On Nov 15, 5:19 pm, "Hayley" <ha...@e-wire.net.au> wrote: > My  parents and grandparents always told me - if you can't say something > nice then don't say anything at all........ Well, we could have a discussion about all the bad things which have happened because people were being "nice" instead of being honest, but that would be off topic. > Sorry just think this was an unnecessary reply I disagree. After 12 years of trawling through these messages I think it could be the most helpful reply the original poster receives. Because, if people have to read a message 5 or 6 times to work out what the poster is trying to say, they just give up - they're too busy. Punctuation and spelling and grammar aren't optional extras - they are necessary to make your meaning clear. If someone asks for help but can't be bothered to ask the question clearly, then others aren't going to be bothered to reply. So the person seeking help misses out. It's just a matter of good manners: if you ask for help, please assist the helpers to help! Vivien