This is a family tale - so while the facts are pretty close the embellishments may abound. Around 1918 or so Ida Wilson sister of Rose, Mary, Estelle and Jay left their house in Rochester to go to visit friends. She was never seen again. Jay traced her to a drug store in Syracuse where a bus had dropt her off - that is the last anyone knows. My father (her nephew) said they always suspected foul play - I always pretended she was in Hawaii or some exotic place. Where ever she is or what ever happended to her she is my favorite family mystery. Susan Hynes

Hi all, I am trying to solve the mystery of what happened to my great uncle. Fred Bryant from Minneapolis, MN was working with a traveling circus. He wrote that he was on his way home and would arrive shortly. He never showed up. This was between 1915 and 1920. One family member (a niece who never knew him) says that Fred's brother, a Mpls Police Officer (detective?) found him in some jail but another family member says absolutely not. In either case he never came home. Anyone have any ideas on how pick up the trail after all these years? I know there is a Circus Historical Society but don't know the address and can't find any reference on the internet. Susan Wojtowicz

Hi, This was posted on the Quaker-L list. This creates a SURNAME distribution map from 1850 to 1990 in the USA. http://www.hamrick.com/names/index.html Murray McCombs

Hi All, Have changed my directory for the map download to: http://www.interlog.com/~mmccombs/FTPLAC/FTPLAC.html This should be the Win 3.1 workaround. Murray McCombs

Thanks for the repys. I was under the impression that WWII records were unavailble. Does anyone know for sure and where would I get them? The National Archives??? Thanks again Kathy

I too had a similar experience as this with a member of my family. He was my great uncle. Family rumors were that he was 'crazy' and had been sent away. I could find nothing out when asking the family except that. Truth was, they all knew where he was and what happened to him, just wouldn't tell. Well, I tracked him using references to him in obituaries of his parents and siblings, and pinpointed him in an asylum in WI. Now I know the whole story about him. He was kicked inthe head by a horse as a young man. This caused him to have grand maul seizures and brain damage - was never 'right' afterwards. Even got aletter explaining his problems from his Dr. This all took place in the late 1800's (he died in 1972 at the age of 59). Back then, when a person was 'crazy' and sent away it was 'tradition' of the times to never speak of that person again. It was looked upon the family as a cures of sorts to have a 'looney toon' in the family. So if you have a person you can find nothing about and family refuses to speack - start digging in some of the local hospitals, etc.., this person may be right under your nose and you may never know it. Once I found out this information and relatives heard it, they all kind of sighed; like it was finally out in the open or 'oh no, here we go again!' Keep digging people! No one can dissapear without a trace. Even the stealth bomber leaves a radar trail the size of a hawk!!!! :D Cindy Johnson Morefield wrote: > > Hi All, > I have seen some references to men, who came up missing after WWI, and > thought maybe I could offer an example of what happened in our family. My > grandfather George Doerflein, who also disappeared for 40 years, had a > brother Jacob, who disappeared after WWI. No one in the family could/would > tell me what happened to him. When I became interested in the family > history and discovered he had been missing, until his death in 1953, I > started asking questions. Not one person would give me a clue, until I > stumbled onto his grave, while searching for his mother's grave. Oops!!, > I'd stumbled onto a family secret! My uncle finally told me he had > searched for Jacob, unsuccessfully, after hearing he was in Rock Springs, > Wyoming. He also said that Jacob died in Waco, Texas, and that another > uncle took care of all the arrangements. Armed with the dates and place of > death, I sent to Texas for Jacob's death certificate. When it came back, I > discovered that he had died in Dallas at the VA Hospital, and that prior to > his admission to the VA Hospital in Dallas, he had live in the VA facility > in Waco. Apparently he had been a patient of VA facilities since WWI. > Only after I uncovered all this did the family tell me about him being > there, because of 'shell shock' or 'gassing' during the war. I haven't > tried to get his records yet, but think of this everytime I see reference > to someone who disappeared after WWI. > BTW, there was a VA facility in Rock Springs, Wyoming!! > 'til later, > > Phyllis Morefield > jmorefld@shentel.net > ICQ # 3285456 > Listowner: MOREFIELD-L@rootsweb.com > VAWISE-L@rootsweb.com > > Researching in VA, WV, KY, TN, NC: MEADE, McCOY, HILL, WALKER, COUCH, > VICARS, GIBSON, MULLINS, STANLEY, ADDINGTON, BERRY, McCONNELL, MOREFIELD, > PENNINGTON, ARNOLD, DAVIS, BROWN, RAYBURN, ENSOR, DORTON, PETERSON, MANN > In PA: DOERFLEIN, LENTZ, BUPP, ROSER, HOUSEMAN > > ==== GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES Mailing List ==== > To get another copy of the Welcome Message send New mail to > GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES-L-request@rootsweb.com . > In the subject of the message type, > "archive" without the quotes. In the body of the message type, > "get welcome.txt" without the quotes.

Hi All, I have seen some references to men, who came up missing after WWI, and thought maybe I could offer an example of what happened in our family. My grandfather George Doerflein, who also disappeared for 40 years, had a brother Jacob, who disappeared after WWI. No one in the family could/would tell me what happened to him. When I became interested in the family history and discovered he had been missing, until his death in 1953, I started asking questions. Not one person would give me a clue, until I stumbled onto his grave, while searching for his mother's grave. Oops!!, I'd stumbled onto a family secret! My uncle finally told me he had searched for Jacob, unsuccessfully, after hearing he was in Rock Springs, Wyoming. He also said that Jacob died in Waco, Texas, and that another uncle took care of all the arrangements. Armed with the dates and place of death, I sent to Texas for Jacob's death certificate. When it came back, I discovered that he had died in Dallas at the VA Hospital, and that prior to his admission to the VA Hospital in Dallas, he had live in the VA facility in Waco. Apparently he had been a patient of VA facilities since WWI. Only after I uncovered all this did the family tell me about him being there, because of 'shell shock' or 'gassing' during the war. I haven't tried to get his records yet, but think of this everytime I see reference to someone who disappeared after WWI. BTW, there was a VA facility in Rock Springs, Wyoming!! 'til later, Phyllis Morefield jmorefld@shentel.net ICQ # 3285456 Listowner: MOREFIELD-L@rootsweb.com VAWISE-L@rootsweb.com Researching in VA, WV, KY, TN, NC: MEADE, McCOY, HILL, WALKER, COUCH, VICARS, GIBSON, MULLINS, STANLEY, ADDINGTON, BERRY, McCONNELL, MOREFIELD, PENNINGTON, ARNOLD, DAVIS, BROWN, RAYBURN, ENSOR, DORTON, PETERSON, MANN In PA: DOERFLEIN, LENTZ, BUPP, ROSER, HOUSEMAN

Subj: Form 80 request -Reply Date: 6/20/98 8:37:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: inquire@arch2.nara.gov (NNU Public Reference Inquire) To: ScismGenie@aol.com Welcome to the National Archives e-mail reference and information service: inquire@arch2.nara.gov ! Operated by the staff of the Customer Services Division, "inquire" is intended to provide timely responses to reference requests, or at least get the process started quickly, and to answer general inquiries about the National Archives and Records Administration. This message is automatically generated whenever the word "form" or "forms" is detected in the text of a message because we've found that it is most frequently used to obtain genealogical information. If your request is for genealogical information, certain kinds of genealogical requests must be submitted on specific forms. (AHA!) The numbers and subjects of these forms is as follows: Form 80 (Military service and pension records prior to World War I, including the Revolutionary War, War of 1812, Civil War, and Spanish-American War); Form 81 (Passenger Arrivals) Form 82 (Copies of Census Records) Form 83 (Eastern Cherokee Applications) Form 84 [Land Entry Files] Form 180 (Military service records, World War I and later). If you have indicated the FORM NUMBER, the QUANTITY needed, and YOUR POSTAL MAILING ADDRESS, our goal is to mail the forms and related leaflets within 3 to 5 working days. Requests for really large numbers of forms for institutional use may have to filled by another office (we'll take care of it!). However, if you did not do this, please resend your e-mail to: inquire@arch2.nara.gov with the FORM NUMBER(S), the QUANITY needed, and YOUR POSTAL MAILING ADDRESS. If your inquiry concerns a different subject or requires a more substantive reply, it will be evaluated by an archivist (a real person, honest!) and either answered directly, or referred to the proper reference or other office. As with any electronic system, bugs may emerge. Please send your comments, complaints, or praise about "inquire" to: rick.blondo@arch2.nara.gov .

The Story, and the mystery. Myrtle Cecile Scism, was a finalist for the 1932 Olympic diving team, for the USA, at the Training Camp in NYC, just prior to the Olympics, she apparently accidentally dove into another diver who had just dove from a lower platform, was injured and could not compete in Los Angeles. She was 20 at the time (about Feb>> May 1932) and met and married another Diver named McCann, who also did not make it to the Los Angeles games apparently. While they were married, she became pregnant with my Father. While recouperating from her injuries she went to the Panama canal zone, where apparently the wedding was annulled by her father for non-consent, the age of parental consent then was 21. Subsequently my father was born in Panama City, Panama, on 26 December 1932. My greatgrandfather, apparently had Myrtle sign adoption papers while under anesthesia. When she recovered, she was told the child had been released to an adoptive family. She was then sent back to the US by her father. She later remarried and had 7 more children. She spent the rest of her life looking for her first son. Meanwhile the Grandfather and his 3rd wife had kept the child and were raising him as their own son, in 1946, the grandfather died suddenly, and the stepgrandmother brought my father to California. This was 3000 mile from his mother and the rest of her family, after a couple of years the stepgrandmother also died, leaving my father without family. He knew his family was from Kingston NY, and that many were TugBoat captains, and he began his search for his lost family, not knowing his "older Sister" was really his mother. The mother was searching for him under the name Orville, when his true first name is Charles, he was searching for her under her true first name, Myrtle, but she was going by JIM. My father Finally Found his Mother and the rest of his half siblings, but his mother passed away 15 years before. The Mystery is who is the McCann that is his father, is he still living? I have contacted the US Olympic archivist but they only have a list of those who won medals in the actual events, and no other data. (Other swimmers of note were Johnnie Wiesmuller (Tarzan in the movies), and Buster Crabbe.) Jeff Scism

Hi everyone! I just subscribed to this list and have sat back and read the posts for the last couple of days. (Holy cow, does this list generate a lot of mail! Very active list! I can see why Nicole needed a break! :) ) Anyhow, now I guess that it's time for me to share my own unsolved family mystery! I hope it's not out of line for this list. My mystery has to do with my paternal grandmother. Here's what I do know for a fact. She was born 31 Jul 1919 in Arizona. Probably Phoenix. She was adopted by a woman named Mable (PERRY) HAYNES. Not sure if Mable was still married to "Mr." Haynes at that time but I think she probably was. My grandmothers maiden name was (adopted) Ethel Faye HAYNES. After that is when I get two versions of the story. I'll start with the more outlandish and least likely to be true version. First version says that Mable found my grandmother wrapped up in blankets near a roadside in central AZ. (Mable and "Mr." Haynes had a homestead in the Bradshaw Mountains, which is--if memory serves me correctly--north of Phoenix but south of the Verde Valley but nearer to the Verde Valley.) The second version of the story is the one that my grandmother herself shared with me about 5-7 years ago. She passed away in Feb 96. The reason she shared the story with me is that I finally just asked her right out. I had never asked her before that is because I was always told that we just didn't talk about it. When I finally did ask her and shared "Version No. 1" of this story with her she just about died laughing! When I mentioned to her that I was told not to mention it to her, her reply to that was, "Well, maybe they we afraid that I might tell you the truth." The only problem with her version of the story is that at that time, unknown to us, she was in the beginning stages of Alzheimer's disease. Although this is a very small problem due to the fact that with Alzheimer's one loses their most recent memories first. Her version of the story is that she was abandoned in a Phoenix Hospital by her birth mother. Supposedly her birth mother just gave birth and disappeared--left her there for the nurses to care for her. My grandmother also said that when she was very young she remembered a woman coming to their house with two little boys that were younger than her that "looked just like her" and asked to take my grandmother back. Of course Mable told her to "get lost." One more important note is that we strongly believe my grandmother to have been at least 1/2 Native American, probably Navajo. (I mean, all you had to do was look at her. It was obvious.) So the other thing that came up in my mind is that it's possible that she was even sold. It is known that Mable and probably "Mr." Haynes adopted her. I believe the abandoned in the Phoenix hospital story the most. I want to know who abandoned her and why. I did have someone check some of the AZ Republic Newspapers from about that time, and they found nothing. Thanks much! Happy Hunting! Sharyl Williams SWilli0917@aol.com

In a message dated 6/20/98 1:32:08 PM, jly-pio@juno.com wrote: <<PLEASE!, Forgive him. My son answered this and misread IO for 10. This caught his attention, so he thought he would answer. Kids! <VBG> JLY-PIO@juno.com _______________>> I too thought that it said 10 years old!! Until I realized it was i-o not 1-0 LOL!!! Lisa

Hi All, I found making maps and tracking unkown ancestors for possible search locations very useful. I'll make my maps available to this "list" if you don't spread the website URL around. I have limited free access until I would pay more, so I'm trying to spread the news for these maps over the months. These maps have been created with the approval of ColorForm Terrain at John Hopkins Universtiy. The format is Acrobat PDF files that allow zoomability and has a simple text search engine to locate the county name. At the moment only the map with the McCOMBS location is posted. Some of the states have no McCOMBS info on them (ie Texas), but will be updated sometime in the near future. If you zoom into the terrain, you can see the valleys of possible migration. I suppose trails will be added also at some future time. The Map "M1835" is an 1835 map fo NY,VT,CT,MA,PA with original placename and trails. Big file at 2.5 MB but needed for zoomability. The Web Directory URL: http://www.interlog.com/~mmccombs/FTPLACE/FTPLACE.html Enjoy Murray McCombs PS let me know if Win 3.1 users are having difficulty

Hi everyone, I just wanted to let you guys know that I'm gone for a the rest of today and tomorrow. I really need to get away from this computer for a while. Since the announcement on Rootsweb Review, I have been receiving huge amounts of email. I'm not complaining. In fact, I'm overjoyed, but there comes a point in time when you need to walk away for a little while. I've come to that point. If I didn't answer your email today, I promise to get to it just as soon as I sit down to this computer again. Also, I would like to ask someone on this list who is experienced at unsubscribing procedures to please help anyone having trouble unsubscribing. I know I can count on you guys. Thank you all and smiles, Nicole

On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 23:16:01 -0600 jly-pio@juno.com writes: > >Are you saying that your mother had you when she was 10 yrs. old? >WOW!!! > PLEASE!, Forgive him. My son answered this and misread IO for 10. This caught his attention, so he thought he would answer. Kids! <VBG> JLY-PIO@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

A person does not show up in the SSDI if someone never had a SS# OR if no one reported the persons death to the correct authorities. Not if no one applied for the benefits of the dead person. Up until a certain date (and I don't know the date), it was not required by law to report a persons death to any authorities, such as the Social Security Administration. That accounts for the lack of some records of death in that aspect. Social Security numbers were not required until 1950, after which every person born had to have a SS#. A lot of persons that died in Asylums or Mental Hospitals were not reported as dying because it was not required by law. I have a great Uncle that died in an asylum (he was brain damaged after being kicked in the head by a horse) in WI. He was not listed in the SSDI because he did not have a SS# even though he died in 1972. He did, however, have a death cert in his name. Hope this clears up any confusion on that point. Cindy Johnson Nicole wrote: > > Hi all, > > If I'm not mistaken, a person does NOT show up in the SSIndex, although > dead, if no one applied for their final lump sum benefit. That happens > when either someone is still drawing off their Soc Sec (ex a wife) or > just nobody knew to apply for it. > > Please someone correct me if I have my info wrong. > > Smiles, > > Nicole > > ==== GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES Mailing List ==== > Support Rootsweb! Visit http://www.rootsweb.com ! > To contact the owner use, dwburgess@worldnet.att.net

how do I unsubscribe> Denise Gray searchca@ix.netcom.com OR DGray92237@aol.com Http://www.ix.netcom.com/~searchca Http://members.aol.com/Dgray92237 ISSR http://www.plumsite.com/ISSR Msg/Fax 562-683-2125

Hi all, If I'm not mistaken, a person does NOT show up in the SSIndex, although dead, if no one applied for their final lump sum benefit. That happens when either someone is still drawing off their Soc Sec (ex a wife) or just nobody knew to apply for it. Please someone correct me if I have my info wrong. Smiles, Nicole

Just a short note to offer some assistance to those who don't have access to the web. I will look up any names on the SSDI for you. Please send any information that you have on the person, ie. names, birth or death date, etc... I will send you a complete extract of what I find. Good luck to all! Cindy Johnson

No, the SS Admin will not give out SS#'s of person living, but you can ask them to forward on a letter to a relative that you cannot find and is still alive. Here is other information that I have in a book on the records they hold. This may not pertain completely to this list, but it may help someone find a person that is missing. I hope it helps everyone who reads it. The United States Social Security Death Index (about 1935 and forward) is available on CD-Rom in the Family History Centers and other research libraries. By entering the name of the deceased person, a searcher can learn birth and death date, place where the SS card was issued, SS number, and residence of the person at the time of death. The index, though extensive, is not complete. Getting the same kind of information directly from the SS admin. (SSA) takes more effort, but records are more complete. The application for a SS number contains such information as full name, birth date and place, and sometimes parent's names, spouse's name, employment information. Death date may be included if the number was issued in order to process survivor benefits. (This situation occirs especially in the early years of the system.) Claims filed may also contain death and survivor information. Because the form was usually completed by the applicant, parent, or spouse, it can be a reliable source of research. It may be the only available source of birth information, especially for persons born before their stated ot communities required birth registrations. Many stories circulate about how genealogists can obtain this information from the application of a deceased ancestor. In talking with the SSA reps via the toll-free number (at this writing, 1-800-772-1213), I recieved conflicting insructions that also differed from what I had seen in genealogical publications and on electronic mail. Finally, a helpful and patient lady in my local office explained what apparently is the most current proceedure. SHe irged genealogists not to write to the central SSA office in Baltimore, but to visit their nearest branch office. She explained that applications filed before 1978 were microfilmed and destroyed. The microfilm is in storage and is very time-consuming to find. The Baltimore staff has a heavy workload dealing with the current business and therefore prefers not to handle purely genealogical requests. The good news is that the files are now computerized. Local branch offices can access the nationwide information quickly. ALthough some local offices may agree to handle genealogical requests by mail, other require that appear in person. The documentation is necessary for them to release information is your ID, the ancestor's Social Security number, and whatever it takes to prove your relationship to that person, such as a series of birth certificates showing your descent from that ancestor. If the person whose record you seek is living, he or she must sign a release authorizing you to obtain the information. Social Security Administration Freedom of Information Office 4-H-8 Annex 6401 Security Blvd. Baltimore, MD. 21235 Request the Social Security Application form # SS-5 Enclose the name of the deceased person who application you need, death date (copy of death cert would be nice), residence, Social Security Number (often found on death cert.), and other pertinent information which mey help them identify the right person. Enclose $7.00 for the copy, and give the reason for the request: family history, etc... We recieved our answer in about 8 weeks. Bflyis1@aol.com wrote: > > Hello quick note to all as well as the questioner. > > The Social Security Administration does not give out SS#'s for living people > at least they are not supposed to. You don't want to know what one could do > with that info. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. > > Have you tried looking him up on the Social Securtiy Death Index? I just > tried it, didn't seem to get any listings. This is odd. You can access the > death index via ancestry.com on the web. > > I know that the armed forces will usually give you a copy of a service record > but you have to prove lineage and death of that person. > > ==== GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES Mailing List ==== > To contact the owner use, dwburgess@worldnet.att.net

Hi, I just found this list and would like to add my mystery to the list. There is possibly someone still alive that would have some information. My uncle: THOMAS LOFTON BURNETT,born Oct. 21, 1907, was reported missing at sea on July 2, 1941. This was during WWII. He was in the merchant marines and I believe they were on their way back to the states. My aunt told me that he had two silk robes in his belongings and he had promised her and her daughter, that he'd bring one home for each of them. My aunt also told me that my grandmother never gave up hope that he'd walk in the door someday. But this never happen, My father thinks he was murdered at sea, but he will never say why he thinks that. I also listed T.L. Burnett on a web page honors our service men and women. I appreciate any help or suggestions, Thank you, Kathy