"Geoff Pearson" wrote in message news:[email protected] "Bob Campbell via" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > Am attempting to piece together the last years of my great grandfather > Frederick William Campbell.... > Here is what I know so far, > He was discharged from the army as a Chelsea Pensioner in 1907 > At Shepherds Bush in 1911 he is aged 44 both a pensioner and a postman > Described as a widower he later remarried the widow householder in the > 1911 census > The marriage in 1915 shows him as a messenger for the War OFFice at age 48 > The 1922 marriage of his son has his occupation also as a messenger for > the War Office > His 2nd wife died in 1932, still living at Shepherds Bush, Frederick would > be 65 and was still described as a Messenger in the War Office. > My questions being would there a record of him in either or both in the > Post Office or Army records? > Would a Post Office employee be a messenger for the War Office? > Frederick may have died at Kensington in 1938 but the age stated appears > incorrect! > > Cheers from > Bob Campbell > My grandfather's brother was a postman in London and Worthing and his appointment, having passed Civil Service exams is noted in the London Gazette in 1901 - as was his promotion to telegraphist. Hi Bob I had a quick browse through the Postal Service Books on Ancestry for Frederick in the years you mentioned but I couldn't find him. You could ask your question "Would a Post Office employee be a messenger for the War Office?" at the British Postal Museum http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/collections/ the collection is mostly earlier than the period you are interested in but you might at least get a yes/no if nothing else. Regards Kate Sydney, Australia

Alfred James Healey and Halliday (nickname) 'Razorslasher' who escaped Dartmoor prison in the mid 1900's I have looked everywhere but the records can anyone help? or anything on Alfred James Healey. thankyou

Hello all Would someone with access to FMP be kind enough to send me a copy of the the burial/death record for James WARD, died 1788, St James Westminster. I placed it as Middlesex as it didn't show as Westminster. I already have his Will. The death record for his brother has not survived and James is my last hope in the search for their parents. Many thanks Regards Kate Sydney, Australia

Thank you Eve for your reply, Would this mean his appointment may be recorded within the London Gazette? If only I could register as a researcher, but this seems impossible with an address and postcode outside of the UK! The Civil Service List are the records searchable on the National Archives website? I have received printouts from records from there in the past but usually become lost trying to find the sets of records applicable. Cheers from Bob Campbell [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 10:57 AM To: Bob Campbell via ; Bob Campbell Subject: Re: Frederick William Campbell army pensioner, postman and messenger at war office > Am attempting to piece together the last years of my great grandfather > Frederick William Campbell.... > Here is what I know so far, > He was discharged from the army as a Chelsea Pensioner in 1907 > At Shepherds Bush in 1911 he is aged 44 both a pensioner and a postman > Described as a widower he later remarried the widow householder in the > 1911 > census > The marriage in 1915 shows him as a messenger for the War OFFice at age 48 > The 1922 marriage of his son has his occupation also as a messenger for > the > War Office > His 2nd wife died in 1932, still living at Shepherds Bush, Frederick would > be 65 and was still described as a Messenger in the War Office. > My questions being would there a record of him in either or both in the > Post > Office or Army records? Civil Service list should include him and state salary. > Would a Post Office employee be a messenger for the War Office? Probably went from one to the other, with his Army service to recommend him. He would be about on the age limit for call-up, but to be on the safe side, he may then have joined the Civil Service - and working for the War Office would be in a reserved occupation. > Frederick may have died at Kensington in 1938 but the age stated appears > incorrect! Remember the man who knows the correct age is in no position to say. The informant may have looked at him and guessed/ EVE Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

"Kate" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > > > "Geoff Pearson" wrote in message news:[email protected] > > > "Bob Campbell via" <[email protected]> wrote in message > news:[email protected] >> Am attempting to piece together the last years of my great grandfather >> Frederick William Campbell.... >> Here is what I know so far, >> He was discharged from the army as a Chelsea Pensioner in 1907 >> At Shepherds Bush in 1911 he is aged 44 both a pensioner and a postman >> Described as a widower he later remarried the widow householder in the >> 1911 census >> The marriage in 1915 shows him as a messenger for the War OFFice at age >> 48 >> The 1922 marriage of his son has his occupation also as a messenger for >> the War Office >> His 2nd wife died in 1932, still living at Shepherds Bush, Frederick >> would be 65 and was still described as a Messenger in the War Office. >> My questions being would there a record of him in either or both in the >> Post Office or Army records? >> Would a Post Office employee be a messenger for the War Office? >> Frederick may have died at Kensington in 1938 but the age stated appears >> incorrect! >> >> Cheers from >> Bob Campbell >> > > My grandfather's brother was a postman in London and Worthing and his > appointment, having passed Civil Service exams is noted in the London > Gazette in 1901 - as was his promotion to telegraphist. > > Hi Bob > > I had a quick browse through the Postal Service Books on Ancestry for > Frederick in the years you mentioned but I couldn't find him. > > You could ask your question > "Would a Post Office employee be a messenger for the War Office?" > > at the British Postal Museum http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/collections/ > > the collection is mostly earlier than the period you are interested in but > you might at least get a yes/no if nothing else. > > Regards > > Kate > Sydney, Australia I worked in the civil service. Messengers were often retired soldiers. My grandfather was a fishmonger and he became a messenger at the age of 65 - lasted another 6 weeks.

On 04/02/2015 03:18, Kate wrote: > > > Would someone with access to FMP be kind enough to send me a copy of the > the burial/death record for James WARD, died 1788, St James Westminster. > I placed it as Middlesex as it didn't show as Westminster. I already > have his Will. > The death record for his brother has not survived and James is my last > hope in the search for their parents. There is only a James Ward buried at St Clement Dane's in that year. No details at all except his name and the month June. -- Jenny M Benson

On 04/02/2015 03:29, Bob Campbell via wrote: > Thank you Eve for your reply, > Would this mean his appointment may be recorded within the London Gazette? > If only I could register as a researcher, but this seems impossible with > an address and postcode outside of the UK! > > The Civil Service List are the records searchable on the National > Archives website? > I have received printouts from records from there in the past but > usually become lost trying to find the sets of records applicable. > There is a separate War Office list but it is unlikely to cover messengers. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

On 04/02/2015 00:57, eve via wrote: >> Am attempting to piece together the last years of my great grandfather >> Frederick William Campbell.... >> Here is what I know so far, >> He was discharged from the army as a Chelsea Pensioner in 1907 >> At Shepherds Bush in 1911 he is aged 44 both a pensioner and a postman >> Described as a widower he later remarried the widow householder in the 1911 >> census >> The marriage in 1915 shows him as a messenger for the War OFFice at age 48 >> The 1922 marriage of his son has his occupation also as a messenger for the >> War Office >> His 2nd wife died in 1932, still living at Shepherds Bush, Frederick would >> be 65 and was still described as a Messenger in the War Office. >> My questions being would there a record of him in either or both in the Post >> Office or Army records? > Civil Service list should include him and state salary. >> Would a Post Office employee be a messenger for the War Office? > > Probably went from one to the other, with his Army service to recommend > him. He would be about on the age limit for call-up, but to be on the safe > side, he may then have joined the Civil Service - and working for the War > Office would be in a reserved occupation. > It is even possible that he remained in the army. My great-grandfather worked in the War Office from 1872 to 1918 as a member of the Royal Engineers. It is quite likely he was one of the people who used your g-gf's services. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

Help please! I have a reference to a will of 1540, but it is a Somerset House Reference. The reference is merely 1540 number 18 The name is given as William ap Jenkin Gwyn. References are made to Llanedy [now Llanedi] Carmarthenshire and Llangyfelach, Glamorgan. His son's name is said to be Dom John Gwyn the rector of Llanedi I have tried to access it at TNA but have had no success. I would like to know what the modern reference for the will is. Thank you Helenor Jones

Anne, thanks for looking. So you eliminated the possible Violet Campbell born 1902 who was on the 1921 census shown with no parents or spouse at Winnepeg, Manitoba. I used the search engine only but of course no details came up, the above Violet appeared at the top of the list when I input born in England and her birth year 1902 and the year of arrival 1913. Does the 1921 census say whether a person is Roman Catholic? Back to the drawing board! Cheers from Bob Campbell -----Original Message----- From: Ann Watson Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 2:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: looking for a Violet GEARY death after 1969 I couldn't find any likely candidates on Ancestry.ca for a Violet Campbell born in England in the 1921 Canadian census index. Of course the transcribers could have horribly botched her name as they did with one of my families. AW > -----Original Message----- From: Jenny M Benson > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 11:09 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: looking for a Violet GEARY death after 1969 > > On 30/01/2015 16:15, Bob Campbell via wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Subject: looking for a Violet GEARY death registered in Surrey post >> 1980 to compare birthdates >> >> I am trying to track down the last possible location for a Violet >> GEARY. What I do know about Violet IF she is mine........ born Violet >> CAMPBELL at Woolwich 12th July 1901 Shown in the 1911 census as a 9 >> year old at a Catholic Orphanage at Croydon Surrey. by the process of >> elimination there is a POSSIBLE marriage to Arthur W.C GEARY >> registered in the June 1/4 of 1919 by which time she would be 17 the >> couple had 5 children between 1920 and 1931 all born at Croydon. The >> registration of her husband Arthur William C. GEARY's death in 1969 >> at Surrey S.E. No "most likely death registered for Violet any where >> on FreeBMD after 1969 , and likewise no second marriage. Any help >> would be appreciated >> > Any chance she was the Violet Campbell, aged 11, who was shipped out to > Canada in 1913 aboard the Corsican? The large number of unaccompanied > (ie not with family) children suggests it was taking "British Home > Children" (I think they were called that) to Quebec. A very likely > outcome for a child in orphanage at that time. >

Am attempting to piece together the last years of my great grandfather Frederick William Campbell.... Here is what I know so far, He was discharged from the army as a Chelsea Pensioner in 1907 At Shepherds Bush in 1911 he is aged 44 both a pensioner and a postman Described as a widower he later remarried the widow householder in the 1911 census The marriage in 1915 shows him as a messenger for the War OFFice at age 48 The 1922 marriage of his son has his occupation also as a messenger for the War Office His 2nd wife died in 1932, still living at Shepherds Bush, Frederick would be 65 and was still described as a Messenger in the War Office. My questions being would there a record of him in either or both in the Post Office or Army records? Would a Post Office employee be a messenger for the War Office? Frederick may have died at Kensington in 1938 but the age stated appears incorrect! Cheers from Bob Campbell

"Bob Campbell via" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > Am attempting to piece together the last years of my great grandfather > Frederick William Campbell.... > Here is what I know so far, > He was discharged from the army as a Chelsea Pensioner in 1907 > At Shepherds Bush in 1911 he is aged 44 both a pensioner and a postman > Described as a widower he later remarried the widow householder in the > 1911 census > The marriage in 1915 shows him as a messenger for the War OFFice at age 48 > The 1922 marriage of his son has his occupation also as a messenger for > the War Office > His 2nd wife died in 1932, still living at Shepherds Bush, Frederick would > be 65 and was still described as a Messenger in the War Office. > My questions being would there a record of him in either or both in the > Post Office or Army records? > Would a Post Office employee be a messenger for the War Office? > Frederick may have died at Kensington in 1938 but the age stated appears > incorrect! > > Cheers from > Bob Campbell > My grandfather's brother was a postman in London and Worthing and his appointment, having passed Civil Service exams is noted in the London Gazette in 1901 - as was his promotion to telegraphist.

Just incase anyone is searching this family, please note that my email address is now: [email protected] I look forward to any enquiries although I have lost touch with George I am still looking for descendants of Louisa Cadbury VIZARD nee BAYNES. Seeya Soonly, Michelle Kahler.

> Am attempting to piece together the last years of my great grandfather > Frederick William Campbell.... > Here is what I know so far, > He was discharged from the army as a Chelsea Pensioner in 1907 > At Shepherds Bush in 1911 he is aged 44 both a pensioner and a postman > Described as a widower he later remarried the widow householder in the 1911 > census > The marriage in 1915 shows him as a messenger for the War OFFice at age 48 > The 1922 marriage of his son has his occupation also as a messenger for the > War Office > His 2nd wife died in 1932, still living at Shepherds Bush, Frederick would > be 65 and was still described as a Messenger in the War Office. > My questions being would there a record of him in either or both in the Post > Office or Army records? Civil Service list should include him and state salary. > Would a Post Office employee be a messenger for the War Office? Probably went from one to the other, with his Army service to recommend him. He would be about on the age limit for call-up, but to be on the safe side, he may then have joined the Civil Service - and working for the War Office would be in a reserved occupation. > Frederick may have died at Kensington in 1938 but the age stated appears > incorrect! Remember the man who knows the correct age is in no position to say. The informant may have looked at him and guessed/ EVE Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

On 03/02/15 19:26, Bob Campbell via wrote: %>< > My questions being would there a record of him in either or both in the > Post Office or Army records? > Would a Post Office employee be a messenger for the War Office? I'd have thought that a messenger for the War Office would have been employed directly by the War Office so he'd have been a Civil Servant. > Frederick may have died at Kensington in 1938 but the age stated appears > incorrect! One of the key factors here is that the deceased doesn't get questioned about his age. What goes on the record is what the informant said so look at what appears to be the relationship between the deceased & the informant. Is the informant likely to have known or to have guessed the age? -- Ian The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang at austonley org uk

On 03/02/2015 3:36 PM, Bob Campbell via wrote: > Anne, > thanks for looking. > So you eliminated the possible Violet Campbell born 1902 who was on the > 1921 census shown with no parents or spouse at Winnepeg, Manitoba. > I used the search engine only but of course no details came up, the > above Violet appeared at the top of the list when I input born in > England and her birth year 1902 and the year of arrival 1913. > Does the 1921 census say whether a person is Roman Catholic? > Back to the drawing board! Hi Bob, That Violet Campbell was actually married; husband's name was Joseph. She'd also been born in Ireland and listed as Presbyterian. Ann > -----Original Message----- From: Ann Watson > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 2:53 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: looking for a Violet GEARY death after 1969 > > > I couldn't find any likely candidates on Ancestry.ca for a Violet > Campbell born in England in the 1921 Canadian census index. Of course > the transcribers could have horribly botched her name as they did with > one of my families. > > AW > >> -----Original Message----- From: Jenny M Benson >> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 11:09 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: looking for a Violet GEARY death after 1969 >> >> On 30/01/2015 16:15, Bob Campbell via wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Subject: looking for a Violet GEARY death registered in Surrey post >>> 1980 to compare birthdates >>> >>> I am trying to track down the last possible location for a Violet >>> GEARY. What I do know about Violet IF she is mine........ born Violet >>> CAMPBELL at Woolwich 12th July 1901 Shown in the 1911 census as a 9 >>> year old at a Catholic Orphanage at Croydon Surrey. by the process of >>> elimination there is a POSSIBLE marriage to Arthur W.C GEARY >>> registered in the June 1/4 of 1919 by which time she would be 17 the >>> couple had 5 children between 1920 and 1931 all born at Croydon. The >>> registration of her husband Arthur William C. GEARY's death in 1969 >>> at Surrey S.E. No "most likely death registered for Violet any where >>> on FreeBMD after 1969 , and likewise no second marriage. Any help >>> would be appreciated >>> >> Any chance she was the Violet Campbell, aged 11, who was shipped out to >> Canada in 1913 aboard the Corsican? The large number of unaccompanied >> (ie not with family) children suggests it was taking "British Home >> Children" (I think they were called that) to Quebec. A very likely >> outcome for a child in orphanage at that time. >> > >

n > >> I have not come across an instance of a person having a different baptismal name to his/ her registered name. This is something I have found pretty frequently -sometimes under pressure from the grandparents, sometimes because a handy rich relative turns up and there are Hopes...It gets really confusing when the baby registered as William Smith becomes George Arthur William later. But another factor which may be necessary to consider is that a man named and emigrating as plain Joe Bloggs would often award himself a middle name for the effort of crossing the sea. The decsendants sometimes get quite miffed that Joseph Starthmore Bloogs can't be found as such - and sometimes that middle name is family, sometimes the ship carrying him. EVE Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

On 03/02/2015 13:33, Ann Watson wrote: > On 03/02/2015 3:22 AM, Graeme Wall wrote: >> On 02/02/2015 22:35, Charles Ellson wrote: >>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2015 20:32:50 +0000, Graeme Wall >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On 02/02/2015 20:21, hownhelcymru wrote: >>>>> "It's a Catholic practice but not necessarily widespread. When you >>>>> are >>>>> baptised you get a baptismal (saint's) name that may or may not be one >>>>> of your existing names. In some cases that name may get adopted as >>>>> part >>>>> of the person's name in later life. I've no idea how common a >>>>> practice >>>>> it is but it may explain why someone with no middle name at birth >>>>> acquires one in later life." >>>>> >>>>> As a life long catholic with scottish and irish roots I have not >>>>> come across this practice. [That is why I asked whether this was a >>>>> peculiarly English custom] >>>>> >>>>> I have not come across an instance of a person having a different >>>>> baptismal name to his/ her registered name. >>>>> >>>>> A saint's name, chosen at Confirmation, has been added to secular >>>>> documentation in some instances, but not as a rule. >>>>> Thank you for the information >>>>> >>>>> Helenor Jones >>>>> >>>> >>>> I thought it was an Irish practice, the Catholic side of my family >>>> comes >>>> from Cork. >>>> >>> The usual version I've encountered in the few RC cases I've come >>> across in England and Scotland is a child being registered with their >>> first name and the middle name being the one added at baptism but not >>> retrospectively added to their birth registration. >>> >> >> But could appear on the marriage certificate. I seem to have caused >> some confusion, I never meant that the name would be added to the birth >> certificate retrospectively. Baptismal and/or confirmation names could >> be added to a person's full name in later life, especially if they are >> devout. >> > My maternal grandfather's maternal first cousin (confusing?) was > registered as "Charles Kirkland X" (his dad's first name plus his > paternal grandmother's family name). I had a hard time finding the > family in the census because he was known as "Widmer". On his marriage > licence he gave his name as Charles Widmer Nelles Kirkland X. I've no > idea where the other names came from; his dad was C of E and his mother > Presbyterian. His dad's side of the family didn't seem particularly > devout, just odd. > Odd is always an option :-) -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

On 01/02/2015 2:41 AM, Bob Campbell via wrote: > Jenny, > that's a distinct possibility I had not considered. > Age is about right. > I has been a number of years since I accessed Canadian records > especially those for the home children. > Are the arriving passenger lists now available online? > A later marriage for her perhaps? > An entry in the Canada 1921 census as she would then be 19? I couldn't find any likely candidates on Ancestry.ca for a Violet Campbell born in England in the 1921 Canadian census index. Of course the transcribers could have horribly botched her name as they did with one of my families. AW > -----Original Message----- From: Jenny M Benson > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 11:09 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: looking for a Violet GEARY death after 1969 > > On 30/01/2015 16:15, Bob Campbell via wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Subject: looking for a Violet GEARY death registered in Surrey post >> 1980 to compare birthdates >> >> I am trying to track down the last possible location for a Violet >> GEARY. What I do know about Violet IF she is mine........ born Violet >> CAMPBELL at Woolwich 12th July 1901 Shown in the 1911 census as a 9 >> year old at a Catholic Orphanage at Croydon Surrey. by the process of >> elimination there is a POSSIBLE marriage to Arthur W.C GEARY >> registered in the June 1/4 of 1919 by which time she would be 17 the >> couple had 5 children between 1920 and 1931 all born at Croydon. The >> registration of her husband Arthur William C. GEARY's death in 1969 >> at Surrey S.E. No "most likely death registered for Violet any where >> on FreeBMD after 1969 , and likewise no second marriage. Any help >> would be appreciated >> > Any chance she was the Violet Campbell, aged 11, who was shipped out to > Canada in 1913 aboard the Corsican? The large number of unaccompanied > (ie not with family) children suggests it was taking "British Home > Children" (I think they were called that) to Quebec. A very likely > outcome for a child in orphanage at that time. >

On 03/02/2015 3:24 AM, Graeme Wall wrote: > On 02/02/2015 22:35, Ann Watson wrote: >> On 02/02/2015 3:21 PM, hownhelcymru wrote: >>> "It's a Catholic practice but not necessarily widespread. When you are >>> baptised you get a baptismal (saint's) name that may or may not be one >>> of your existing names. In some cases that name may get adopted as part >>> of the person's name in later life. I've no idea how common a practice >>> it is but it may explain why someone with no middle name at birth >>> acquires one in later life." >>> >>> As a life long catholic with scottish and irish roots I have not come >>> across this practice. [That is why I asked whether this was a >>> peculiarly English custom] >>> >>> I have not come across an instance of a person having a different >>> baptismal name to his/ her registered name. >>> >>> A saint's name, chosen at Confirmation, has been added to secular >>> documentation in some instances, but not as a rule. >>> Thank you for the information >> >> I gather if one of your registered names is a already a saint's name or >> a variation thereof, you don't need one added at baptism? >> > > Not necessarily :-) I didn't get one at baptism but then I've got two > saints names already! However I did at Confirmation. > > I had two saints' names at baptism as well and unintentionally added a third when I later decided to adjust my name. My mother was nominally Roman Catholic; with a Jesuit maternal uncle she had to be, but baptism was the extent of our involvement with Roman Catholicism. AW