"melanie chesnel" wrote in message news:22eacb42-b34c-438e-b8e7-42b389c24e84@googlegroups.com... I just got my copy too, with a much shorter delay than announced. The will was for the right person, but gave few details - he left everything to his mother. It does, however, reinforce a mystery! The paperwork gives his rank as private but he signed his will as a sergent. It says sergent on his headstone but private on his medal page. It appears elsewhere that rank during WWI was associated with a post rather than a permanent aquisition by a solder, so a transfer from one post to another changed a solders rank, resulting in demotion that was not meritted by the solder's behaviour. The same thing happened to my grandfather and we have a letter from his new commanding officer saying he wanted to keep him as a corpral but couldn't as he already had one Regards melanie This not unusual as there are three "types" of rank. 1. Substantive which means the rank was permanent and he was paid for that rank. Only lost by being demoted for committing an chargeable offence against regulations. 2. Acting which means as it says, usually paid at that rank but could be lost on posting. If he behaved well and performed well at the rank it could easily become substantive. 3. Local which is unpaid and lost on leaving the unit where the rank was held. I too ordered a will which came in a couple of days. My soldier too only wrote a couple of lines leaving all to his mother. This does not surprise me as most youngsters would not have owned much in those days and only married (and/or older) men would have possibly made more detailed wills. Good hunting Gordon

On 01/09/2013 12:18, melanie chesnel wrote: > I just got my copy too, with a much shorter delay than announced. The will was for the right person, but gave few details - he left everything to his mother. It does, however, reinforce a mystery! The paperwork gives his rank as private but he signed his will as a sergent. It says sergent on his headstone but private on his medal page. It appears elsewhere that rank during WWI was associated with a post rather than a permanent aquisition by a solder, so a transfer from one post to another changed a solders rank, resulting in demotion that was not meritted by the solder's behaviour. The same thing happened to my grandfather and we have a letter from his new commanding officer saying he wanted to keep him as a corpral but couldn't as he already had one > > Regards melanie > My father was demoted from, I think, Sergeant during WWII after an incident. Within next to no time he gained a commission - clearly the whole thing was a matter of being seen to be tough. That sort of history could easily give rise to what you describe. -- Rod

On 9/1/2013 8:18 AM, polygonum wrote: > My father was demoted from, I think, Sergeant during WWII after an > incident. Within next to no time he gained a commission - clearly the > whole thing was a matter of being seen to be tough. That sort of history > could easily give rise to what you describe. > My father was also demoted from sergeant, was offered a commission, made it back to sergeant. He said one of the reasons he refused the commission was because my mother was a corporal. Somewhere, I have all the paperwork relating to the offer and its refusal.

I just got my copy too, with a much shorter delay than announced. The will was for the right person, but gave few details - he left everything to his mother. It does, however, reinforce a mystery! The paperwork gives his rank as private but he signed his will as a sergent. It says sergent on his headstone but private on his medal page. It appears elsewhere that rank during WWI was associated with a post rather than a permanent aquisition by a solder, so a transfer from one post to another changed a solders rank, resulting in demotion that was not meritted by the solder's behaviour. The same thing happened to my grandfather and we have a letter from his new commanding officer saying he wanted to keep him as a corpral but couldn't as he already had one Regards melanie

"Tickettyboo" wrote in message news:b8etn5F74diU1@mid.individual.net... On 2013-08-31 08:03:43 +0000, Brian Lummis said: > > Just an update on my experience. I eventually got access to the payment > gateway and paid for a copy of the will for Richard LUMMIS. I was > interested as I had not come across this member of the family before. I > was told that it would take up to 10 days to become available but received > email today saying that it was ready to view, so an acceptable delay. > However the will turned out to be of a Richard LUNNISS which was clearly > written 4 times in the document. So it would appear to be another case of > bad indexing and a waste of £6 as it is completely unrelated to my > research. > > Brian I agree with Charles, tell them about it and ask for a refund. Let us know what happens as I think it may be an oft repeated refrain. -- Tickettyboo I should have mentioned that I have reported the error to them and asked for a refund - I will let you know the response if and when I receive one. Brian

On 2013-08-31 08:03:43 +0000, Brian Lummis said: > > Just an update on my experience. I eventually got access to the payment > gateway and paid for a copy of the will for Richard LUMMIS. I was > interested as I had not come across this member of the family before. I > was told that it would take up to 10 days to become available but > received email today saying that it was ready to view, so an acceptable > delay. However the will turned out to be of a Richard LUNNISS which was > clearly written 4 times in the document. So it would appear to be > another case of bad indexing and a waste of £6 as it is completely > unrelated to my research. > > Brian I agree with Charles, tell them about it and ask for a refund. Let us know what happens as I think it may be an oft repeated refrain. -- Tickettyboo

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 17:10:01 +0100, Mick <mrcycleuk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >At Findmypast in the Britain: outbound passenger lists1890-1960 >I found a George Bull (born 1884 at IOW) and his wife had left >Liverpool on the 19th April 1911 on the Corsican going to Quebec, >Canada. > >They had had a son born in 1910, there is no mention of him travelling >only George Bull and Mrs Bull. >The son named George Edward Bull died at Portsmouth, Hampshire, in >1917 and their 2nd son also named George Edward Bull was born on the >Isle of Wight on 10th July 1917. > >Is there any way of finding out when they travelled back from Canada? >Mick. IOW. > The available incoming lists (as available on Ancestry and probably also if/as available in FMP) don't seem to include all ports of entry and even those ports included can be seen to have gaps in their records (e.g. I don't believe that Glasgow would have had a month or two with no incoming vessels when my great-grandfather returned apparently unrecorded from Canada). There is a bit of pot luck involved. In case FMP hasn't got it, the closest match in Ancestry is George BULL, 27y, clerk, arriving on the Andania at Port of London (i.e. anywhere between Teddington and the North Sea) on 29 Jun 1914 but he is unaccompanied. However, it only takes one indexing mistake or inkblot to miss him so that doesn't allow for his wife possibly showing up if she is searched for.

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 17:10:01 +0100 Mick <mrcycleuk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Is there any way of finding out when they travelled back from Canada? There was a George BULL aged 27, clerk, who travelled Montreal to London on the Cunard ship Antania arriving on 29 June 1914. There were no other BULLs on the manifest. -- Brian Pears (Gateshead)

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:03:43 +0100, "Brian Lummis" <lummis@btinternet.com> wrote: >>On Thursday, August 29, 2013 12:17:52 PM UTC+2, Brian Lummis wrote: >>> See BBC News article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23861821 >>> >>> >>> >>> Unfortunately the payment gateway was not working when I tried to obtain >>> a >>> copy. >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian > >On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 04:16:10 -0700 (PDT), melanie chesnel ><mellychesnel@gmail.com> wrote: > >>I have just paid for and ordered one for my greatuncle - there is a 10 day >>delay before it is available for download and it will only remain >>downloadable for 31 days. I suspect they are still digitalising the stuff >>as people order it which explains the delay >> >>regards melanie >> >Charles Ellson" wrote in message >news:jrav199tr01k1e6q8cfmslkod11ad3ismq@4ax.com... > >>I suspect they're working the usual PRFD way, i.e. they copy the will >>from the original when someone requests it; the only "new work" is >>possibly the index which in modern times should involve little extra >>effort to provide on-line access. > >Just an update on my experience. I eventually got access to the payment >gateway and paid for a copy of the will for Richard LUMMIS. I was interested >as I had not come across this member of the family before. I was told that >it would take up to 10 days to become available but received email today >saying that it was ready to view, so an acceptable delay. However the will >turned out to be of a Richard LUNNISS which was clearly written 4 times in >the document. So it would appear to be another case of bad indexing and a >waste of £6 as it is completely unrelated to my research. > Tell them. You might get your sick squid back and somebody else might get their relative if/when the index is corrected.

Mick wrote: > Is there any way of finding out when they travelled back from Canada? Mick: This is a holiday weekend in the USA and Ancestry is offering free immigration and travel records thru 02 September. Don't know if this applies to you beyond the seas and borders. Just a quick look shows a lot of traveling Bull into UK. But I would also check BALL after a quick review of some of the manifest pages. Good hunting. ecunningham@att.net

At Findmypast in the Britain: outbound passenger lists1890-1960 I found a George Bull (born 1884 at IOW) and his wife had left Liverpool on the 19th April 1911 on the Corsican going to Quebec, Canada. They had had a son born in 1910, there is no mention of him travelling only George Bull and Mrs Bull. The son named George Edward Bull died at Portsmouth, Hampshire, in 1917 and their 2nd son also named George Edward Bull was born on the Isle of Wight on 10th July 1917. Is there any way of finding out when they travelled back from Canada? Mick. IOW.

Looks like this will remain a mystery but thanks to all who helped.

On Thursday, 2 March 2000 08:00:00 UTC, Peter Haizelden wrote: > Don, > > Sir Henry Harben was never Lord Mayor of London - just the man from the Pru. > And Caroline Harben not only married a local politian (as you put it - but > actually a screw manufacturer) but was mother to Rt. Hon. Joseph > Chamberlain, PC, MP, President of the Board of Trade, three times Mayor of > Birmingham, and in turn grandmother to Austen and Neville Chamberlain, the > latter now infamous for that cosy chat with a german chappy, and some say he > followed in the family's trade and screwed things up ;-o > > -- > Peter Haizelden > PHaizelden@Maypowder.Freeserve.co.uk > Researching the Mayors and Lord Mayors of London 1189-present (since 1975) > Now researching the Aldermen of the City of London > > > > "Don Moody" <don@hyperpeople.demon.co.uk> wrote in message > news:+3+yOCA5eRv4Ew1s@hyperpeople.demon.co.uk... > > Dear All, > > > [snip] > > > I would also like to hear from anybody researching BAIN, particularly > > the part of the family from Bonhill, Dunbartonshire; and from anybody > > researching HARBEN particularly including my ggrandfather Sir Henry > > Harben 1823-1911, Lord Mayor of London and boss of The Pru, and his vast > > number of descendants and siblings with their descendants. > > > > I have been surprised not to be able to find anything on HARBEN in > > GENUKI or similar sources. The family was not exactly invisible. It > > includes other quite well-known businessmen. Sir Henry's aunt Caroline > > married a local politician in Birmingham by name of J Chamberlain; and > > his great-aunt Susan Harben was said to be the model for Mrs Hardern in > > 'Jane Eyre'. Sir Henry's father Henry was one of 18 siblings, and his > > father, another Henry, was one of 13 siblings. Sir Henry fancied himself > > as an actor and there have been professional actors in the family, > > including a certain cook and his sister who played Mona Lott in ITMA. > > Put another way, the old devil fancied actresses and his second wife, my > > ggrandmother, was a wild Irish one. She lived next door to Sir Arthur > > Sullivan, who 'discovered' daughter Ethel as a singer and encouraged her > > to go to Germany. Which brings us back to my missing uncle Bernard. > > > > Sorry the posting is longer than normal, but it seemed best to include > > all available scraps of circumstantial information. Hopefully one bit > > will ring a bell with somebody somewhere. > > > > Don hi, im sallyann downes,daughter of pauline harben and am interested in family tree. my grandfather was lancelot george harben and his cousin was phillip harben. my husbands e-mail is billdownes99@gmail.com

>On Thursday, August 29, 2013 12:17:52 PM UTC+2, Brian Lummis wrote: >> See BBC News article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23861821 >> >> >> >> Unfortunately the payment gateway was not working when I tried to obtain >> a >> copy. >> >> >> >> Brian On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 04:16:10 -0700 (PDT), melanie chesnel <mellychesnel@gmail.com> wrote: >I have just paid for and ordered one for my greatuncle - there is a 10 day >delay before it is available for download and it will only remain >downloadable for 31 days. I suspect they are still digitalising the stuff >as people order it which explains the delay > >regards melanie > Charles Ellson" wrote in message news:jrav199tr01k1e6q8cfmslkod11ad3ismq@4ax.com... >I suspect they're working the usual PRFD way, i.e. they copy the will >from the original when someone requests it; the only "new work" is >possibly the index which in modern times should involve little extra >effort to provide on-line access. Just an update on my experience. I eventually got access to the payment gateway and paid for a copy of the will for Richard LUMMIS. I was interested as I had not come across this member of the family before. I was told that it would take up to 10 days to become available but received email today saying that it was ready to view, so an acceptable delay. However the will turned out to be of a Richard LUNNISS which was clearly written 4 times in the document. So it would appear to be another case of bad indexing and a waste of £6 as it is completely unrelated to my research. Brian

Jerry wrote: > I wonder if anyone can help with the dates of service for this soldier? > > Joseph Pownall > > Loyal North Lancashire Regiment 12835 private > North Staffordshire Regiment 57160 lance corporal > > Every time I try to look up the information I am asked for my credit card details so I would appreciate any help. > > Regards, Jerry British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920 Record for Joseph Pownall Name: Joseph Pownall Regiment or Corps: Loyal North Lancashire Regiment, North Staffordshire Regiment Regimental Number: 12835, 57160 Unfortunately, no further records available for those regimental numbers and no further information on the record cards other than the Victory, the British and the 1915 Star awarded (see Pip, Squeak and Wilfred http://www.greatwar.co.uk/medals/ww1-campaign-medals.htm,) date of entry 17 JULY 1915 -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 13:25:20 +0100, Tickettyboo <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote: >On 2013-08-30 12:04:41 +0000, Tickettyboo said: > >> On 2013-08-30 10:54:00 +0000, Jerry said: >> >>> I wonder if anyone can help with the dates of service for this soldier? >>> >>> Joseph Pownall >>> >>> Loyal North Lancashire Regiment 12835 private >>> North Staffordshire Regiment 57160 lance corporal >>> >>> Every time I try to look up the information I am asked for my credit >>> card details so I would appreciate any help. >>> >>> Regards, Jerry >> >> There is at least one service record (badly damaged) for that name >> which doesn't show a service number. It has mother's name as Hannah. >> brothers Thomas and William, sisters Margaret & Mary Jane of 12 Wignall >> Street, Preston. >> >> If that sounds likely I'll have a further look for dates etc > >Hmm not too sure if that page belongs to the same man, sometimes the >badly damaged records are a bit jumbled, but I found the attestation >page and that says Thomas Pownallm born Preston, a foundry labourer, >aged 19 years and 11 months enlisted in the Loyal N Lancs 26 Nov 1892. > Also note that despite appearing in the Medal Rolls some soldiers (like my grandfather) don't appear in the available online records as they were discharged after the end date of those records.

On 2013-08-30 12:04:41 +0000, Tickettyboo said: > On 2013-08-30 10:54:00 +0000, Jerry said: > >> I wonder if anyone can help with the dates of service for this soldier? >> >> Joseph Pownall >> >> Loyal North Lancashire Regiment 12835 private >> North Staffordshire Regiment 57160 lance corporal >> >> Every time I try to look up the information I am asked for my credit >> card details so I would appreciate any help. >> >> Regards, Jerry > > There is at least one service record (badly damaged) for that name > which doesn't show a service number. It has mother's name as Hannah. > brothers Thomas and William, sisters Margaret & Mary Jane of 12 Wignall > Street, Preston. > > If that sounds likely I'll have a further look for dates etc Hmm not too sure if that page belongs to the same man, sometimes the badly damaged records are a bit jumbled, but I found the attestation page and that says Thomas Pownallm born Preston, a foundry labourer, aged 19 years and 11 months enlisted in the Loyal N Lancs 26 Nov 1892. -- Tickettyboo

On 2013-08-30 10:54:00 +0000, Jerry said: > I wonder if anyone can help with the dates of service for this soldier? > > Joseph Pownall > > Loyal North Lancashire Regiment 12835 private > North Staffordshire Regiment 57160 lance corporal > > Every time I try to look up the information I am asked for my credit > card details so I would appreciate any help. > > Regards, Jerry There is at least one service record (badly damaged) for that name which doesn't show a service number. It has mother's name as Hannah. brothers Thomas and William, sisters Margaret & Mary Jane of 12 Wignall Street, Preston. If that sounds likely I'll have a further look for dates etc -- Tickettyboo

I wonder if anyone can help with the dates of service for this soldier? Joseph Pownall Loyal North Lancashire Regiment 12835 private North Staffordshire Regiment 57160 lance corporal Every time I try to look up the information I am asked for my credit card details so I would appreciate any help. Regards, Jerry

Anne Chambers wrote: >> > > He was a Londoner born and bred.... > > pressed 'send' too soon: and served in the British Army, in the London Regiment. -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com