Maurice, This post is 13 years old, nearly 14 infact. It's very possible that your reply will not be read by ronh. Di <mauricelot@clear.net.nz> wrote in message news:8bc05b36-a1d7-4e1f-aab9-5a8060036480@googlegroups.com... > On Thursday, May 4, 2000 7:00:00 PM UTC+12, ronh wrote: >> Anyone with any leads on the following three brothers, who may have >> settled in the Hawkes Bay East Coast areas. >> >> Frederick, Henry John and Herbert Guy WILLIAMS born in NZ to Frederick >> Kennedy Williams (1834-1878) and Merehana (Mary Susan) WHITEHOUSE who >> occasionally also used the surnames of her stepfathers, HOLMES and >> OWENS. >> >> Frederick, Henry John and Herbert Guy WILLIAMS had three sisters, Edith >> (HAWKER), Mary Anne (Sissy) CROSS and Anne (?), plus five half brothers, >> William Henry Rigby, George Rigby, Henry Rigby, John Blaine (Blane?) and >> Thomas Blaine. >> >> Familiar to anyone? >> >> ronh >> > My wife is a direct descendant of Herbert Guy Williams.

On Thursday, May 4, 2000 7:00:00 PM UTC+12, ronh wrote: > Anyone with any leads on the following three brothers, who may have > settled in the Hawkes Bay East Coast areas. > > Frederick, Henry John and Herbert Guy WILLIAMS born in NZ to Frederick > Kennedy Williams (1834-1878) and Merehana (Mary Susan) WHITEHOUSE who > occasionally also used the surnames of her stepfathers, HOLMES and > OWENS. > > Frederick, Henry John and Herbert Guy WILLIAMS had three sisters, Edith > (HAWKER), Mary Anne (Sissy) CROSS and Anne (?), plus five half brothers, > William Henry Rigby, George Rigby, Henry Rigby, John Blaine (Blane?) and > Thomas Blaine. > > Familiar to anyone? > > ronh > My wife is a direct descendant of Herbert Guy Williams.

Hi Maurice I am the grand daughter of the late Joseph Fletcher Barnes. i have just located your post dated 1999 however I'm hoping the email will find you. My father Kevin George Fletcher Barnes was born in 1939, his mother Christina Alice Barnes was Joseph's wife. Please contact me if you receive this email. Kind Regards Nicole Barnes

Hello Ron, Have you tried to contact Tanya on her email address as this post is 15 years old. Good luck, Di <laraghy@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f0c0714d-a6d9-4b65-ae11-196dbeefc897@googlegroups.com... On Tuesday, March 10, 1998 7:00:00 PM UTC+11, Tanya Harris wrote: > I am trying to find a Rona May CROSSLAND (b:1916) who married Jack > ROSTRON in Sydney in 1939 or any descendants of this family. Rona's > mother was an Ivy May FLETCHER (b:1888). My grandmother is Ivy's > youngest sister. Any information about this family would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thank you, > Tanya Harris > tharris@uq.net.au Hi Tanya, my name is Ron Laraghy I am a grandson of Ivy May and nephew of Rona Rostron. Her son and daughter (Robbie and Susan Rostron) are my 1st cousins. My mother Norma Joan Kippax Crossland and Rona were sisters. By any chance are you the daughter of either Ann or Lynn Fletcher, whose mother was Phyllis Fletcher? I realise it has been a looooong time since you posted this question, but better late than never. Hoping to hear from you..... Ron Laraghy. you can email me at laraghy@gmail.com

On Tuesday, March 10, 1998 7:00:00 PM UTC+11, Tanya Harris wrote: > I am trying to find a Rona May CROSSLAND (b:1916) who married Jack > ROSTRON in Sydney in 1939 or any descendants of this family. Rona's > mother was an Ivy May FLETCHER (b:1888). My grandmother is Ivy's > youngest sister. Any information about this family would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thank you, > Tanya Harris > tharris@uq.net.au Hi Tanya, my name is Ron Laraghy I am a grandson of Ivy May and nephew of Rona Rostron. Her son and daughter (Robbie and Susan Rostron) are my 1st cousins. My mother Norma Joan Kippax Crossland and Rona were sisters. By any chance are you the daughter of either Ann or Lynn Fletcher, whose mother was Phyllis Fletcher? I realise it has been a looooong time since you posted this question, but better late than never. Hoping to hear from you..... Ron Laraghy. you can email me at laraghy@gmail.com

On 12/11/2013 14:39, mauricelot@clear.net.nz wrote: > On Saturday, November 7, 1998 9:00:00 PM UTC+13, M & R Ingerton wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> Can anyone tell me where I can find the passenger list for the Isabella >> Hercus which arrived from Plymouth at Lyttleton, March 1, 1851? >> Specifically looking for John BROWN, born c 1830, Wereham, Norfolk. >> Also, possibly Mary Jeffries, born c 1833, also Norfolk. >> Thanks >> Margaret, Wellington NZ > Hi Margaret, > > Looks like it's awhile since you wrote that, Did you find a list ? My Great Great Grandmother was also on that sailing. She would have been about 21 yrs old. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENANZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Hi Maurice, There is a list at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nzbound/ih.htm <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Enzbound/ih.htm> My husband's Hughes ancestors were on that ship too. Cheers Karen.

On Saturday, November 7, 1998 9:00:00 PM UTC+13, M & R Ingerton wrote: > Hi everyone, > Can anyone tell me where I can find the passenger list for the Isabella > Hercus which arrived from Plymouth at Lyttleton, March 1, 1851? > Specifically looking for John BROWN, born c 1830, Wereham, Norfolk. > Also, possibly Mary Jeffries, born c 1833, also Norfolk. > Thanks > Margaret, Wellington NZ Hi Margaret, Looks like it's awhile since you wrote that, Did you find a list ? My Great Great Grandmother was also on that sailing. She would have been about 21 yrs old.

"MartinE" wrote in message news:0971044c-ef5d-4f4e-8db7-33fba19c38dc@googlegroups.com... Hi Kate. Yes, for Martha I have only downloaded one cert, the 1879 one (Yarra Bend L.A.). The age given on the cert is 22 years, not 45 (perhaps a transcription error somewhere?). That fits in pretty well with John Derbyshire's daughter's birth in 1856 (she was probably closer to 21). That's excellent Martin just another indication of mistakes in Indices, a sad story all the way down the line for this family but I'm glad you found Martha. Kate I was trying to think what sort of scenario would see her die without any family around her (the section for parents' details on her death cert says "not known"). Perhaps she left home as a young woman due to problems (caused by early indications of mental illness perhaps), moved to Melbourne, became dislocated from her parents and in later years admitted to the asylum. For the 1899 death (Martha Darbyshire), I located her in the PROV's online records, Register of Patients (Sunbury). She was admitted 24 July 1888 but age was listed as unknown. An Ancestry record for the death said she was 30, which if correct, does not match. I imagine the inquest for the 1899 death is for the same person. The 1879 death cert also refers to a coroners inquest, so I imagine it was/is standard procedure for deaths in those institutions. Thanks for your help with this. regards, Martin On Sunday, November 10, 2013 2:37:43 PM UTC+11, Kate wrote: > Martin did you download just the one certificate? The one who died of > cancer > at Yarra Bend 1879 was 45, that was the one on the Inquest CD, she would > have been too old to be your Martha. The other one 1879 on the Pioneer > Index > was 22, though why they were not both there > I think I added in my earlier post there was another Martha Darbyshire on > the Inquest CD, no details, died 1799 Ref No 402. > > All rather confusing with so little detail recorded and you can't keep > buying certificates off the cuff. > > > Regards, Kate > (Sydney, Australia)

"MartinE" wrote in message news:b6847920-e0a8-48f6-8552-1dd17dc2b533@googlegroups.com... Downloaded the 1879 death cert for Martha Darbyshire and she died in the Yarra Bend Lunatic Asylum. Curiously, 4 out of the 5 deaths on the cert were all patients of that institution, all within about a month. Though cause of death for Martha was cancer, disease of the brain was given as the cause for the other three unfortunates. Martin did you download just the one certificate? The one who died of cancer at Yarra Bend 1879 was 45, that was the one on the Inquest CD, she would have been too old to be your Martha. The other one 1879 on the Pioneer Index was 22, though why they were not both there I think I added in my earlier post there was another Martha Darbyshire on the Inquest CD, no details, died 1799 Ref No 402. All rather confusing with so little detail recorded and you can't keep buying certificates off the cuff. Regards, Kate (Sydney, Australia) Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 Query ----- Surname : *shire (486 matches) Given Names : martha (10073 matches) Event : d (418821 matches) Total matching records: 3 -------------------- Surname: DARBYSHIRE Given Names: Martha Event: D Spouse Surname/Father: Unknown Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Age: 22 Sex: Birth Place: UNKNOWN Death Place: Year: 1879 Reg Number: 11410 Denomination: Parish: Fiche:

Hi, I have just come in on this conversation and recently I found an ancestor of mine being in and dying at Kew Assylum.She was admitted with "Melancolia" which looking further she had Post Natal Depression after loosing a child.We found some information on line but we then made a visit to the PROV and ordered her medical records and inquest details etc.While looking through the books on some of the patients records it was terribly sad and very confronting but it is part of our families history and their lives are just as important as anyone else so I believe we need to know their history.I am so glad we live today and not then as at least for Post Natal Depression there is a bit more known about it today than then and the treatment is certainly better.Some of the records we went through actually had very sad looking photo's of the patients but nevertheless a photo just the same.We were able to photograph the original documents with out digital camera which all came out great.I would recommend to anyone with a relative found in an assylum to make a trip to the PROV and look up the mountain of information available. Regards, Elaine Skehan. -----Original Message----- From: genanz-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:genanz-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of MartinE Sent: Saturday, 9 November 2013 8:50 PM To: genanz@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: John Derbyshire/Darbyshire - Tas convict, limeburner inSorrento/Portsea, 1803-1886 - Long post Thanks again, Kate. Yes, the 1879 one could well be her. I did find the 1899 one in Ancestry last night and it gave the location of death as the Sunbury Lunatic Asylum (that might explain the vagueness about her age, I thought). I managed to locate her in the PROV online records for that institution but then realised the age was not right. Sad reading, though was nice to see some as "cured". Lee-Ann, thanks very much for finding Thomas Darbyshire. I appreciate it. I wasn't aware that pre 1900 TAS records are available via FamilySearch.org (I had been using that site for other searches). I'll order the cert. cheers, Martin ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENANZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Kate. Yes, for Martha I have only downloaded one cert, the 1879 one (Yarra Bend L.A.). The age given on the cert is 22 years, not 45 (perhaps a transcription error somewhere?). That fits in pretty well with John Derbyshire's daughter's birth in 1856 (she was probably closer to 21). I was trying to think what sort of scenario would see her die without any family around her (the section for parents' details on her death cert says "not known"). Perhaps she left home as a young woman due to problems (caused by early indications of mental illness perhaps), moved to Melbourne, became dislocated from her parents and in later years admitted to the asylum. For the 1899 death (Martha Darbyshire), I located her in the PROV's online records, Register of Patients (Sunbury). She was admitted 24 July 1888 but age was listed as unknown. An Ancestry record for the death said she was 30, which if correct, does not match. I imagine the inquest for the 1899 death is for the same person. The 1879 death cert also refers to a coroners inquest, so I imagine it was/is standard procedure for deaths in those institutions. Thanks for your help with this. regards, Martin On Sunday, November 10, 2013 2:37:43 PM UTC+11, Kate wrote: > Martin did you download just the one certificate? The one who died of cancer > at Yarra Bend 1879 was 45, that was the one on the Inquest CD, she would > have been too old to be your Martha. The other one 1879 on the Pioneer Index > was 22, though why they were not both there > I think I added in my earlier post there was another Martha Darbyshire on > the Inquest CD, no details, died 1799 Ref No 402. > > All rather confusing with so little detail recorded and you can't keep > buying certificates off the cuff. > > > Regards, Kate > (Sydney, Australia)

Thanks, Elaine. I agree, it is sad looking through these records but definitely worth doing for any relatives. You can't cherry-pick all the nice bits in your family history and leave out the sad parts, can you. If the person I was looking for was my relative, I would go to the PROV for more info as you suggest, but in this case they are not my relatives. I'm looking into it as part of the local history of Sorrento (my home town). Unfortunately, this particular family, that of John Derbyshire, limeburner, is not without tragedy - his father died a convict in Hobart in 1842, his first wife seems to have died just a few months after they were married in 1853 (though I haven't found her death yet), two children from the second marriage died as babies (1855 and 1862) and possibly another daughter survived to adulthood but died in an asylum. The PROV has some of the mental health records (indexes) online, along with other records: http://prov.vic.gov.au/provguide-23 Thanks. Martin On Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:42:28 AM UTC+11, Briansk wrote: > Hi, > > I have just come in on this conversation and recently I found an ancestor of > mine being in and dying at Kew Assylum.She was admitted with "Melancolia" > which looking further she had Post Natal Depression after loosing a child.We > found some information on line but we then made a visit to the PROV and > ordered her medical records and inquest details etc.While looking through > the books on some of the patients records it was terribly sad and very > confronting but it is part of our families history and their lives are just > as important as anyone else so I believe we need to know their history.I am > so glad we live today and not then as at least for Post Natal Depression > there is a bit more known about it today than then and the treatment is > certainly better.Some of the records we went through actually had very sad > looking photo's of the patients but nevertheless a photo just the same.We > were able to photograph the original documents with out digital camera which > all came out great.I would recommend to anyone with a relative found in an > assylum to make a trip to the PROV and look up the mountain of information > available. > > Regards, > > Elaine Skehan.

"MartinE" wrote in message news:c97294b0-cf1e-4cd3-aa79-2b285958064b@googlegroups.com... Hi. Looking for assistance on finding any Australian records for the children of John Derbyshire/Darbyshire and Charlotte Meek. Darby's rock (also known as Darby's monument) at Sorrento ocean beach was named after this gentleman, after he became marooned on the rock sometime in the mid 1800s and spent 4 days and 3 nights there. Here's a summary of what I've found: - John Derbyshire was born/christened in High Legh (parish of Rostherne), Cheshire, England in 1803. Parents were Thomas Derbyshire and Martha Hewitt. - John and his father Thomas both appear to have been convicted at Chester Quarter Sessions on 9th April 1829 (John for larceny, Thomas for receiving stolen goods). They were sentenced to 7 years and 14 years transportation respectively. Transported to V.D.L. on the Bussorah Merchant, which arrived in Hobart 18 Jan 1830. - John got his ticket of leave in 1835, whereas Thomas's convict record says "Died 11 Nov'r 1842". I'm thinking that he died as a convict in Tasmania (from his convict record, he received harsh treatment for misdemeanors). - John Derbyshire later recounted that he came out from Van Diemen's Land with Gellibrand's party in 1835 (possibly 1836, from the biography of the lawyer and explorer, who died in 1837). - Derbyshire later settled at Point Nepean (Portsea) and was for a time a limeburner. - He appears to have married Elizabeth Ann Miles on 29 Jan 1853 (however the cert I downloaded for this is a little odd - it's just a hand-written signed statement by Derbyshire and a church minister to the effect that the marriage took place). - His 2nd marriage was to Charlotte Meek 30 May 1854 in Geelong. On the cert, he wrote "Widower April 1853", however I haven't been able to find his 1st wife's death. Local history has it that she is buried in a small cemetery on Sorrento golf course (used before the current Sorrento cemetery). - On John's death certificate in 1886 (name given as Darbyshire), his children were listed as: Elizabeth, deceased. Martha, age not known. Jane, deceased. - I located an additional child, Charlotte, who died as a baby in 1862, and also found Martha's birth at Point Nepean in 1856. Apart from that, I can't seem to find anything for Elizabeth or Jane, and also what happened to Martha (alive in 1886). - John's wife, Charlotte, possibly died in Collingwood in 1906 and was buried in Springvale cemetery (unmarked grave). I have temporarily placed copies of some files and certificates here: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxlGEUmD-tydU0lFWE1mcHhpRXc&usp=sharing If anyone can provide any info on the Derbyshire/Darbyshire children or whether Thomas Derbyshire (the father) died in Tasmania in 1841, I would very much appreciate it. At some point in the future, the Nepean Historical Society may look at erecting a plaque for Derbyshire in Sorrento somewhere, hence my search for information. regards, Martin Elliget Greensborough, Victoria This Martha fits with the year of birth, looks like she was somewhere away from family, Informant only said age unknown but possibly was unaware she was already dead. Could be yours, I have not found her elsewhere apart from an entry on Inquest CD shows a Martha Darbyshire d 1899, no age or other details, Ref No 402, see second record below, age doesn't tally with your Martha. Having more luck with this than the horses. Kate Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 Surname: DARBYSHIRE Given Names: Martha Event: D Spouse Surname/Father: Unknown Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Age: 22 Sex: Birth Place: UNKNOWN Death Place: Year: 1879 Reg Number: 11410 Denomination: Parish: Fiche: Digger - Federation Index. Victoria 1889-1901 Query ----- Surname : *shire (261 matches) Given Names : martha (3773 matches) Total matching records: 5 -------------------- Surname: DARBYSHIRE Given Names: Martha Event: D Sex: Spouse Surname/Father: Unknown Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Unknown UNKNOWN Age: 30 Age Code: Birth Place: Death Place: Sbury L A Year: 1899 Reg. Number: 7650

"MartinE" wrote in message news:c97294b0-cf1e-4cd3-aa79-2b285958064b@googlegroups.com... Hi. Looking for assistance on finding any Australian records for the children of John Derbyshire/Darbyshire and Charlotte Meek. Darby's rock (also known as Darby's monument) at Sorrento ocean beach was named after this gentleman, after he became marooned on the rock sometime in the mid 1800s and spent 4 days and 3 nights there. Here's a summary of what I've found: - John Derbyshire was born/christened in High Legh (parish of Rostherne), Cheshire, England in 1803. Parents were Thomas Derbyshire and Martha Hewitt. - John and his father Thomas both appear to have been convicted at Chester Quarter Sessions on 9th April 1829 (John for larceny, Thomas for receiving stolen goods). They were sentenced to 7 years and 14 years transportation respectively. Transported to V.D.L. on the Bussorah Merchant, which arrived in Hobart 18 Jan 1830. - John got his ticket of leave in 1835, whereas Thomas's convict record says "Died 11 Nov'r 1842". I'm thinking that he died as a convict in Tasmania (from his convict record, he received harsh treatment for misdemeanors). - John Derbyshire later recounted that he came out from Van Diemen's Land with Gellibrand's party in 1835 (possibly 1836, from the biography of the lawyer and explorer, who died in 1837). - Derbyshire later settled at Point Nepean (Portsea) and was for a time a limeburner. - He appears to have married Elizabeth Ann Miles on 29 Jan 1853 (however the cert I downloaded for this is a little odd - it's just a hand-written signed statement by Derbyshire and a church minister to the effect that the marriage took place). - His 2nd marriage was to Charlotte Meek 30 May 1854 in Geelong. On the cert, he wrote "Widower April 1853", however I haven't been able to find his 1st wife's death. Local history has it that she is buried in a small cemetery on Sorrento golf course (used before the current Sorrento cemetery). - On John's death certificate in 1886 (name given as Darbyshire), his children were listed as: Elizabeth, deceased. Martha, age not known. Jane, deceased. - I located an additional child, Charlotte, who died as a baby in 1862, and also found Martha's birth at Point Nepean in 1856. Apart from that, I can't seem to find anything for Elizabeth or Jane, and also what happened to Martha (alive in 1886). - John's wife, Charlotte, possibly died in Collingwood in 1906 and was buried in Springvale cemetery (unmarked grave). I have temporarily placed copies of some files and certificates here: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxlGEUmD-tydU0lFWE1mcHhpRXc&usp=sharing If anyone can provide any info on the Derbyshire/Darbyshire children or whether Thomas Derbyshire (the father) died in Tasmania in 1841, I would very much appreciate it. At some point in the future, the Nepean Historical Society may look at erecting a plaque for Derbyshire in Sorrento somewhere, hence my search for information. regards, Martin Elliget Greensborough, Victoria Hi Martin Doing this in between watching Horse racing on TV so a little hit and miss. I think a lot depends on the Informant for John's death certificate. I can only find the three births for this couple. The first child Charlotte Elizabeth might well be the Elizabeth dec. you're looking for and the child b/d 1862 was also named Charlotte on the "Death Index" . Perhaps this was correct or (so many mistakes on Indices/Certificates) it should have been Jane OR there might not have been a Jane at all the Informant got it wrong and it was a second Charlotte. That's all for the moment. Regards, Kate (Sydney, Australia) Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 Surname: DERBERSHIRE Given Names: ChTte Elizth Event: B Spouse Surname/Father: Jno Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: ChTte MEEK Age: Sex: Birth Place: PT NEPEAN Death Place: Year: 1855 Reg Number: 4912 Denomination: Parish: Fiche: Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 Surname: DERBYSHIRE Given Names: Charlotte Elizth Event: D Spouse Surname/Father: John Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Charlotte UNKNOWN Age: 3M Sex: Birth Place: POIN Death Place: Year: 1855 Reg Number: 3587 Denomination: Parish: Fiche: Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 Query ----- Surname : *shire (486 matches) Event : b (926847 matches) Spouse Surname/Fathe : john (203119 matches) Spouse Gvn Names/Mot : char* (24880 matches) Total matching records: 4 -------------------- Surname: DERBYSHIRE Given Names: Unnamed Female Event: B Spouse Surname/Father: John Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Charlotte MEEK Age: Sex: Birth Place: MELB Death Place: Year: 1862 Reg Number: 3484 Denomination: Parish: Fiche: Surname: DERBYSHIRE Given Names: Charlotte Event: D Spouse Surname/Father: John Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Charlotte MEEK Age: 1D Sex: Birth Place: MELBOURNE Death Place: Year: 1862 Reg Number: 2080 Denomination: Parish: Fiche:

Thomas DARBYSHIRE Died 11 Nov 1842 Hobart Age 62yrs Reg.no.1233 RGD35 You will need the details from the Tas pioneer index (above) to locate the death certificate The pre 1900 Tas bdms are online free at FamilySearch.org And the Tasmanian Archives (TAHO) are in the process of putting them online too. Regards Lee-Ann

Downloaded the 1879 death cert for Martha Darbyshire and she died in the Yarra Bend Lunatic Asylum. Curiously, 4 out of the 5 deaths on the cert were all patients of that institution, all within about a month. Though cause of death for Martha was cancer, disease of the brain was given as the cause for the other three unfortunates.

Thanks again, Kate. Yes, the 1879 one could well be her. I did find the 1899 one in Ancestry last night and it gave the location of death as the Sunbury Lunatic Asylum (that might explain the vagueness about her age, I thought). I managed to locate her in the PROV online records for that institution but then realised the age was not right. Sad reading, though was nice to see some as "cured". Lee-Ann, thanks very much for finding Thomas Darbyshire. I appreciate it. I wasn't aware that pre 1900 TAS records are available via FamilySearch.org (I had been using that site for other searches). I'll order the cert. cheers, Martin

Paul, Adding some extra to my earlier e-mail..... Another hidden gem also on the home page of the Jane Austen site: http://janeaustensworld.wordpress.com/page/2/ half way down Seems you man might have been the height of fashion if he was on the London scene:.. John Tallis: ..... seems to use the same neck-tie pattern http://janeaustensworld.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/john-tallis.jpg Cheers, Tony @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ On 7 Nov 2013 at 17:43, pblair wrote: Date sent: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 17:43:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Anyone know the 'dress'? From: pblair <pblair@pcug.org.au> To: genanz@rootsweb.com > On Friday, November 8, 2013 11:07:23 AM UTC+11, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > Paul > > > > > > > > This looks like a smoking cap to me. These were common in the mid to > > > > late nineteenth century. Originally intended to prevent the smell of > > > > smoke in the hair, hence the name, they became a general sort of > > > > informal evening cap for gentlemen relaxing at home. A bit of googling > > > > will show you many examples. > > Best > > > > > > > > Lloyd

Dear Paul, I initially had other thoughts about the hat/cap as being a tam o' shanter / balmoral cap / glengarry cap but certainly Lloyd's suggestion fits far better and would be more in keeping with the ornamentation around the hat band. After using google images, I definitely agree with him. If you again use google images for "smoking jacket" it seems to reflect the coat and accoutrements. The jacket seems to be a loose fit rather than figure hugging for a tailored suit coat. I couldn't find amongst all the images an exact neck-tie similar to his. Most of the images showed a bow-tie. This page shows an assortment of cravat styles in the Jane Austen era: http://tinyurl.com/yjzczx8 or the full url..... http://janeaustensworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/plate-b-the-art-of-tying-the -cravat.jpg It looks like he might even be holding a cigar between thumb and first finger of his right hand. Never took up the tobacco habit and never will. Seemed favoured once-upon-a-time. I'm glad, at long last, smokers are banished to "exterior darkness" to give the rest of humanity some clean air ! Cheers, Tony Moore (Castle Hill, NSW) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ On 7 Nov 2013 at 17:43, pblair wrote: Date sent: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 17:43:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Anyone know the 'dress'? From: pblair <pblair@pcug.org.au> To: genanz@rootsweb.com > On Friday, November 8, 2013 11:07:23 AM UTC+11, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > Paul > > This looks like a smoking cap to me. These were common in the mid to > > > > late nineteenth century. Originally intended to prevent the smell of > > > > smoke in the hair, hence the name, they became a general sort of > > > > informal evening cap for gentlemen relaxing at home. A bit of googling > > > > will show you many examples. > > Best > > Lloyd > Thanks, Lloyd. That seems a good explanation! > > Paul

Thanks, Kate. That's much appreciated. You may very well be right that the death of Charlotte Elizabeth / Charlotte (baby) is in fact the Elizabeth mentioned on John's death cert. Though not the informant, the wife Charlotte was living at the time of his death, so you would imagine the names under Issue were correct (but mistakes do happen). That just leaves Jane Derbyshire and the fate of Martha. I'm finding a LOT of typos and mistakes in Ancestry info. I used to own all the Digger and Pioneer CDs and found them much better and more reliable. I was surprised to see that there is no historical index online for Tasmania BDMs. I was hoping to check for a death of Thomas Derbyshire c1842. It would be nice if the different states and territories standardised access to the historical records. Oh well. Good luck with the horses! regards, Martin