Hi, I have put together a series of lists of all the titles in all of the Digitalised Online British and Irish Newspaper I am aware of and which may be very helpful to identify whether a title is available and is so what dates could be available and where you can locate it based on the data provided by the sites (see link below). The Lists are split England (excluding London), London (which splits between Local newspapers and National Titles), Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Channel Islands, and Isle of Man. Most are sorted by County and then Town except London (which is a large file) which I have chosen to sort by title (which means titles from the 17th Century could be next to those for the 20th Century). This is a first attempt and there will be errors and omissions - not all papers printed within a given date range may be available (my experience of bound volumes is .. unlike books .. they may not be complete) . If you do look and spot any errors please let me know. Once it has settled down I will update it again before Christmas [I'll tidy up the various Times titles and links later today] Very Best Richard Heaton http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dutillieul/BritishandIrishNews.html

Renia wrote: > What the man needs to do, is change his name by deed poll, It's a more subtle (and possibly more stupid) problem than that. What he needs to do is *prove* that he's the person named on birth certificate as XXX YYY rather than ZZZ as given in his passport etc. In effect changing his name by deed poll simply repeats the claim that he was XXX YYY and says is now ZZZ. But it doesn't prove the claim. ISTM a rather stupid problem because the security check is on him, the person described and shown in the photograph in the passport, all the rest of the documentation and any other evidence the check might throw up as ZZZ. If all that evidence shows him to be suitable then the birth certificate isn't going to add to the sum of human knowledge. I think it rather depends on what the nature of the check is. If it's an internal HR tick list mandated by ISO9000 or the like then he may be doomed as such methods are designed to eliminate all possibility of the intervention of intelligent thought. If they're just gathering a load of data to ship off to Special Branch or whoever it is who does the checks then I'd have thought the professionals should be able to work round it - it's not likely to be a novel problem for them. But even in the latter case HR may still have the tick list to fill before they think they can proceed (and as it's HR I'm using the word "think" in its loosest possible sense). -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

Yes thanks I had found that, on a later census she is Melinda, 1871 they get it right ;-) and he is a Marble Mason, thanks for looking "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:gKk4fSb0HNGSFw3z@soft255.demon.co.uk... > In message <s62dnXVjT5mtJ4jPnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Kiwi in Aus > <Wwftw_98@Yahoo.com> writes: >>I have Francis PASCOE born 1819 in Constantine, Cornwall, England >>Married Belinda MINERS born 7 Feb 1819 in Ladock, Cornwall, England >>their first Child Belinda PASCOE was born 1841 in Falmouth, Cornwall, >>England >> >>I can't find a marriage for Francis and Belinda, any ideas, I do have the >>rest of their children, just no marriage >> > No luck either, but - had you already found this one? I found her > (transcribed as Bolenda Pascoe, 20) with Belinda 2 Mo, but _without_ > Francis, in Falmouth in the 1841; there's something written by them, > unfortunately crossed through: the first word I'm pretty sure is husband, > but the second word could be ov/er, ostler (though I don't think so - I > can only see five letters), ovlev, or anything similar. (Could it be > ov/something meaning overseas?) Appears to be "High Street". > -- > J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf > > New research shows that three to five cups of coffee a day will cut the > risk of > Alzheimer's by about 60 per cent. There is also good evidence that tea is > good > for memory. - Michael Mosley interviewed in Radio Times, 7-13 February > 2009

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 00:54:00 +0100, Renia <renia@otenet.gr> wrote: >On 24/08/2013 12:58, brightside S9 wrote: >> I'll ask the question here first, and then try uk.legal >> >> I have a friend who's birth was registered as forename 1 (let's say >> XXX) forname 2 (let's say YYY) and surname. (I know that it can >> happen, my wife registred the birth of my first son in hospital as the >> registrar came round the maternity ward and named him without my >> presence). >> >> My friend *thinks / guesses* that some family disagrrements over >> these registerd fornames led to him always being called with a >> forename ZZZ. >> >> His his baptismal certificate, driving licence, passport, employment >> records, bank account, credit and debit cards, NI records, and >> marriage certificate are all shown with forename ZZZ. >> >> He has known that his birth certificate doesn't show the ZZZ forename >> for some time but this has not raised any concerns for him until now. >> >> He has applied for a job which requires considerable security >> checking. Needless to say this forname discrepancy on the birth >> certificate aginst all the other documents listed above has resulted >> in him failing the security check *unless* he can prove that >> XXX-YYY-surname is the same person as ZZZ-surname. His parents are >> long deceased and no living family member has any idea why his birth >> registration forenames were unacceptable to either his mother, father >> or other family member and who chose to call him by the ZZZ forename. >> >> ISTR that it is permissable to call oneself any name one chooses >> provided it is not for nefarious purposes. But how could a neme change >> be made 'official', after 55 years of being known as ZZZ surname'? >> >> Has any of the contributors to this newsgroup come across such a >> situation as this before, and any ideas what he should do to prove >> that XXX-YYY-surname is the same person as ZZZ-surname. > >Renia is not the name on my birth or baptism certificates, but it is the >name I've always been known by. Same for my brother. However, the NHI, >the Passport Office and the Taxman all know me by the name on my birth >certificate. > >It is perfectly legal, in the UK, to be known by whatever name you like >. . . >but > >when it comes to officialdom, such as I mention above (Taxes, Passport) >then they need to know the name on your birth certificate. > >If your friend has never applied for a passport, then he may need to to >change his name by deed poll to the name by which is has been known all >his life. > >(I thought I'd posted this, but it's been sitting here, waiting for me >to click send!)

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 00:55:36 +0100, Renia <renia@otenet.gr> wrote: >On 24/08/2013 23:48, Charles Ellson wrote: >> On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 23:26:27 +0100, Renia <renia@otenet.gr> wrote: >> >>> >>> On 24/08/2013 17:03, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: >>> >>>> Can you give us _any_ more details (names, places)? Either by posting or >>>> email if you don't want to make them public? (I have some security >>>> clearance - though you only have my word for that, but I can give you >>>> [privately] my works address which would go some way to showing you. >>>> Though other than search the BMD records [which anyone here could do] - >>>> and Medway area parish ones, which are the only ones I know my way >>>> around, if that's where he was baptised - I'm not sure I could help much.) >>> >>> >>> Why on earth do you want more details about a personal matter? >>> >>> What the man needs to do, is change his name by deed poll, >>> >> I doubt if he needs to and it might interfere with the continuity >> required to verify the connection between his birth identity and his >> current identity. A deed poll involves more than just a name change, >> part of the process is the permanent renunciation of your name as used >> prior to the change which appears to be incompatible with what is >> required. > >Well, it's a renunciation of the name which appears on his birth >certificate, > No, it is a non-reversible and inappropriate process :- "I absolutely and entirely renounce relinquish and abandon the use of my old name and assume adopt and determine to take and use from the date of this Deed my new name in substitution for my old name. I shall at all times from this date in all records documents and other writings and in all actions and proceedings as well as in all dealings and transactions and on all occasions use my new name in substitution for my old name." [Ministry of Justice form LOC020 - CHANGE OF NAME DEED intended for enrolling in the Central Office of the Senior Courts of England and Wales] The current name ("my old name") is the wanted one and merely requires appropriate documentation that the person bearing it is the same as the person described by a name in the birth registration which is not an exact match and is probably a far from rare matter. A statutary declaration does that job for most purposes including the issue of a passport. >and that's what he needs to do. Or else prove he is the >same person as the person to whom that birth certificate belongs.

On 24/08/2013 23:48, Charles Ellson wrote: > On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 23:26:27 +0100, Renia <renia@otenet.gr> wrote: > >> >> On 24/08/2013 17:03, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: >> >>> Can you give us _any_ more details (names, places)? Either by posting or >>> email if you don't want to make them public? (I have some security >>> clearance - though you only have my word for that, but I can give you >>> [privately] my works address which would go some way to showing you. >>> Though other than search the BMD records [which anyone here could do] - >>> and Medway area parish ones, which are the only ones I know my way >>> around, if that's where he was baptised - I'm not sure I could help much.) >> >> >> Why on earth do you want more details about a personal matter? >> >> What the man needs to do, is change his name by deed poll, >> > I doubt if he needs to and it might interfere with the continuity > required to verify the connection between his birth identity and his > current identity. A deed poll involves more than just a name change, > part of the process is the permanent renunciation of your name as used > prior to the change which appears to be incompatible with what is > required. Well, it's a renunciation of the name which appears on his birth certificate, and that's what he needs to do. Or else prove he is the same person as the person to whom that birth certificate belongs.

On 24/08/2013 12:58, brightside S9 wrote: > I'll ask the question here first, and then try uk.legal > > I have a friend who's birth was registered as forename 1 (let's say > XXX) forname 2 (let's say YYY) and surname. (I know that it can > happen, my wife registred the birth of my first son in hospital as the > registrar came round the maternity ward and named him without my > presence). > > My friend *thinks / guesses* that some family disagrrements over > these registerd fornames led to him always being called with a > forename ZZZ. > > His his baptismal certificate, driving licence, passport, employment > records, bank account, credit and debit cards, NI records, and > marriage certificate are all shown with forename ZZZ. > > He has known that his birth certificate doesn't show the ZZZ forename > for some time but this has not raised any concerns for him until now. > > He has applied for a job which requires considerable security > checking. Needless to say this forname discrepancy on the birth > certificate aginst all the other documents listed above has resulted > in him failing the security check *unless* he can prove that > XXX-YYY-surname is the same person as ZZZ-surname. His parents are > long deceased and no living family member has any idea why his birth > registration forenames were unacceptable to either his mother, father > or other family member and who chose to call him by the ZZZ forename. > > ISTR that it is permissable to call oneself any name one chooses > provided it is not for nefarious purposes. But how could a neme change > be made 'official', after 55 years of being known as ZZZ surname'? > > Has any of the contributors to this newsgroup come across such a > situation as this before, and any ideas what he should do to prove > that XXX-YYY-surname is the same person as ZZZ-surname. Renia is not the name on my birth or baptism certificates, but it is the name I've always been known by. Same for my brother. However, the NHI, the Passport Office and the Taxman all know me by the name on my birth certificate. It is perfectly legal, in the UK, to be known by whatever name you like . . . but when it comes to officialdom, such as I mention above (Taxes, Passport) then they need to know the name on your birth certificate. If your friend has never applied for a passport, then he may need to to change his name by deed poll to the name by which is has been known all his life. (I thought I'd posted this, but it's been sitting here, waiting for me to click send!)

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 23:26:27 +0100, Renia <renia@otenet.gr> wrote: > >On 24/08/2013 17:03, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: > >> Can you give us _any_ more details (names, places)? Either by posting or >> email if you don't want to make them public? (I have some security >> clearance - though you only have my word for that, but I can give you >> [privately] my works address which would go some way to showing you. >> Though other than search the BMD records [which anyone here could do] - >> and Medway area parish ones, which are the only ones I know my way >> around, if that's where he was baptised - I'm not sure I could help much.) > > >Why on earth do you want more details about a personal matter? > >What the man needs to do, is change his name by deed poll, > I doubt if he needs to and it might interfere with the continuity required to verify the connection between his birth identity and his current identity. A deed poll involves more than just a name change, part of the process is the permanent renunciation of your name as used prior to the change which appears to be incompatible with what is required. >or else use >his passport as proof, if he has one, but sounds like he doesn't have a >passport, or I don't think this problem would have arisen. >

On 24/08/2013 15:29, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: > In message <kv8r25$7jd$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Renia <renia@otenet.gr> > writes: >> On 23/08/2013 23:11, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: > [] >>> Indeed it did - see above. And any newcomer to the hobby should >>> learn fairly soon that something like "Jun 1888 2a 123" is such >>> a reference. My point (in quoting it) was that if, say, the "2a >>> 123" gets separated, what is left is "Jun 1888",, which could >>> easily mislead. >> >> Not if you know what you are doing and learn the discipline of >> genealogy and adapt your database or sheet of paper to allow that a >> reference such as this refers to an event registered in a quarter >> and not the precise > > You're also assuming that anyone via whom the data has passed has > also maintained clearly that it is a quarter. It only takes one link > in the chain to record something as "Jun 1888" rather than "Jun Qtr > 1888" (or _any_ acceptable variation thereon), and everyone who uses > the data after that will at best not know whether it means month or > quarter, at worst assume something that is incorrect (or at least > approx. 2/3 chance of being anyway). It happens all the time. The internet is full of dud data because people don't actually understand how the sources work. >> month of an event. Best to leave it as the year only, without >> mentioning > > I think I'd disagree there - I would never deliberately throw away > information. No, of course not, but you'd log the quarter in the notes section of your program along with the district and page number. Surely? >> quarter references. (And don't let's start on events in December >> not registered till the following March.) It's on a par with the >> date of > > Hoised by your own petard there I think - you meant "the following > March quarter", but that's not what you wrote (-:. (Apart from where > the registration delay was longer than permitted over most of the > period we're discussing, a December event couldn't be registered as > late as March.) Oh, yes it could. Events registered late in one quarter are often not registered until the next quarter's registers. > >> baptism, which is not the same as a date of birth. There could be >> twenty years between the two. > > Indeed! And baptism registers more often _didn't_ record the DOB than > do. (Though sometimes even a curate who usually didn't would do so > for an adult baptism, or even one just a few years after birth. But > you certainly can't rely on him doing so.) Comparatively few baptisms register the date of birth. There were rules and regulations for these things, and they changed over time.

On 24/08/2013 17:03, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: > Can you give us _any_ more details (names, places)? Either by posting or > email if you don't want to make them public? (I have some security > clearance - though you only have my word for that, but I can give you > [privately] my works address which would go some way to showing you. > Though other than search the BMD records [which anyone here could do] - > and Medway area parish ones, which are the only ones I know my way > around, if that's where he was baptised - I'm not sure I could help much.) Why on earth do you want more details about a personal matter? What the man needs to do, is change his name by deed poll, or else use his passport as proof, if he has one, but sounds like he doesn't have a passport, or I don't think this problem would have arisen.

Oxfordshire FHS is looking forward to its Open Day on October 5th at Woodstock, and to welcoming both members and non-members. It should be an excellent day - there will be stands with family history societies, military & museum groups, vendors of family history software, and more. OFHS will have plenty of advisors happy to search our resources for visitors - and particularly we'll have specialists on hand on our wills and our DNA projects. We'll have our full range of parish register transcript & MI CDs on sale, and bring our bookstall. It's a fully level venue, and there'll be plenty of light refreshments on sale. Details at http://www.ofhs.org.uk/OpenDay.html Wendy Chairman, Oxfordshire FHS www.ofhs.org.uk

In message <03b7bc30-ad69-46cc-bbc7-7230fcb4c8af@googlegroups.com>, jburney@talktalk.net writes: >Hello - I am researching Violet Josephine Hambleton (nee Delcourt. Her >father and mother were Pierre Delcourt and Catherine Grisenthwaite. > >From their marraige certificate (1916) Catherine was 31 therefore born >c1885 and Pierre was 41 born c1875. Catherine father is listed as >Henry Grisenthwaite (deceased) and listed as a farmer. > >The only other record I can find is the death of a Catherine Delcourt >in Wales and again her birth is c 1885. Free BMD only shows two >Catherines, one born 1881 and the other 1889. > >I can't find them on the census documents. Is any of this linked to [] *1911*: Grisenthwaites born 1885 ±5 gives 25; they include Catherine daughter 22 occupation servant born Liverpool; head is John, 52, Dock labourer, and Kate, servant, 23, no occupation born Maghull, Lancashire; head is away from home. *1901* same search give 24; they include Catherine, 12, born L'Pool, daughter of John, 41, Grain Sorter, and Cath, servant, 13, born Maghull, domestic servant (head was George F F Bennert). The only Cat* born in Maghull 1888 ± 1 shown in the *1891* census is a Catherine Moorcroft. Her father is Henry! A gardener aged 31. I thought maybe death and adoption? But the only Henry Moorcroft who died 1896±5 born 1860±5 died in Burton upon Trent, which is about 90 miles from Maghull. Don't know if this has helped you or not! -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "We'd agreed to overlook each others' families and everything, and get married" (The Trouble with Harry)

In message <816h19hllpmofqm9nmurlipve4vncp4me9@4ax.com>, brightside S9 <address@replyto_is_not.invalid> writes: >I'll ask the question here first, and then try uk.legal > >I have a friend who's birth was registered as forename 1 (let's say >XXX) forname 2 (let's say YYY) and surname. (I know that it can [] (When - roughly if you want - was this? Oh - see below.) [] >His his baptismal certificate, driving licence, passport, employment >records, bank account, credit and debit cards, NI records, and >marriage certificate are all shown with forename ZZZ. Does his baptismal certificate show his date of birth (as well as baptism)? What other details (names, ages, address, occupation of parents? Godparents?) does it show? Might be worth getting a copy of his entry in the baptismal _register_: this might have useful notes, either in the columns or as a marginal note. Where was the baptism? A lot of such records are now online (some free some not) now. > >He has known that his birth certificate doesn't show the ZZZ forename >for some time but this has not raised any concerns for him until now. How did he get this birth certificate? He could look up the quarters around his birth, under his surname and mother's maiden name, to see how many babies were born to such a person around that time in that registration district (if he's lucky and has an unusual name - or she had an unusual maiden surname - it could be very few), and if necessary get the GRO (doubtless at some high fee) to verify what he finds (e. g. by providing certified copies of the index pages). If that proved he is who he thinks he is, of course! What information is on the BC - presumably names of parents (possibly maiden name?), address, and possibly occupation. And details of the informant - is that someone other than father or mother, who may be alive and contactable? > >He has applied for a job which requires considerable security >checking. Needless to say this forname discrepancy on the birth >certificate aginst all the other documents listed above has resulted >in him failing the security check *unless* he can prove that >XXX-YYY-surname is the same person as ZZZ-surname. His parents are >long deceased and no living family member has any idea why his birth Are the godparents alive? They in fact might well know the reason for the name change. >registration forenames were unacceptable to either his mother, father >or other family member and who chose to call him by the ZZZ forename. > >ISTR that it is permissable to call oneself any name one chooses >provided it is not for nefarious purposes. But how could a neme change >be made 'official', after 55 years of being known as ZZZ surname'? Ah, so he was born around 1958. (Whereabouts?) > >Has any of the contributors to this newsgroup come across such a >situation as this before, and any ideas what he should do to prove (Not I!) >that XXX-YYY-surname is the same person as ZZZ-surname. I think Ian Goddard's suggestion of asking the potential employer what proof _they_ want would be a good start: as he says, it might make them think. > >Thanks. Can you give us _any_ more details (names, places)? Either by posting or email if you don't want to make them public? (I have some security clearance - though you only have my word for that, but I can give you [privately] my works address which would go some way to showing you. Though other than search the BMD records [which anyone here could do] - and Medway area parish ones, which are the only ones I know my way around, if that's where he was baptised - I'm not sure I could help much.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "We'd agreed to overlook each others' families and everything, and get married" (The Trouble with Harry)

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:58:28 +0100, brightside S9 <address@replyto_is_not.invalid> wrote: >I'll ask the question here first, and then try uk.legal > >I have a friend who's birth was registered as forename 1 (let's say >XXX) forname 2 (let's say YYY) and surname. (I know that it can >happen, my wife registred the birth of my first son in hospital as the >registrar came round the maternity ward and named him without my >presence). > >My friend *thinks / guesses* that some family disagrrements over >these registerd fornames led to him always being called with a >forename ZZZ. > >His his baptismal certificate, driving licence, passport, employment >records, bank account, credit and debit cards, NI records, and >marriage certificate are all shown with forename ZZZ. > >He has known that his birth certificate doesn't show the ZZZ forename >for some time but this has not raised any concerns for him until now. > >He has applied for a job which requires considerable security >checking. Needless to say this forname discrepancy on the birth >certificate aginst all the other documents listed above has resulted >in him failing the security check *unless* he can prove that >XXX-YYY-surname is the same person as ZZZ-surname. His parents are >long deceased and no living family member has any idea why his birth >registration forenames were unacceptable to either his mother, father >or other family member and who chose to call him by the ZZZ forename. > >ISTR that it is permissable to call oneself any name one chooses >provided it is not for nefarious purposes. But how could a neme change >be made 'official', after 55 years of being known as ZZZ surname'? > >Has any of the contributors to this newsgroup come across such a >situation as this before, and any ideas what he should do to prove >that XXX-YYY-surname is the same person as ZZZ-surname. > Make a statutary declaration, see the first page of :- https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/118551/statutory-declarations.pdf WRT their use in connection with passports. Apart from the declaration re the 1835 Act mentioned, there would presumably need to be included for reasons of usability specific references to official records providing a chain of information (birth and marriage registrations, current and past addresses). IMU an NI number is not regarded as reliable proof of identity unlike an NHS number whose associated record should cover him from birth to the present day if he always lived in the UK; although now using a different number format, the NHS record number systems have their roots in the WW2 identity card system. If he was born in Scotland then see also :- http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/regscot/change-of-name.html

jburney@talktalk.net wrote: > Hello - I am researching Violet Josephine Hambleton (nee Delcourt. Her father and mother were Pierre Delcourt and Catherine Grisenthwaite. > > From their marraige certificate (1916) Catherine was 31 therefore born c1885 and Pierre was 41 born c1875. Catherine father is listed as Henry Grisenthwaite (deceased) and listed as a farmer. > > The only other record I can find is the death of a Catherine Delcourt in Wales and again her birth is c 1885. Free BMD only shows two Catherines, one born 1881 and the other 1889. > > I can't find them on the census documents. Is any of this linked to your tree. I would appreciate any information. > > I have a copy of the marraige certificate if you would like it. > Firstly, you seem to be under the impression that you're addressing a single person. In fact you're posting to a newsgroup (see our FAQ at http://www.genealogy-britain.org.uk/ ). Secondly, have you tried looking at familysearch? FS lists couple called John & Catherine Grisenthwaite of Edge Hill had a number of children two of whom had Kate as one of their names. Ada Kate was bapt 1885. Possibly she is your Catherine. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

In message <s62dnXVjT5mtJ4jPnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Kiwi in Aus <Wwftw_98@Yahoo.com> writes: >I have Francis PASCOE born 1819 in Constantine, Cornwall, England >Married Belinda MINERS born 7 Feb 1819 in Ladock, Cornwall, England >their first Child Belinda PASCOE was born 1841 in Falmouth, Cornwall, >England > >I can't find a marriage for Francis and Belinda, any ideas, I do have >the rest of their children, just no marriage > No luck either, but - had you already found this one? I found her (transcribed as Bolenda Pascoe, 20) with Belinda 2 Mo, but _without_ Francis, in Falmouth in the 1841; there's something written by them, unfortunately crossed through: the first word I'm pretty sure is husband, but the second word could be ov/er, ostler (though I don't think so - I can only see five letters), ovlev, or anything similar. (Could it be ov/something meaning overseas?) Appears to be "High Street". -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf New research shows that three to five cups of coffee a day will cut the risk of Alzheimer's by about 60 per cent. There is also good evidence that tea is good for memory. - Michael Mosley interviewed in Radio Times, 7-13 February 2009

brightside S9 wrote: > > Has any of the contributors to this newsgroup ... any ideas what he should do to prove > that XXX-YYY-surname is the same person as ZZZ-surname. > He could, of course, simply ask them what sort of proof would be acceptable to them given the circumstances. If nothing else it might start them thinking sufficiently to re-evaluate what they've got. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

Charlie wrote: > On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:58:28 +0100, brightside S9 wrote: > >> I'll ask the question here first, and then try uk.legal >> >> I have a friend who's birth was registered as forename 1 (let's say >> XXX) forname 2 (let's say YYY) and surname. (I know that it can >> happen, my wife registred the birth of my first son in hospital as the >> registrar came round the maternity ward and named him without my >> presence). %>< > To cut a (very) long story short he found that the solution /for him/ was > to swear an affidavit before a Commissioner for Oaths that he was the said > Walter Joseph XXX known as Joseph Walter XXX. He duly received his > pension. Caution, this was in the 1960s, things change. The problem is that this might not count as /proof/ for the current problem. But it might be a start if he can get a number of witnesses, preferably including close family, who have known him from childhood and can also swear affidavits that they have always known ZZZ as the son of the parents named on the birth certificate of XXX YYY and to have always celebrated his birthday on the date given and to have always given an age which agrees with that date etc. and that they believe that, despite the discrepancy on the certificate, that ZZZ is, in fact, XXX YYY. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:58:28 +0100, brightside S9 wrote: > I'll ask the question here first, and then try uk.legal > > I have a friend who's birth was registered as forename 1 (let's say > XXX) forname 2 (let's say YYY) and surname. (I know that it can > happen, my wife registred the birth of my first son in hospital as the > registrar came round the maternity ward and named him without my > presence). I had an uncle in a very similar position when it came time to claim his OAP. He'd never seen, and never needed a Birth Certificate all his lfe. despite volunteering for and serving in the RAF. he then discovered that he could not find a Birth Certificate in his exact names of Joseph Walter XXX. He did find a Walter Joseph XXX born in the right place on the date he had ben told was his birthday. His siblings had all been correctly registered. To cut a (very) long story short he found that the solution /for him/ was to swear an affidavit before a Commissioner for Oaths that he was the said Walter Joseph XXX known as Joseph Walter XXX. He duly received his pension. Caution, this was in the 1960s, things change. Roy

In message <kv8r25$7jd$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Renia <renia@otenet.gr> writes: >On 23/08/2013 23:11, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: [] >> Indeed it did - see above. And any newcomer to the hobby should learn >> fairly soon that something like "Jun 1888 2a 123" is such a >> reference. My point (in quoting it) was that if, say, the "2a 123" >> gets separated, what is left is "Jun 1888",, which could easily >> mislead. > >Not if you know what you are doing and learn the discipline of genealogy >and adapt your database or sheet of paper to allow that a reference such >as this refers to an event registered in a quarter and not the precise You're also assuming that anyone via whom the data has passed has also maintained clearly that it is a quarter. It only takes one link in the chain to record something as "Jun 1888" rather than "Jun Qtr 1888" (or _any_ acceptable variation thereon), and everyone who uses the data after that will at best not know whether it means month or quarter, at worst assume something that is incorrect (or at least approx. 2/3 chance of being anyway). >month of an event. Best to leave it as the year only, without mentioning I think I'd disagree there - I would never deliberately throw away information. >quarter references. (And don't let's start on events in December not >registered till the following March.) It's on a par with the date of Hoised by your own petard there I think - you meant "the following March quarter", but that's not what you wrote (-:. (Apart from where the registration delay was longer than permitted over most of the period we're discussing, a December event couldn't be registered as late as March.) >baptism, which is not the same as a date of birth. There could be twenty >years between the two. Indeed! And baptism registers more often _didn't_ record the DOB than do. (Though sometimes even a curate who usually didn't would do so for an adult baptism, or even one just a few years after birth. But you certainly can't rely on him doing so.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf the best thing to do in your garden at this time of year is to just sit in it and enjoy it - Monty Don, July 2013