Ian Goddard <[email protected]> wrote: > AFAICS they've digitised the index but not the documents. Not very substantially as far as I can see. Unlike Ancestry who have transcribed the names on the pages, this new site seems just to indicate which pages a name *should* appear on it if it is there. So, for example, for my Cavers one-name study I get lots of spurious positive results, with very few actual Cavers entries, whereas Ancestry just tells me the ones that are really there. I'm boggling at this as supposedly a revolutionary service, and am quite annoyed by the claims that millions of wills have been put online. Hardly. They haven't even done the indexes properly as far as I can see, never mind the wills which are being scanned, individually, on demand as customers buy them. Very different from the totally online and instantly downloadable Scottish wills website. Viv

Yes, the "on Sea" bit tends to get dropped by us "locals" when talking about Gorleston. This happens a lot in the UK where there is a name something on/by etc it is not uncommon to find that the first part of the name is what people tend to use as opposed to the full name because locally everyone knows what you are talking about. To find Gorleston on the map find Great Yarmouth, Norfolk and look south across the mouth of the River Yare and that is Gorleston on Sea. Due to housing development etc, there is no "green space" between Gt Yarmouth and Gorleston so the two look as one on the map. The church indicates where Gorleston on Sea grew from. Note if you are researching ancestors from Gorleston or the surrounding area be aware of county boundary changes between Norfolk and Suffolk in this area and the church comes under the Norfolk Diocese in Norwich. Good hunting Gordon "Susan" wrote in message news:[email protected] and Gorleston by the Sea, are they the same place? Trying to find Gorleston on an old Baedeker's Map of Great Britain. It's about 30 years old, can't find a copyright, if that helps. Susan There's more to NY than NYC.

brightside S9 <[email protected]_is_not.invalid> wrote: > I can find an Elizabeth Lento, aged 53 in the subject sample. > > Here's how to find her in Ancestry. > Search, select Census & Electoral Rolls. > On the right bottom of page click on 'View all in card catalogue' to > go to next page. > Now on this page on the left towards the bottom there is a 'Filter by > Dates'.[* Not* Filter by collection.] Click on the 1850's. > A list appears. Half way down this list is '1851 United Kingdom > Census Sample'. Click on it. > A search page appears. > > Enter: > Forename: Elizabeth > Surname: Lenton > Birth location: Gretton, Northamptonshire, England > > Thats all. Search and you should get 5 hits. > > The first two hits gives me my girl. > She is 53 and a widow. She has two children with her, Abigail and > Michael. These confirms she is the person I am looking for. > > The problem is that I cannot find them on the 'normal' 1851 census. > I need to do so to find out their proper address. [Everybody in > Gretton seems to have the same address in this 1851 sample. i.e Jane > Staples Sep Sch, whatever that is]. > > Anyone care to try and find them in the normal 1851 census? Piece 2093 Folio 164 page 38

On 28/12/14 10:45, Jon Green wrote: > Now, if only we could get online death indices more recent than 2006... Does anyone properly understand what is preventing this? I understand it is not simply that Ancestry et al have decide not to pay for it, and that a change in government policy is involved, but I've not been able to determine exactly what the current policy is. As the index post-2006 is accessible in a small number of libraries and archives, the government has clearly not decided it should be kept from the public entirely. Richard

On 28/12/14 10:53, Chris Pitt Lewis via wrote: > > On 28/12/2014 00:52, Charles Ellson via wrote: >> On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 10:38:22 +1100, "Andy" >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> Currently they are not available instantaneous but up to 10 working days >>> after ordering online >>> >> So for all practical purposes it is the existing system with online >> ordering now available. All we need now is someone's pet MP to table a >> question asking why they charge a tenner while the Scottish Government >> only charges roughly a quarter of that for online wills (to 1925) and >> some other governments don't charge at all. >> > > Because the service is operated by the inefficient and unimaginative HM > Courts & Tribunals Service, which thinks it can make money out of us, > but couldn't cope with the rush if it offered it at a price family > historians could afford. > > The real question is why on earth the Courts Service is allowed to keep > control of probate material more than say 50 or 100 years old, instead > of handing it over the the National Archives. They have form on this of > course - it wasn't until 1970 that they handed over the records of the PCC. AFAICS they've digitised the index but not the documents. The wills are being retrieved by hand and scanned to order so the price covers that cost. TNA do much the same thing with a lot of documents - and charge - and I've seen some pretty low-res scans come from them; will this lot do better, I wonder. -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

[email protected] wrote: > Where can one find this paper to read? > It always helps if you include the post you are replying to in your posting. The whole 2004 thread is here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topicsearchin/soc.genealogy.britain/POW$20camps$20 > Linda > > There's an excellent 29-page paper by Dr John Anthony Hellen of > Newcastle University entitled "Temporary settlements and transient > populations, the legacy of Britain's prisoner of war camps" (16 > figures 7 tables and 3 photos). It looks in great detail at how > these camps developed and how they were organised - possibly rather > more detail than you might want. It's in English but appeared in a > German publication - Erdekunde (Archive for Social Geography ) Band > 53/3 1999 - I'm sure Dr Hellen would send you a copy if you are > really interested, contact me directly for contact details. > -- > Brian Pears > Gateshead, UK -- Anne Chambers South Australia anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

On 28/12/2014 00:52, Charles Ellson via wrote: > On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 10:38:22 +1100, "Andy" > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Currently they are not available instantaneous but up to 10 working days >> after ordering online >> > So for all practical purposes it is the existing system with online > ordering now available. All we need now is someone's pet MP to table a > question asking why they charge a tenner while the Scottish Government > only charges roughly a quarter of that for online wills (to 1925) and > some other governments don't charge at all. > Because the service is operated by the inefficient and unimaginative HM Courts & Tribunals Service, which thinks it can make money out of us, but couldn't cope with the rush if it offered it at a price family historians could afford. The real question is why on earth the Courts Service is allowed to keep control of probate material more than say 50 or 100 years old, instead of handing it over the the National Archives. They have form on this of course - it wasn't until 1970 that they handed over the records of the PCC. Chris Pitt Lewis --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

On 28/12/2014 10:03, dave wrote: > On 27/12/14 21:56, eve via wrote: >> The facsimile of the indexes is something which has been available on >> Ancestry for a couple of years. Now, direct access to actual images, >> or even >> to an image at a more reasonable price than £10, would have been news. > > But Ancestry stop at 1966, whereas the new index has records up to 2014. > I've already used the later records from the index to progress a couple > of 'brick walls' in my research without the need to pay for the actual > wills. Now, if only we could get online death indices more recent than 2006... Jon -- Maintainer, soc.genealogy.britain FAQs: www.genealogy-britain.org.uk *** WATCH OUT FOR THE SPAM BLOCK! *** Replace 'deadspam' with 'green-lines' to reply in email!

"Tim Powys-Lybbe" wrote in message news:[email protected] >On 27 Dec at 18:39, Richard Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >> On 27/12/14 17:07, CWatters wrote: >> >> > "A name and year of death is required to find wills, which should be >> > ready for download within 10 days of order." >That was quoted from the BBC's site, not from GOV.UK The BBC quoted from the GOV UK website https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Support/Help >> > >> > How long did it take by post? >> >> In my experience, about a fortnight for delivery within the UK. The >> electronic version may be a little faster for those in the UK if "10 >> days" means calendar days rather than working days, but the main >> advantage will be from those overseas. I imagine delivery to, say, >> Australia takes much longer than 10 days currently. Even within the >> UK, I'd far rather order on-line than have to search around trying to >> find my cheque book and a stamp. Just because I'm researching my >> family history doesn't mean I want to use antiquated tools to do it. >> >> Richard >My impression is that the wills should be available virtually instantly >much the same as those from PCC via The National Archives. But I have >not found one I need to shell out a tenner for yet. Currently they are not available instantaneous but up to 10 working days after ordering online Andy

On 27/12/14 21:56, eve via wrote: > The facsimile of the indexes is something which has been available on > Ancestry for a couple of years. Now, direct access to actual images, or even > to an image at a more reasonable price than £10, would have been news. But Ancestry stop at 1966, whereas the new index has records up to 2014. I've already used the later records from the index to progress a couple of 'brick walls' in my research without the need to pay for the actual wills. -- Dave

and Gorleston by the Sea, are they the same place? Trying to find Gorleston on an old Baedeker's Map of Great Britain. It's about 30 years old, can't find a copyright, if that helps. Susan There's more to NY than NYC.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 10:38:22 +1100, "Andy" <[email protected]> wrote: > > >"Tim Powys-Lybbe" wrote in message >news:[email protected] > >>On 27 Dec at 18:39, Richard Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> On 27/12/14 17:07, CWatters wrote: >>> >>> > "A name and year of death is required to find wills, which should be >>> > ready for download within 10 days of order." > >>That was quoted from the BBC's site, not from GOV.UK > >The BBC quoted from the GOV UK website > >https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Support/Help > >>> > >>> > How long did it take by post? >>> >>> In my experience, about a fortnight for delivery within the UK. The >>> electronic version may be a little faster for those in the UK if "10 >>> days" means calendar days rather than working days, but the main >>> advantage will be from those overseas. I imagine delivery to, say, >>> Australia takes much longer than 10 days currently. Even within the >>> UK, I'd far rather order on-line than have to search around trying to >>> find my cheque book and a stamp. Just because I'm researching my >>> family history doesn't mean I want to use antiquated tools to do it. >>> >>> Richard > >>My impression is that the wills should be available virtually instantly >>much the same as those from PCC via The National Archives. But I have >>not found one I need to shell out a tenner for yet. > >Currently they are not available instantaneous but up to 10 working days >after ordering online > So for all practical purposes it is the existing system with online ordering now available. All we need now is someone's pet MP to table a question asking why they charge a tenner while the Scottish Government only charges roughly a quarter of that for online wills (to 1925) and some other governments don't charge at all.

On 27 Dec at 18:39, Richard Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > On 27/12/14 17:07, CWatters wrote: > > > "A name and year of death is required to find wills, which should be > > ready for download within 10 days of order." That was quoted from the BBC's site, not from GOV.UK > > > > How long did it take by post? > > In my experience, about a fortnight for delivery within the UK. The > electronic version may be a little faster for those in the UK if "10 > days" means calendar days rather than working days, but the main > advantage will be from those overseas. I imagine delivery to, say, > Australia takes much longer than 10 days currently. Even within the > UK, I'd far rather order on-line than have to search around trying to > find my cheque book and a stamp. Just because I'm researching my > family history doesn't mean I want to use antiquated tools to do it. > > Richard My impression is that the wills should be available virtually instantly much the same as those from PCC via The National Archives. But I have not found one I need to shell out a tenner for yet. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe [email protected] for a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

The BBC website is reporting this story today: > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30609619 > > ... which says that copies of post-1858 wills for England and Wales can > now be downloaded online rather than having to be ordered by post, as > has always been the case up to now. > > A little more digging found this official government site: > > https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate > > ... which looks to have scanned (and annotated) indexes to the post-1858 > will calendars, and a facility for onlne ordering at £10 per will. > > I just wondered if anyone else has seen/used this? The facsimile of the indexes is something which has been available on Ancestry for a couple of years. Now, direct access to actual images, or even to an image at a more reasonable price than £10, would have been news. The indexes, especially the early ones, are detailed enough to make access to them and a concerted trawl for all likely references valuable, but the images more readily avaialble would have been a real break-through. EVE Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

On 27/12/14 17:07, CWatters wrote: > "A name and year of death is required to find wills, which should be > ready for download within 10 days of order." > > How long did it take by post? In my experience, about a fortnight for delivery within the UK. The electronic version may be a little faster for those in the UK if "10 days" means calendar days rather than working days, but the main advantage will be from those overseas. I imagine delivery to, say, Australia takes much longer than 10 days currently. Even within the UK, I'd far rather order on-line than have to search around trying to find my cheque book and a stamp. Just because I'm researching my family history doesn't mean I want to use antiquated tools to do it. Richard

On 27/12/2014 11:02, Brett Langston via wrote: > The BBC website is reporting this story today: > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30609619 > > ... which says that copies of post-1858 wills for England and Wales can > now be downloaded online rather than having to be ordered by post, as > has always been the case up to now. > > A little more digging found this official government site: > > https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate > > ... which looks to have scanned (and annotated) indexes to the post-1858 > will calendars, and a facility for onlne ordering at £10 per will. > > I just wondered if anyone else has seen/used this? > > Brett > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30609527 "A name and year of death is required to find wills, which should be ready for download within 10 days of order." How long did it take by post?

Where can one find this paper to read?

Find a will or probate (England and Wales) Find a will or ‘grant of representation’ for people who died in or after 1858. A ‘grant of representation’ gives someone the legal right to deal with a deceased person’s estate. This right is called ‘probate’. You can order copies of documents online. They cost £10 each - you can pay by debit or credit card. https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

The BBC website is reporting this story today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30609619 ... which says that copies of post-1858 wills for England and Wales can now be downloaded online rather than having to be ordered by post, as has always been the case up to now. A little more digging found this official government site: https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate ... which looks to have scanned (and annotated) indexes to the post-1858 will calendars, and a facility for onlne ordering at £10 per will. I just wondered if anyone else has seen/used this? Brett

On 27-12-2014 0:56, Richard van Schaik wrote: > On 26-12-2014 14:50, Richard Smith wrote: >> On 24/12/14 20:18, melanie chesnel wrote: >> >>> I don't see why Richard van Schaik says such a definite 28 as 20 >>> seems just as likely/unlikely to me, particularly as over 21 was >>> often written as "of age". >> >> I can't speak for the specific reasons why Richard van Schaik says it's >> far more likely to be a 28 than 20, but he's right. An '8' was often >> written much more like a lower-case Greek delta, and in this case the >> lower loop, while very small, is very clearly formed. The upper loop is >> perhaps atypically large, but not so much as to cast doubt on the >> identity of the digit. It would take a lot to convince me that it were >> anything but an '8'. And whilst you're right that people over 21 were >> often just given as "of age", considerably more often their ages were >> given. > > Let me say it this way, English and Dutch in pure handwriting per letter > doesn't differ much if compared in about equal time frames. So as long > as local knowledge is not involved I can help a bit sometimes. When > local knowledge becomes involved then I look at the contribution of e.g. > John below in giving Milton and elaborating. > > I do think a lot of you could per letter read a lot of old Dutch (though > also there were some nasty handwritings) but would have similar problems > when local knowledge is involved. auch, shoot me ....... letter in this way is Dutch, character it should have been above. Richard -- Richard van Schaik [email protected] http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/ The world is one big madhouse and this is main office.