On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 07:46:21 +0200, Steve Hayes <[email protected]> wrote: >On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 23:47:59 +0000, Richard Smith <[email protected]> >wrote: > >>On 17/12/14 09:36, Steve Hayes wrote: >>> We have been approached by two different heir-hunting firms with the news that >>> my wife's first cousin once removed has died intestate, and they are looking >>> for heirs. >> >>Which way around is the "once removed"? If one of your wife's parents >>was the deceased's first cousin, your wife is perhaps an heir, being the >>granddaughter of an uncle or aunt. If it was the other way round, and >>one of the deceased's parents was your wife's first cousin, then (as I >>understand it) your wife would not normally be an heir. (This is per >>the law in England and Wales. If the estate is in Scotland or Northern >>Ireland, things might be different.) > Very different in Scotland. Spouses and children have rights which cannot be overcome by a will and the chain of succession has no end unlike in England and Wales where the Crown gets the estate of an intestate person if the nearest relative is not closely enough related. >The deceased was my wife's mother's first cousin, so my wife is one of the >heirs. > >My question was really about who would have have charge of the deceased's >property if she died intestate. If there is a will, there is usually a named >executor. But if there is no will, who looks after the property until an >executor can be appointed? > There is no executor if there is no will, probate is then the responsibility of an administrator. An administrator (or the person on whose behalf an administrator acts) has to have an interest in the estate as someone entitled to inherit or by having some other claim upon the estate (e.g. a person to whom the deceased owed a debt). IMU there is no particular order of precedence to be considered when a person qualified to act makes an application for a grant to administer but this does not later prevent someone higher up the chain of succession (or anywhere in it?) applying to take over the administration if the person who got in first fails to do the job properly. See also Administration of Estates Act 1925 [http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/15-16/23/contents] s.46 has the sequence of succession of the residuary estate of an intestate person domiciled in England and Wales. >We've now managed to find the name of a firm of lawyers who have apparently >taken charge of such things, though I still have no idea who appointed them, >in the absence of a will. > In England and Wales they would have required a grant of administration from the Principal Registry of the Family Division of the High Court (PRFD) :- https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/overview
On 19/12/14 09:57, Mick IOW wrote: > Hi all, How can I trace who ran Stagg Bros. Decorators Merchants 20 > Carisbrooke Rd, Newport, Isle of Wight in the 1950s/1960s A family business may well have been a partnership but if they were a limited company Companies House should have the company returns listing the directors. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk
On 19/12/2014 09:57, Mick IOW wrote: > Hi all, How can I trace who ran Stagg Bros. Decorators Merchants 20 > Carisbrooke Rd, Newport, Isle of Wight in the 1950s/1960s > > In the 1951 Kellies Newport, Isle of Wight Trade Directory for Stagg > it is listed as: Stagg Bros. Decorators Merchants 20 Carisbrooke Rd, > Newport, Isle of Wight, but not which Stagg family member ran it. > > > I think the owner from limited family knowledge is likely: "George > Arthur Stagg" born 1912 at Newport, IOW, a son of Stanley Stagg& Lily > May Kemp. > > George Arthur married Dorothy Phyllis Peach in 1938 at St John, > Newport, IOW. > > > Or: "Robert George Stagg" born 28 Nov 1912 at Newport, IOW, a son of > Fred Albert Stagg& Blanch Emily Barrett. > > Robert George married Elizabeth Anne Irwin Morris in 1966 at the > Register Office, Newport, IOW. > > I have tried with no success the online Directory listings at > Ancestry, but did find information on another Stagg family business. > > Any thoughts would help, > Thanks, > Mick IOW. > Do you have access to any IOW newspaper archives of the period. There may well be references to xxxx Stagg of Stagg Bros. in some of the articles. [I've looked in FindMyPast, and their archive doesn't seem to included any IOW - or even Hampshire - papers, but if you live on the Island, maybe there's a local source?] The fact that it's Stagg Bros. suggests that it was founded by brothers (in the plural - in other words, at least two). That could possibly limit which family they cam from. Have you any idea when it was founded? Have you looked in earlier Kellys directories? -- Cheers, Roger ____________ Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked.
Hello, I hope this is of interest to members of this list. Free UK Genealogy, the parent charity of FreeBMD, FreeREG and FreeCEN are recruiting two additional Trustees to the Board. Would you be interested in helping shape the organisation? If so, or you know someone that might be, could you pass on the link below which has more details on the recruitment process? http://www.freeukgenealogy.org.uk/blog/2014/12/19/trustee-recruitment/ Many thanks *- -* *Darren Wright* Executive Director Free UK Genealogy <http://www.freeukgenealogy.co.uk/> 08452872816
Hi all, How can I trace who ran Stagg Bros. Decorators Merchants 20 Carisbrooke Rd, Newport, Isle of Wight in the 1950s/1960s In the 1951 Kellies Newport, Isle of Wight Trade Directory for Stagg it is listed as: Stagg Bros. Decorators Merchants 20 Carisbrooke Rd, Newport, Isle of Wight, but not which Stagg family member ran it. I think the owner from limited family knowledge is likely: "George Arthur Stagg" born 1912 at Newport, IOW, a son of Stanley Stagg & Lily May Kemp. George Arthur married Dorothy Phyllis Peach in 1938 at St John, Newport, IOW. Or: "Robert George Stagg" born 28 Nov 1912 at Newport, IOW, a son of Fred Albert Stagg & Blanch Emily Barrett. Robert George married Elizabeth Anne Irwin Morris in 1966 at the Register Office, Newport, IOW. I have tried with no success the online Directory listings at Ancestry, but did find information on another Stagg family business. Any thoughts would help, Thanks, Mick IOW.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 23:47:59 +0000, Richard Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >On 17/12/14 09:36, Steve Hayes wrote: >> We have been approached by two different heir-hunting firms with the news that >> my wife's first cousin once removed has died intestate, and they are looking >> for heirs. > >Which way around is the "once removed"? If one of your wife's parents >was the deceased's first cousin, your wife is perhaps an heir, being the >granddaughter of an uncle or aunt. If it was the other way round, and >one of the deceased's parents was your wife's first cousin, then (as I >understand it) your wife would not normally be an heir. (This is per >the law in England and Wales. If the estate is in Scotland or Northern >Ireland, things might be different.) The deceased was my wife's mother's first cousin, so my wife is one of the heirs. My question was really about who would have have charge of the deceased's property if she died intestate. If there is a will, there is usually a named executor. But if there is no will, who looks after the property until an executor can be appointed? We've now managed to find the name of a firm of lawyers who have apparently taken charge of such things, though I still have no idea who appointed them, in the absence of a will. -- Steve Hayes Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/ http://hayesgreene.blogspot.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/afgen/
On 17/12/2014 14:02, Geoff Pearson wrote: > We did it - first in Leith at 09:20 - so in the first 5 in Scotland. We > were the test bed as the staff in the Registrar's office received their > instructions only 10 minutes before we arrived. Great fun, then media > people waiting outside - video report on Edinburgh Reporter website. Congratulations. -- Brian Pears (Gateshead)
On 17/12/14 09:36, Steve Hayes wrote: > We have been approached by two different heir-hunting firms with the news that > my wife's first cousin once removed has died intestate, and they are looking > for heirs. Which way around is the "once removed"? If one of your wife's parents was the deceased's first cousin, your wife is perhaps an heir, being the granddaughter of an uncle or aunt. If it was the other way round, and one of the deceased's parents was your wife's first cousin, then (as I understand it) your wife would not normally be an heir. (This is per the law in England and Wales. If the estate is in Scotland or Northern Ireland, things might be different.) Richard
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Does typing on your iPad frustrate you? Do you make a ton of errors? Does it take forever to type a simple message? If you answered YES <http://time.kidneyclense.eu/pgjcqh/wg55tj/348EEiCCSTdEidd8GTEPfRwuuK8CojiBEd884zeld24jriXuui4SBdN8EuuZwDR6ffwffPfuuwffuui42NGCQ8d> to any of these questions you need to listen up. Touchfire <http://time.kidneyclense.eu/pgjcqh/wg55tj/348EEiCCSTdEidd8GTEPfRwuuK8CojiBEd884zeld24jriXuui4SBdN8EuuZwDR6ffwffPfuuwffuui42NGCQ8d> is the best solution to your problems. It will transform your typing experience like no other iPad keyboard can. What Makes Touchfire So Great? Faster Typing (with less typos) Type Without Looking Most Affordable iPad Keyboard No Extra Devices To Carry Around Thinnest and Lightest Keyboard Easily Slides Out Of The Way Click here <http://time.kidneyclense.eu/pgjcqh/wg55tj/348EEiCCSTdEidd8GTEPfRwuuK8CojiBEd884zeld24jriXuui4SBdN8EuuZwDR6ffwffPfuuwffuui42NGCQ8d> to Join the 53,194 iPad users who've already made the switch to Touchfire. To stop receiving messages, please visit here <http://time.kidneyclense.eu/wtioi/gb7qbawym/348EEiCCSTdEidd8GTEPfRwuuK8CojiBEd884zeld24jriXuui4SBdN8EuuZwDR6ffwffPfuuwffuui42NGCQ8d&cid=204835>. <http://time.kidneyclense.eu/wtioi/gb7qbawym/348EEiCCSTdEidd8GTEPfRwuuK8CojiBEd884zeld24jriXuui4SBdN8EuuZwDR6ffwffPfuuwffuui42NGCQ8d> Touchfire, Inc. | 1117 NW 54th Street | Seattle, WA 98107 What I was doing wrong while texting was keeping it plain. You're right that it's hard to read people through text. I used to complain how texting was hard because you can never gauge the mood, but at the same time, people were saying that to me. They tell me that they can't tell if I'm being passive aggressive or serious. I changed it up completely. I threw in exclamation points and made texts sound like the way I would speak including inflections by capitalizing words. I also had a lot to say in general. I didn't put that burden on the other person to fill the conversation. I had enough to contribute that the other person felt comfortable to share just as much.
Does typing on your iPad frustrate you? Do you make a ton of errors? Does it take forever to type a simple message? If you answered YES <http://time.ipadknowledge.eu/r/at54brc/4irB8T1SF2T34imiT48NTdN2XTdEijTiGdTdN2XTESKdE24GCTdSi4XuuK8CojiBEd884zeld24jriXuui4SBdN8EuuZwDR6ffwffPfuufffuui42NGCQ8d> to any of these questions you need to listen up. Touchfire <http://time.ipadknowledge.eu/r/at54brc/4irB8T1SF2T34imiT48NTdN2XTdEijTiGdTdN2XTESKdE24GCTdSi4XuuK8CojiBEd884zeld24jriXuui4SBdN8EuuZwDR6ffwffPfuufffuui42NGCQ8d> is the best solution to your problems. It will transform your typing experience like no other iPad keyboard can. What Makes Touchfire So Great? Faster Typing (with less typos) Type Without Looking Most Affordable iPad Keyboard No Extra Devices To Carry Around Thinnest and Lightest Keyboard Easily Slides Out Of The Way Click here <http://time.ipadknowledge.eu/r/at54brc/4irB8T1SF2T34imiT48NTdN2XTdEijTiGdTdN2XTESKdE24GCTdSi4XuuK8CojiBEd884zeld24jriXuui4SBdN8EuuZwDR6ffwffPfuufffuui42NGCQ8d> to Join the 53,194 iPad users who've already made the switch to Touchfire. To stop receiving messages, please visit here <http://time.ipadknowledge.eu/njnaew/iclvu7hh/4irB8T1SF2T34imiT48NTdN2XTdEijTiGdTdN2XTESKdE24GCTdSi4XuuK8CojiBEd884zeld24jriXuui4SBdN8EuuZwDR6ffwffPfuufffuui42NGCQ8d&cid=204835>. <http://time.ipadknowledge.eu/njnaew/iclvu7hh/4irB8T1SF2T34imiT48NTdN2XTdEijTiGdTdN2XTESKdE24GCTdSi4XuuK8CojiBEd884zeld24jriXuui4SBdN8EuuZwDR6ffwffPfuufffuui42NGCQ8d> Touchfire, Inc. | 1117 NW 54th Street | Seattle, WA 98107 What I was doing wrong while texting was keeping it plain. You're right that it's hard to read people through text. I used to complain how texting was hard because you can never gauge the mood, but at the same time, people were saying that to me. They tell me that they can't tell if I'm being passive aggressive or serious. I changed it up completely. I threw in exclamation points and made texts sound like the way I would speak including inflections by capitalizing words. I also had a lot to say in general. I didn't put that burden on the other person to fill the conversation. I had enough to contribute that the other person felt comfortable to share just as much.
On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 23:52:39 +0000, Charles Ellson <[email protected]> wrote: >On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 11:00:13 +0000, Iain Archer <[email protected]> >wrote: > >>Steve Hayes wrote on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 at 11:36:57 GMT >>>We have been approached by two different heir-hunting firms with the news that >>>my wife's first cousin once removed has died intestate, and they are looking >>>for heirs. >>> >>>I don't know if anyone else has experience of such things, but here in South >>>Africa if someone dies intestate the relevant authority, or the heirs or >>>crditors appoint an executor dative (as opposed to an executor testamentary) >>>to handle the estate. >>> >>>What is the equivalent procedure in England? >>> >>>We have not been in touch with her, because we did not know her address, and >>>it's rather sad to only discover where she lived after her death. >>> >>>So we don't know whether she lived in her own house, or was renting a place, >>>or what. >>> >>>But who would be responsible, and who would look after her things? >>> >>>We know she was a civil servant, and don't expect that she would have got rich >>>on a civil service pension, so we are not so much concerned about the monetary >>>value of the estate (which would need to be shared with a lot of other >>>relatives anyway) but rather things like family papers and photographs. >>> >>>In the absence of an executor, who would handle such things? Would a landlord >>>just toss them out to make room for a new tenant? Who would have the keys to >>>her home? >> >>You could have a browse of >><https://www.thegazette.co.uk/wills-and-probate/notice> and >><https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/bona-vacantia>. The latter >>would be involved if there no known relatives >> >just "no persons", see below > >>who had been granted administration of the estate. >> >http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ihtmanual/ihtm12111.htm >has a number of links regarding intestate estates. > >IIRC with an intestate estate the process has to be started by a >person with a relevant interest in the estate (if there isn't one then >an estate might remain in limbo for ages), the reason that you see >people being "signed up" by heir hunters. Also IIRC, right at the end >of that queue of such persons is anyone to whom the deceased owes a >debt thus it is possible that an administrator could have no social or >family connection at all with the deceased. > >As for the residence, if you can locate it then you can get the >registration details via :- >https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry >(DO NOT use any other site not ending in "gov.uk", these will almost >inevitably be bogus.) >If she is shown as the sole proprietor, the title is held freehold and >there is no mention of mortgages or other charges then it's all hers >but otherwise watch the dates on the document carefully in case the >current registration post dates her death in case the house has since >been sold with the proceeds awaiting distribution. Thanks very much for the replies and links. I did find "bona vacantia" with a Google search, but all the sites that came up seemed to be heir hunters. And when I searched on "deceased estates" (plural) the relevant Gazette notice came up, giving the name of the executors. I thought Google would have found the plural if one entered the singular, but in this case it didn't. -- Steve Hayes Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/ http://hayesgreene.blogspot.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/afgen/
On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 11:00:13 +0000, Iain Archer <[email protected]> wrote: >Steve Hayes wrote on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 at 11:36:57 GMT >>We have been approached by two different heir-hunting firms with the news that >>my wife's first cousin once removed has died intestate, and they are looking >>for heirs. >> >>I don't know if anyone else has experience of such things, but here in South >>Africa if someone dies intestate the relevant authority, or the heirs or >>crditors appoint an executor dative (as opposed to an executor testamentary) >>to handle the estate. >> >>What is the equivalent procedure in England? >> >>We have not been in touch with her, because we did not know her address, and >>it's rather sad to only discover where she lived after her death. >> >>So we don't know whether she lived in her own house, or was renting a place, >>or what. >> >>But who would be responsible, and who would look after her things? >> >>We know she was a civil servant, and don't expect that she would have got rich >>on a civil service pension, so we are not so much concerned about the monetary >>value of the estate (which would need to be shared with a lot of other >>relatives anyway) but rather things like family papers and photographs. >> >>In the absence of an executor, who would handle such things? Would a landlord >>just toss them out to make room for a new tenant? Who would have the keys to >>her home? > >You could have a browse of ><https://www.thegazette.co.uk/wills-and-probate/notice> and ><https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/bona-vacantia>. The latter >would be involved if there no known relatives > just "no persons", see below >who had been granted administration of the estate. > http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ihtmanual/ihtm12111.htm has a number of links regarding intestate estates. IIRC with an intestate estate the process has to be started by a person with a relevant interest in the estate (if there isn't one then an estate might remain in limbo for ages), the reason that you see people being "signed up" by heir hunters. Also IIRC, right at the end of that queue of such persons is anyone to whom the deceased owes a debt thus it is possible that an administrator could have no social or family connection at all with the deceased. As for the residence, if you can locate it then you can get the registration details via :- https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry (DO NOT use any other site not ending in "gov.uk", these will almost inevitably be bogus.) If she is shown as the sole proprietor, the title is held freehold and there is no mention of mortgages or other charges then it's all hers but otherwise watch the dates on the document carefully in case the current registration post dates her death in case the house has since been sold with the proceeds awaiting distribution.