On 18/08/13 20:24, Graeme Wall wrote: > 1900s plural is the decade, just as 1920s plural is the decade. You may use that convention, but a lot of people do use 1900s to mean the century, so the ambiguity is still there. Richard

On 18/08/2013 18:46, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: > In message <mA6Qt.981856$rE.715567@fx05.fr7>, Graeme Wall > <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> writes: >> On 18/08/2013 17:05, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: >>> Can we as a hobby/profession start to abandon using only a month to >>> refer to a quarter, when further precision isn't known? I'd suggest >>> any of >>> >>> Apr-Jun 1891 >>> 1891, Apr-Jun >>> Q2 1891 >>> 1891Q2 >> >> I tend to use <year> Mar/4, Jun/4, Sep/4 and Dec/4 >> > If I saw "2013 Mar/4" in something, I'd be wondering if it meant > 2013-03-04, i. e. the fourth of March. Just saying (-:! Doesn't confuse me as I don't use the ISO format, but I see what you mean. For exact dates I use the form 18 Aug 2013, saves confusing the rebel colonies. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

On 18/08/2013 18:33, Richard Smith wrote: > On 18/08/13 17:05, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: > >> What does the house think (about the suggestion we try to stop using >> just one month to indicate a quarter)? > > I think it's a very good suggestion. Personally, I use '1891-Q2' in my > database (the format being similar to '1891-06-21', which is the > internal date format), and convert it to 'Q2 1891' when displaying it in > a report. > > And while we're on the subject of ambiguous dates, let me mention > another one that causes needless confusion. I often see a decade > referred to as, say, the 1920s. That causes problems for the first > decade of each century. Does the 1900s refer to a decade or a century? > The Ancestry interface suffers from that ambiguity when filtering > censuses. Personally, I use 19xx or 190x. > 1900s plural is the decade, just as 1920s plural is the decade. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

Anne Chambers wrote: > > If you get his marriage certificate to Lucy M Pagett, that will at least tell you who his father was. > Marriages Mar 1926 > Martin James E Pagett Dartford 2a 965 > Pagett Lucy M Martin Dartford 2a 965 > > There is a Lucy M Pagett in the 1901 census in Swanscombe, which indicates that the Swanscombe Martin family is the correct one. RG13; Piece: 706; Folio: 45; Page: 26. Ramsey Cottages, Milton Road, Swanscombe Thomas Pagett 35 Warehouseman Portland Cement Worker b Kent Farrnegham Fanny Pagett 25 b Sussex Wadhurst Lucy M Pagett 5 Kathleen M Pagett 3 Mildred F Pagett 1 all b Swanscombe -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

Anne Chambers wrote: > Ian Goddard wrote: > >> >> Coleraine?? I think you're mixing up Fermoy and Armoy. >> >> Probably the best approach is to eliminate areas known to have local Martin families. N Ireland has Martins >> so I think you could disregard all the entries from Coleraine to Newry. The fact that there are 3 in Dublin >> tends to suggest that there was also a Martin family there. >> >> That leaves just Edenderry, Mountmellick and Dingle. You might be able to eliminate some of those if there >> are any other Martin marriages (bride or groom) in the late 1910s or early 1920s. >> > According to Google maps, Coleraine is 128 km from Fermoy > Mountmellick is 145 km > But that does not mean is is a RD, point taken.... -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

Ian Goddard wrote: > > Coleraine?? I think you're mixing up Fermoy and Armoy. > > Probably the best approach is to eliminate areas known to have local Martin families. N Ireland has Martins > so I think you could disregard all the entries from Coleraine to Newry. The fact that there are 3 in Dublin > tends to suggest that there was also a Martin family there. > > That leaves just Edenderry, Mountmellick and Dingle. You might be able to eliminate some of those if there > are any other Martin marriages (bride or groom) in the late 1910s or early 1920s. > According to Google maps, Coleraine is 128 km from Fermoy Mountmellick is 145 km -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

In message <mA6Qt.981856$rE.715567@fx05.fr7>, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> writes: >On 18/08/2013 17:05, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: >> Can we as a hobby/profession start to abandon using only a month to >> refer to a quarter, when further precision isn't known? I'd suggest any of >> >> Apr-Jun 1891 >> 1891, Apr-Jun >> Q2 1891 >> 1891Q2 > >I tend to use <year> Mar/4, Jun/4, Sep/4 and Dec/4 > If I saw "2013 Mar/4" in something, I'd be wondering if it meant 2013-03-04, i. e. the fourth of March. Just saying (-:! I think perhaps though you're thinking "the March quarter", which (I think!) I'm suggesting is not a good way to think of a quarter, because subconsciously - and, certainly, in someone else's mind who sees it - it may morph into "March", rather than "Q1", thus giving more precision than it has (and having a 2/3 chance of being incorrect too). -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum." Translation: "Garbage in, garbage out."

On 18/08/13 17:05, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: > What does the house think (about the suggestion we try to stop using > just one month to indicate a quarter)? I think it's a very good suggestion. Personally, I use '1891-Q2' in my database (the format being similar to '1891-06-21', which is the internal date format), and convert it to 'Q2 1891' when displaying it in a report. And while we're on the subject of ambiguous dates, let me mention another one that causes needless confusion. I often see a decade referred to as, say, the 1920s. That causes problems for the first decade of each century. Does the 1900s refer to a decade or a century? The Ancestry interface suffers from that ambiguity when filtering censuses. Personally, I use 19xx or 190x. Richard

On 18-08-2013 17:23, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: > In message <Me-dnTccafS7Oo3PnZ2dnUVZ8qednZ2d@bt.com>, MB > <MB@nospam.nospam> writes: >> On 17/08/2013 16:55, Richard van Schaik wrote: >>> I mostly do it out of hand as most (Dutch) archives won't allow tripods >>> and do not like monopods either. Fixed setting at ISO 400, no flash on a >>> very simple 5MP camera gives me mostly very well readable and sharp >>> pictures. Only wintertime later in the afternoon light might get so low >>> that it becomes more difficult. >> >> >> I have thought of trying a cheap multi-LED light to illuminate the >> subject, you can get proper ones for the camere but plenty of cheaper >> general purpose ones around. > > Surely a film viewer is basically a projector? Won't any sort of extra > lighting just reduce the contrast, like in the old days when people > tried to photograph their TV screens with flashbulbs? Never use extra lighting when making a photograph from a viewer for just the reason above. Even take care with light from outside as that might mirror in the glass of the projector and also reduces contrast. When photographing originals or copies thereof light from outside (especially on cloudy days) works best. Richard -- Richard van Schaik f.m.a.vanschaikREMOVE@THISgmail.com http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/ The world is one big madhouse and this is main office.

On 18/08/2013 17:05, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: > Can we as a hobby/profession start to abandon using only a month to > refer to a quarter, when further precision isn't known? I'd suggest any of > > Apr-Jun 1891 > 1891, Apr-Jun > Q2 1891 > 1891Q2 I tend to use <year> Mar/4, Jun/4, Sep/4 and Dec/4 -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

[] >Births Jun 1891 >Martin James Elias Gravesend 2a 538 [] (Deliberately deleted poster details as this isn't specific to that poster.) I presume from the "2a 538" that this is from a BMD index. I'm sure most of us here know this, but it will mislead newcomers to the hobby: these indexes are divided into quarter years, so the above really means "April, May, or June 1891" (plus see last paragraph below). Unfortunately, I have seen such referred to as both "Apr 1891" and "Jun 1891", so there isn't any consistency. Can we as a hobby/profession start to abandon using only a month to refer to a quarter, when further precision isn't known? I'd suggest any of Apr-Jun 1891 1891, Apr-Jun Q2 1891 1891Q2 (with my personal preference being for the last one). It'll be a long haul, not least because both Ancestry and FreeBMD use this form in _some_ of their output (I'm not sure whether FMP do). [Ancestry have even mangled it further: they've _tried_ to fix it, but then let it pass through another interpreter stage that turned "1" into "Jan", so I've sometimes seen "QJan-Jan-Feb-Mar" (or something very like that) in Ancestry output.] What does the house think (about the suggestion we try to stop using just one month to indicate a quarter)? (And yes, I do know that there's further ambiguity in that a BMD may be registered in the following quarter. I feel my preferred option of 1891Q2 makes that possibility very slightly more obvious, though I'm not sure why I feel that.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf There's nothing wrong with looking at cake. - Sarah Millican, Radio Times 10-16 December 2011

David Love wrote: > (b) his marriage in Ireland? > The Buffs were, according to their regimental history, only in Ireland (Fermoy) between 1920 and January 1922, so that limits the date of his marriage Ancestry have these possibilities (no James Elias or James E Martin) James Martin Jul-Aug-Sep 1920 Dublin South James Martin Jul-Aug-Sep 1920 Banbridge James Martin Jul-Aug-Sep 1920 Newry James Martin Jul-Aug-Sep 1920 Belfast James Martin Jan-Feb-Mar 1920 Dingle James Martin Oct-Nov-Dec 1920 Belfast James Martin Oct-Nov-Dec 1920 Edenderry James Martin Apr-May-Jun 1920 Newtownards James Martin Jul-Aug-Sep 1921 Belfast James Martin Apr-May-Jun 1921 Dublin South James Martin Jan-Feb-Mar 1921 Dublin South James Martin Jan-Feb-Mar 1921 Coleraine James Martin Jan-Feb-Mar 1921 Belfast James Martin Jan-Feb-Mar 1921 Mountmellick James Martin Jan-Feb-Mar 1921 Belfast James Martin Apr-May-Jun 1921 Downpatrick The closest to Fermoy would be Coleraine or Mountmellick and they're not particularly close There are these births registered in Fermoy between 1920 and 1922 Gwendoline Barbara Martin Jul-Aug-Sep 1920 Fermoy Mary Martin Jul-Aug-Sep 1920 Fermoy Bridget Martin Jan-Feb-Mar 1922 Fermoy If you get his marriage certificate to Lucy M Pagett, that will at least tell you who his father was. Marriages Mar 1926 Martin James E Pagett Dartford 2a 965 Pagett Lucy M Martin Dartford 2a 965 -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

In message <b79u2vFaqr8U1@mid.individual.net>, Tickettyboo <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> writes: >Everyone gave me so much help with my quest for John Duncan Bertie >FULTON, I thought I should update, as I now have a copy of his will. Thanks for coming back; interesting. [] >As far as finding out about the Fulton Block at RAF Cosford, the many >enquiries I sent out were mostly replied to (no reply from Defence >Infrastructure Organisation which is a bit disappointing). The English >Heritage enquiry route eventually resulted in me contacting the author >of a report on which the heritage status is based. He kindly replied >but his sources were given as 'local knowledge' and info in the Mess. >The fact that the block was named for JDBF does seem to be common >knowledge as is the bequest by "Lady Fulton' to build it, but for the >mo I am back at a standstill to find any info on just who she may have been. > > Were you able to actually visit the block itself, to see if it had any plaque (inside or out), "foundation" stone (not necessarily at ground level - the one for my school is _over_ the front door!), or similar? (Possibly overgrown/overpainted?) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf ... would have me up before Lord Justice Leveson before you could say "I simply can't recall". - Eddie Mair, Radio Times 14-20 July 2012

I am doing some research for a friend in England. It is proving a tad difficult to unravel fact from fiction with husband's grandfather. His name was James Elias MARTIN and he was born in 1891, in Kent. Family recollections recall he served with "The Buffs" in WW1 and took part in some of the major battles. It is said that in the 1920s he was posted to Ireland. While there he married and that resulted in two/three children. His wife died and in 1926 he married Lucy Maud PAGETT, in Kent. He continued in the Army and at one stage was a Sergeant Major. Where can I find information about: (a) his military service? (b) his marriage in Ireland? I have been into familysearch and looked at the Births and Marriages for MARTIN but James Elias I cannot find. Any assistance is most welcome. David -- David Love In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies.

In message <Me-dnTccafS7Oo3PnZ2dnUVZ8qednZ2d@bt.com>, MB <MB@nospam.nospam> writes: >On 17/08/2013 16:55, Richard van Schaik wrote: >> I mostly do it out of hand as most (Dutch) archives won't allow tripods >> and do not like monopods either. Fixed setting at ISO 400, no flash on a >> very simple 5MP camera gives me mostly very well readable and sharp >> pictures. Only wintertime later in the afternoon light might get so low >> that it becomes more difficult. > > >I have thought of trying a cheap multi-LED light to illuminate the >subject, you can get proper ones for the camere but plenty of cheaper >general purpose ones around. Surely a film viewer is basically a projector? Won't any sort of extra lighting just reduce the contrast, like in the old days when people tried to photograph their TV screens with flashbulbs? -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf ... would have me up before Lord Justice Leveson before you could say "I simply can't recall". - Eddie Mair, Radio Times 14-20 July 2012

David Love wrote: > I am doing some research for a friend in England. It is proving a tad > difficult to unravel fact from fiction with husband's grandfather. > > His name was James Elias MARTIN and he was born in 1891, in Kent. Family > recollections recall he served with "The Buffs" in WW1 and took part in some > of the major battles. It is said that in the 1920s he was posted to Ireland. > While there he married and that resulted in two/three children. His wife > died and in 1926 he married Lucy Maud PAGETT, in Kent. He continued in the > Army and at one stage was a Sergeant Major. > > Where can I find information about: > > (a) his military service? > > (b) his marriage in Ireland? > > I have been into familysearch and looked at the Births and Marriages for > MARTIN but James Elias I cannot find. > > Any assistance is most welcome. > > David > Births Jun 1891 Martin James Elias Gravesend 2a 538 This is possibly him in 1901 - Northfleet is in the Gravesend RD 37 Taunton Road, Swanscombe Kent James Martin 40 Cement labourer b Gravesend Mildred Martin 37 b Gravesend Richard Martin 19 General Labourer b Gravesend Charles Martin 15 b Gravesend Ellen Martin 13 b Gravesend Fred A Martin 6 b Northfleet Mildred Martin 8 b Northfleet Hetty Martin 1 b Northfleet James Martin 10 b Northfleet The family is still in Swanscombe in 1911 but without James - perhaps he had already joined the army by then There are no WW1 medal record cards for James Elias Martin or James E Martin for the East Kent regiment but two possibilities for James Martin Name: James Martin Regiment or Corps: Royal Sussex Regiment, East Kent Regiment, Hampshire Regiment Regimental Number: 4502, 12877, 04947 Name: James Martin Regiment or Corps: Middlesex Regiment, East Kent Regiment Regimental Number: 61540, G/14529 other possibilities J E Martin East Kent Regiment, East Kent Regiment 2078, 200426 J E Martin 1st East Kent Regiment L/8860 (sergeant) J E Martin Kent Cyclist Battalion, East Kent Regiment, East Kent Regiment 7327, G/15642, 265343 J Martin East Kent Regiment 200426 (cpl) You could try The Buffs museum http://www.armymuseums.org.uk/amot-search/default.asp?Category=Amot&Service=Museum-Display&reference=0000000020 There is an ancestor research service http://www.armymuseums.org.uk/ancestor.htm Information on requesting military records http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

On 18/08/2013 11:51, MB wrote: > On 17/08/2013 16:55, Richard van Schaik wrote: >> I mostly do it out of hand as most (Dutch) archives won't allow tripods >> and do not like monopods either. Fixed setting at ISO 400, no flash on a >> very simple 5MP camera gives me mostly very well readable and sharp >> pictures. Only wintertime later in the afternoon light might get so low >> that it becomes more difficult. > > > I have thought of trying a cheap multi-LED light to illuminate the > subject, you can get proper ones for the camere but plenty of cheaper > general purpose ones around. The snag with the cheap ones is that the light output is very non-linear and can confuse the camera sensor. You can get odd colour spikes that may obscure parts of the document you are trying to photograph. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

Anne Chambers wrote: > Ian Goddard wrote: > >> >> Coleraine?? I think you're mixing up Fermoy and Armoy. >> >> Probably the best approach is to eliminate areas known to have local >> Martin families. N Ireland has Martins >> so I think you could disregard all the entries from Coleraine to >> Newry. The fact that there are 3 in Dublin >> tends to suggest that there was also a Martin family there. >> >> That leaves just Edenderry, Mountmellick and Dingle. You might be >> able to eliminate some of those if there >> are any other Martin marriages (bride or groom) in the late 1910s or >> early 1920s. >> > According to Google maps, Coleraine is 128 km from Fermoy > Mountmellick is 145 km > Good old Google Maps. If you select Ireland as your location and search for Coleraine it appears to interpret it as the Republic and not the whole island! It then only finds Coleraine Co Laois and puts the flag on an empty stretch of road. Presumably it's just the name of one of the nearby farms. The registration district of Coleraine will be the area around the town of that name on the Bann estuary near the north coast. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

On 17/08/2013 19:38, Lesley Robertson wrote: > "Phil C." wrote in message news:RrednYuifrILI5HPnZ2dnUVZ8n-dnZ2d@bt.com... > > > If a Sheaf did marry a Sheaf, I expect this would be the hymn sung at > the wedding <http://tinyurl.com/ogrbkoe> > I hadn't heard that one. I've been hearing the strains of "Coming though > the Rye" since I saw Eve's header... > Lesley Robertson I only remembered "Bringing In The Sheaves" from the film "The African Queen". -- Phil C.

On 18/08/2013 05:27, David Love wrote: > I am doing some research for a friend in England. It is proving a tad > difficult to unravel fact from fiction with husband's grandfather. > > His name was James Elias MARTIN and he was born in 1891, in Kent. Family > recollections recall he served with "The Buffs" in WW1 and took part in some > of the major battles. If no luck, is it worth widening search to include the "Young Buffs" (Surrey etc)? -- Phil C.