (whereas >> marriage to deceased wife's sister had been since 1908). However, there >> was a lot of it about, and if the authorities didn't spot it, who cared? >If the first husband was a cousin, no problem. >> > Not with the law anyway. My paternal grandparents allegedly caused a lot of family annoyance by marrying and they were second cousins.

On 2013-08-14 14:57:13 +0000, Renia said: > On 14/08/2013 11:12, Tickettyboo wrote: > >> 19th September 1871 Mary Ann Poland, spinster, age 19, father William >> Poland, warehouseman. Married William Wilson age 21, occupation >> Salesman, father John Wilson, painter. Address for both Smithdown Lane. >> Witnesses Charles Girvan(? Girran), Mary Taylor. Church - St Stephen the >> Martyrs. > > In 1881, William Poland, warehouseman, was living at 88 Grey Rock > Street, West Derby (Liverpool), aged 58, born in Liverpool. > > With him were living his wife, Margaret, aged 56, born Liverpool, and > children Jane (18, pupil teacher) and Mary Jane (15, scholar), both > born Liverpool. > > In 1881, they were living at 15 Cazneau Street, Liverpool. William a > coal dealer, then aged 48, born Liverpool. Margaret was aged 46, born > in Scotland. Mary Ann, aged 17, was born in Liverpool. Jane aged 8 and > Mary Jane aged 5 were born born in Liverpool. The children were all > scholars. > > In 1891 they were at 113 Needham Road, West Derby (Liverpool). William > is now a retired warehouseman aged 68. Margaret waa aged 66 born in > Scotland and Mary Jane was an unmarried schoolteacher aged 26. Living > with them was their grandson, John Alex McDowell, aged 8, born in > Liverpool. > > Richard Poland is proving to be more elusive. Thanks Renia and yes, Richard is elusive. For a start there is no birth registration that I can find for him and that census entry you found seems to be the only one in any year with that name/age/birthplace combination. One of these days I am going to apply for retrospective adoption by a less complicated family! -- Tickettyboo

On 14/08/2013 11:12, Tickettyboo wrote: > 19th September 1871 Mary Ann Poland, spinster, age 19, father William > Poland, warehouseman. Married William Wilson age 21, occupation > Salesman, father John Wilson, painter. Address for both Smithdown Lane. > Witnesses Charles Girvan(? Girran), Mary Taylor. Church - St Stephen the > Martyrs. In 1881, William Poland, warehouseman, was living at 88 Grey Rock Street, West Derby (Liverpool), aged 58, born in Liverpool. With him were living his wife, Margaret, aged 56, born Liverpool, and children Jane (18, pupil teacher) and Mary Jane (15, scholar), both born Liverpool. In 1881, they were living at 15 Cazneau Street, Liverpool. William a coal dealer, then aged 48, born Liverpool. Margaret was aged 46, born in Scotland. Mary Ann, aged 17, was born in Liverpool. Jane aged 8 and Mary Jane aged 5 were born born in Liverpool. The children were all scholars. In 1891 they were at 113 Needham Road, West Derby (Liverpool). William is now a retired warehouseman aged 68. Margaret waa aged 66 born in Scotland and Mary Jane was an unmarried schoolteacher aged 26. Living with them was their grandson, John Alex McDowell, aged 8, born in Liverpool. Richard Poland is proving to be more elusive.

On 14/08/2013 11:12, Tickettyboo wrote: > 8th August 1898 , Q3 1898 Liverpool 8b 137, Marriage certificate. > John Wilson age 25, Bachelor, occupation Fitter, address 8 Moor (or > possibly Moon) Street, father: William Wilson occupation: Sample Man > Mary Cochrane, age 22, spinster, no occupation, address 6 Boundary > Place, father William Cochrane occupation Tin Smith > Witnesses George Moor and Susannah Dean (no bells ringing for those names) > Marriage took place at St Mary Magdalen In 1891, 8 Moon Street, Liverpool, was a boarding house. (None of the names you mention was living there at the time.) In 1891, Richard Poland, an unmarried packing-case maker was living there. He was aged 28 and born in Liverpool.

On 2013-08-14 13:35:05 +0000, wtwjgc (Joe) said: > Tickettyboo <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote: >> On 2013-08-14 11:29:09 +0000, Anne Chambers said: >> >>> Tickettyboo wrote: >>>>> If there is anyone who has had the stamina to read all this and has a >>>>>>> bit of stamina left over to give it some >>>> thought and pass comment/put forward suggestions I would 'really' >> >>>> appreciate it. >>> You could try getting this birth certificate - there are only two > >>> Fredericks registered in Liverpool between 1871 and 1875 >>>> Births Jun 1872 >>> Wilson Frederick Liverpool 8b 16 >> >> Thanks Anne, I 'had' seen that but not too sure that it would get me any >> further forward (even if it shows that he was the child of William Wilson >> and Mary Ann Poland) to establishing a link between 'my' adult John >> Wilson and the child I am seeing on the census as the step son of Thomas >> Collins. That is my main sticking point. I can see that Mary Ann did have >> children called Frederick, John and Elizabeth Gertrude but John Wilson >> was such a common name that its really difficult to establish if he was mine. >> I had a similar situation with another ancestor, that one took me 7 years >> to sort out and in the end I settled for the 1939 National ID record >> which finally gave me the adult ancestors d.o.b. - that then gave me >> enough info to link her into the birth cert I had. As John died in 1923 >> that's not an option in this case so I am struggling to get some sort >> of definite link. >> Any thoughts on 'any' other sort of late 1800s / early 1900s records that >> would have an adult's d.o.b. on? My only other thought would be (ever >> hopeful) a gravestone which handily had birth- death dates on, but so far >> I can't establish where he was buried. I will keep plodding away at it >> though :-) > > Have you tried here? <https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch> Hi Joe, yes thanks, but unfortunately no record of him. I will have to try to get to Liverpool I suppose and and see if I can find anything in the archives now that they have finally finished the new library. -- Tickettyboo

On 2013-08-14 11:29:09 +0000, Anne Chambers said: > Tickettyboo wrote: > >> If there is anyone who has had the stamina to read all this and has a >> bit of stamina left over to give it some >> thought and pass comment/put forward suggestions I would 'really' >> appreciate it. > You could try getting this birth certificate - there are only two > Fredericks registered in Liverpool between 1871 and 1875 > > Births Jun 1872 > Wilson Frederick Liverpool 8b 16 Thanks Anne, I 'had' seen that but not too sure that it would get me any further forward (even if it shows that he was the child of William Wilson and Mary Ann Poland) to establishing a link between 'my' adult John Wilson and the child I am seeing on the census as the step son of Thomas Collins. That is my main sticking point. I can see that Mary Ann did have children called Frederick, John and Elizabeth Gertrude but John Wilson was such a common name that its really difficult to establish if he was mine. I had a similar situation with another ancestor, that one took me 7 years to sort out and in the end I settled for the 1939 National ID record which finally gave me the adult ancestors d.o.b. - that then gave me enough info to link her into the birth cert I had. As John died in 1923 that's not an option in this case so I am struggling to get some sort of definite link. Any thoughts on 'any' other sort of late 1800s / early 1900s records that would have an adult's d.o.b. on? My only other thought would be (ever hopeful) a gravestone which handily had birth- death dates on, but so far I can't establish where he was buried. I will keep plodding away at it though :-) -- Tickettyboo

On 8/14/2013 10:27 AM, singhals wrote: > Last week, a patron at my friendly local Family History Center was > spreading the word that he'd heard that "the PCCs will be offered on a > subscription plan." He named a "UK Archivist and Digital Documents > Manager" as his source. > > I /assume/ he's talking about the PCC Wills, but why TNA would give up > the steady income of people paying on-spec for each one they want to see > for a subscription eludes me. > > Anyway, has anyone else heard this scheme and what can you tell us about > it? > > Thanks! > > Cheryl in the USA > > Just a guess. Could it be a matter of economics. The cost of handling thousands of charges for a couple of pounds, vs the cost of handling the one time subscription fee. (I am from the US an putting pounds in there was unnatural;-)

Apologies in advance for the length of this post. I keep revisiting John in the hope that I can finally get back further for this line. I am really stuck but 'have' put in a lot of work before asking for help, so I have included as much info as I can to save anyone who is willing to help from duplicating the effort. John Wilson c1874 - 1923 Definite, documented and checked out info, (working backward from what I already knew): 13th March 1923 Probate Calendar says John Wilson died 8th Feb, address 34 Tunnel Road Probate to widow, Mary Wilson, effects £134 2s 11d 8th Feb 1923, Q1 1923 Liverpool 8b 491 death certificate. Aged 48, address 34 Tunnel Road, occupation Engineer Fitter. Informant Mary Wilson, widow same address 1911 Gores entry : Wilson, John confectioner, 34 Tunnel Road His Grandaughter, (born after John died) says the family had a sweetie shop at 34 Tunnel Road when she was young. 2nd April 1911 Census RG14PN22593 RG78PN1326 RD455 SD9 ED41 SN29, 34 Tunnel Road, Head of House is John Wilson, age 36, occupation Agricultural Engineer, born Liverpool, been married 12 years, wife Mary age 34 plus children : John (11), Frederick (10), Mary (8), Jessie (3) and Dora (4months) - their final child, Stanley, was born in 1919. 31st March 1901 Census Class: RG13;Piece: 3493;Folio: 50;Page: 4, 34 Tunnel Road, Head of House John Wilson, age 26 , occupation Cycle Fitter, born Liverpool, wife Mary age 24, plus John (1) and Fred (4months). 8th August 1898 , Q3 1898 Liverpool 8b 137, Marriage certificate. John Wilson age 25, Bachelor, occupation Fitter, address 8 Moor (or possibly Moon) Street, father: William Wilson occupation: Sample Man Mary Cochrane, age 22, spinster, no occupation, address 6 Boundary Place, father William Cochrane occupation Tin Smith Witnesses George Moor and Susannah Dean (no bells ringing for those names) Marriage took place at St Mary Magdalen All fairly straightforward but I have been struggling for years now to get further back than his marriage. His father's occupation of Sample Man was a first for me and I am working on the assumption that he was some sort of commercial traveller/salesman. I worked through the census returns in 1881/1891 looking for a John Wilson b c 1874 with a Dad called William. Checked ages, occupations etc and tracked them forward to see if can find one that 'fits', cross checked with parish registers for extra info. No joy, nothing which could go into the highly possible file. So, I then started on the John Wilsons who were left on the possibles list. Dad not William but maybe a lodger/nephew/brother/passerby (I am straw clutching here) and there is one which gives me that niggling feeling that it may be 'the' one, but its not writ in stone and there are flaws. 5th April 1891 Census RG number: RG12,Piece: 2992,Folio: 26, Page: 47 Head of House is Thomas Collins age 37, widower occupation Shop Porter, born Ireland 3 daughters with surname Collins - Annie (10), Violet (8), Maud (5) plus John Wilson, Stepson age 16, occupation Apprentice Blacksmith, born Liverpool E G (oh thanks for that, it would have been useful to give her full name!) Stepdaughter, age 12. So, looks like his wife who died was a widow/unmarried mother of 2 when they married c 1880? Going back.. 3rd April 1881 Census RG number: RG11,Piece: 3700,Folio: 75, Page: 34 Head of House is Thomas Collins , age 27, married, occupation Freight Clerk, born Ireland Mary A Collins, wife age 27, born Liverpool Fred Wilson Stepson, age 9, born Liverpool Elizabeth Wilson, age 2, born Liverpool Annie Collins, age 0, born Liverpool plus a bunch of boarders in the house. ? seems to be the same family but no sign of John (who would be 6) and there is a Fred who is 9. 16th November 1879 Mary Ann Wilson, widow, aged 26, father William Poland, warehouseman married Thomas Collins, Bachelor, aged 24, occupation Warehouseman, father John Collins, bricklayer. Address for both: Rathbone Street. Witnesses Alex McDowall, Margaret Thompson. Church - St Nicholas. 19th September 1871 Mary Ann Poland, spinster, age 19, father William Poland, warehouseman. Married William Wilson age 21, occupation Salesman, father John Wilson, painter. Address for both Smithdown Lane. Witnesses Charles Girvan(? Girran), Mary Taylor. Church - St Stephen the Martyrs. There is a baptism for an Elizabeth Gertude Wilson, 5th June 1878, (born 10 May 1878) St Ambrose, Everton. Parents : William & Mary Ann Wilson, 40 Herwood ( I think it should say Harewood ) St., Father 's occupation Clerk. Lots of possibilities for a death registration for William Wilson c1877-1879 I have an entry from the probate calendar for a William Wilson, formerly of Anthony-street but late of Greenwood street both in Everton Liverpool in the county of Lancaster who died 2 December 1877 at Greenwood street proved at Liverpool by Mary Ann Wilson of 40 Harewood street Liverpool Widow the Relict and Willian Poland of 64 Whitefield road Liverpool Warehouseman the Executors. Can't find a baptism for a Fred(erick) born c1872 or John born c1874, but the likely church records (St Stephen/ St Ambrose) are not on ancestry for those dates- though I have searched on all churches too). It kind of 'feels' right, but though my gut feeling is that its possible, I feel I am chasing shadows, I get near to a conclusion and then it slips away from me. If there is anyone who has had the stamina to read all this and has a bit of stamina left over to give it some thought and pass comment/put forward suggestions I would 'really' appreciate it. -- Tickettyboo

Last week, a patron at my friendly local Family History Center was spreading the word that he'd heard that "the PCCs will be offered on a subscription plan." He named a "UK Archivist and Digital Documents Manager" as his source. I /assume/ he's talking about the PCC Wills, but why TNA would give up the steady income of people paying on-spec for each one they want to see for a subscription eludes me. Anyway, has anyone else heard this scheme and what can you tell us about it? Thanks! Cheryl in the USA

84. > > > > > > Assuming the most common change of name upon marriage, this would occur > > if a man marries his deceased brother's widow. > > Marriage to deceased brother's widow wasn't actually legal in 1921 (whereas > marriage to deceased wife's sister had been since 1908). However, there > was a lot of it about, and if the authorities didn't spot it, who cared? If the first husband was a cousin, no problem. > > > EVE > > > Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

Tickettyboo <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote: > On 2013-08-14 11:29:09 +0000, Anne Chambers said: > >> Tickettyboo wrote: >>>> If there is anyone who has had the stamina to read all this and has a >>>> >> bit of stamina left over to give it some >>> thought and pass comment/put forward suggestions I would 'really' >> appreciate it. >> You could try getting this birth certificate - there are only two > >> Fredericks registered in Liverpool between 1871 and 1875 >>> Births Jun 1872 >> Wilson Frederick Liverpool 8b 16 > > Thanks Anne, I 'had' seen that but not too sure that it would get me any > further forward (even if it shows that he was the child of William Wilson > and Mary Ann Poland) to establishing a link between 'my' adult John > Wilson and the child I am seeing on the census as the step son of Thomas > Collins. That is my main sticking point. I can see that Mary Ann did have > children called Frederick, John and Elizabeth Gertrude but John Wilson > was such a common name that its really difficult to establish if he was mine. > I had a similar situation with another ancestor, that one took me 7 years > to sort out and in the end I settled for the 1939 National ID record > which finally gave me the adult ancestors d.o.b. - that then gave me > enough info to link her into the birth cert I had. As John died in 1923 > that's not an option in this case so I am struggling to get some sort of definite link. > Any thoughts on 'any' other sort of late 1800s / early 1900s records that > would have an adult's d.o.b. on? My only other thought would be (ever > hopeful) a gravestone which handily had birth- death dates on, but so far > I can't establish where he was buried. I will keep plodding away at it though :-) Have you tried here? <https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch> -- wtwjgc (Joe)

On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 22:28:47 +0100, Charles Ellson <ce11son@yahoo.ca> wrote: >A remarried war widow ? >Ah-hah! >http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/829260/SHEAF,%20GEORGE%20ARRAN >SHEAF, George Arran >"Son of Alfred Sheaf, of Hurstake, River Side, Newport; husband of >Maud Elizabeth Sheaf, of 39, Crocker St., Newport, Isle of Wight" > >marriage: >MAR 1915 Isle of Wight 2b 1083 George A SHEAF, Maud E SPEARING > >The medal rolls show him as originally in the Hampshire Regiment. > >>Findmypast have a: Maud Emily Shea born Marylebone, London in 1897, >>Volume no: 1A Page no: 529 >> >That matches the image of the index page. Wow, thank you very much. Maud was already in the tree but I did not see any connection! Mick. IOW.

Mick wrote: > It seemed strange but not unbelievable to marry someone with the same > surname, I have 14670 rows in a table of marriages in Almondbury parish for a period covering almost all of the C18th & some of the C19th. There are 257 rows where the bride and groom surnames match exactly - there may be others where there are different variations on the same name but probably not many. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

My mothers family has several Motes who married another Motes. Most were cousins, 1st and 2ND. Once or twice a widow married a brother and made new children! Mike in Ohio On 8/13/2013 4:07 PM, Mick wrote: > Hi all, > I have a "Francis Robert Walter Sheaf" born IOW in 1895. > Volume no:2B Page no: 603 > The only marriage found at Findmypast is to a " Maud E Sheaf" in 1921 > at Camberwell . London. > Volume no: 1D Page no: 1706 > It seemed strange but not unbelievable to marry someone with the same > surname, but I cannot find a birth for > Her (Maud E Sheaf) > Findmypast have a: Maud Emily Shea born Marylebone, London in 1897, > Volume no: 1A Page no: 529 > Also other "SHEA" > Could the end "F" be a mistake? > > Findmypast have a: Hilda Maude E Sheaf born: : Lambeth, London in 1878 > Volume no: 1D Page no: 543 > > IWFHS have a Maud Elizabeth Sheaf who died 1956 aged 66 birth year > 1889 - 1890 Ref: SE7/E335 but no maiden name which they sometimes do > have! > Francis Robert Walter Sheaf died on the IOW Iin1980 aged 84. > > Any thoughts welcomed, > Thanks, Mick IOW. >

My mothers family has several Motes who married another Motes. Most were cousins, 1st and 2ND. Once or twice a widow married a brother and made new children! Mike in Ohio On 8/13/2013 4:07 PM, Mick wrote: > Hi all, > I have a "Francis Robert Walter Sheaf" born IOW in 1895. > Volume no:2B Page no: 603 > The only marriage found at Findmypast is to a " Maud E Sheaf" in 1921 > at Camberwell . London. > Volume no: 1D Page no: 1706 > It seemed strange but not unbelievable to marry someone with the same > surname, but I cannot find a birth for > Her (Maud E Sheaf) > Findmypast have a: Maud Emily Shea born Marylebone, London in 1897, > Volume no: 1A Page no: 529 > Also other "SHEA" > Could the end "F" be a mistake? > > Findmypast have a: Hilda Maude E Sheaf born: : Lambeth, London in 1878 > Volume no: 1D Page no: 543 > > IWFHS have a Maud Elizabeth Sheaf who died 1956 aged 66 birth year > 1889 - 1890 Ref: SE7/E335 but no maiden name which they sometimes do > have! > Francis Robert Walter Sheaf died on the IOW Iin1980 aged 84. > > Any thoughts welcomed, > Thanks, Mick IOW. >

On 13/08/2013 21:07, Mick wrote: > Hi all, > I have a "Francis Robert Walter Sheaf" born IOW in 1895. > Volume no:2B Page no: 603 > The only marriage found at Findmypast is to a " Maud E Sheaf" in 1921 > at Camberwell . London. > Volume no: 1D Page no: 1706 > It seemed strange but not unbelievable to marry someone with the same > surname, but I cannot find a birth for > Her (Maud E Sheaf) > Findmypast have a: Maud Emily Shea born Marylebone, London in 1897, > Volume no: 1A Page no: 529 > Also other "SHEA" > Could the end "F" be a mistake? > > Findmypast have a: Hilda Maude E Sheaf born: : Lambeth, London in 1878 > Volume no: 1D Page no: 543 > > IWFHS have a Maud Elizabeth Sheaf who died 1956 aged 66 birth year > 1889 - 1890 Ref: SE7/E335 but no maiden name which they sometimes do > have! > Francis Robert Walter Sheaf died on the IOW Iin1980 aged 84. > > Any thoughts welcomed, > Thanks, Mick IOW. > Assuming the most common change of name upon marriage, this would occur if a man marries his deceased brother's widow. Maybe look-up levirate marriage? -- Rod

On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 21:07:57 +0100, Mick <mrcycleuk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >Hi all, > I have a "Francis Robert Walter Sheaf" born IOW in 1895. >Volume no:2B Page no: 603 >The only marriage found at Findmypast is to a " Maud E Sheaf" in 1921 >at Camberwell . London. >Volume no: 1D Page no: 1706 >It seemed strange but not unbelievable to marry someone with the same >surname, > Cousins ? >but I cannot find a birth for Her (Maud E Sheaf) > A remarried war widow ? Ah-hah! http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/829260/SHEAF,%20GEORGE%20ARRAN SHEAF, George Arran "Son of Alfred Sheaf, of Hurstake, River Side, Newport; husband of Maud Elizabeth Sheaf, of 39, Crocker St., Newport, Isle of Wight" marriage: MAR 1915 Isle of Wight 2b 1083 George A SHEAF, Maud E SPEARING The medal rolls show him as originally in the Hampshire Regiment. >Findmypast have a: Maud Emily Shea born Marylebone, London in 1897, >Volume no: 1A Page no: 529 > That matches the image of the index page. >Also other "SHEA" >Could the end "F" be a mistake? > >Findmypast have a: Hilda Maude E Sheaf born: : Lambeth, London in 1878 >Volume no: 1D Page no: 543 > >IWFHS have a Maud Elizabeth Sheaf who died 1956 aged 66 birth year >1889 - 1890 Ref: SE7/E335 but no maiden name which they sometimes do >have! >Francis Robert Walter Sheaf died on the IOW Iin1980 aged 84. >

Hi all, I have a "Francis Robert Walter Sheaf" born IOW in 1895. Volume no:2B Page no: 603 The only marriage found at Findmypast is to a " Maud E Sheaf" in 1921 at Camberwell . London. Volume no: 1D Page no: 1706 It seemed strange but not unbelievable to marry someone with the same surname, but I cannot find a birth for Her (Maud E Sheaf) Findmypast have a: Maud Emily Shea born Marylebone, London in 1897, Volume no: 1A Page no: 529 Also other "SHEA" Could the end "F" be a mistake? Findmypast have a: Hilda Maude E Sheaf born: : Lambeth, London in 1878 Volume no: 1D Page no: 543 IWFHS have a Maud Elizabeth Sheaf who died 1956 aged 66 birth year 1889 - 1890 Ref: SE7/E335 but no maiden name which they sometimes do have! Francis Robert Walter Sheaf died on the IOW Iin1980 aged 84. Any thoughts welcomed, Thanks, Mick IOW.

hsubasic wrote, Thursday, July 18, 2013 7:19 AM > Who is she with aspect wild? > The widow'd mother with her child - > Husband waiting for the tomb! Who is she with aspect wild? The widowed mother with her child— Child new stirring in the womb! Husband waiting for the tomb! http://www.bartleby.com/333/671.html