I have enjoyed the Alice Martin stories and have learned a few ways to continue my own family research....if the others on the list don't like them just delets them. Georgia Gill Elkins <A HREF="http://www.calypso.com/HelpFightMultipleSclerosis/HelpFightMultipleScler osis.chtml">http://www.calypso.com/HelpFightMultipleSclerosis/HelpFightMultipl eSclerosis.chtml</A> Home page <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/jorja51/myhomepage/index.html">http://hometow n.aol.com/jorja51/myhomepage/index.html</A> Hear me, Oh Great Father, from the East to the West, from the North to the South--a Native I am. Give me the strength and the courage, the love and the desire to walk upon this earth, a relative and a friend to all that is a part of this great land. Give me eyes to see the beauty in all things and the wisdom to understand that I to may be like you. With the strength that I draw from you I can face the challenges in each new day. I hope you will look down upon me and give me your blessing to go forth in peace and to live in peace the rest of my days. Georgia Gill-Elkins 5/26/2000

----- Original Message ----- From: <GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 11:55 PM Subject: GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES-D Digest V00 #293 Some of us don't appreciate receiving 20 plus a day regarding Alice Martin. I, for one , would appreciate it if you would restrict your commentaries to private email.

i am fascinated by the alice martin story. i want to know more!!

>Hi, >Here's another site I found, same George Clark, but says wife's name was >"Sarah" with no surname . . I'm losing hope here . . . > >http://www.altlaw.com/EdBall/html/d0034/i10148.htm etc. etc. .... I found another reference to these people, but this one has "Mary Brown" as mother of Abigail Clark. Copied from http://revolution.3-cities.com/~gjansen/kitchel.htm -5 3330 4-1 m 1671/2 Milford CT Abigail CLARK b 1654 Milford CT dau "farmer" George CLARK and Mary BROWN; d 15May1727 However, if Abigail was alive when Martha was killed in 1648, then the above Abigail cannot be her. How about this Abigail Clark from http://www.athens.net/~ethelind/genealogy/mom_ahn.html. Extract: 908. William SARGENT #38320 born abt 1624, married 10 Sep 1651, Abigail CLARK #38321, born abt 1632, died 08 Mar 1711. William died 19 Feb 1717. res. Gloucester; selectman and representative 1671, 1691 909. Abigail CLARK #38321 born abt 1632, died 08 Mar 1711. Hmm ... She is probably born too early. There is another born 1641 (http://members.xoom.com/rcjack1/wga7.html), but she has the wrong parents and family. Obviously Abigail Clark/Clarke was a common name among the early Massachusetts folk. Have you seen the following? (at http://www.gendex.com/users/jast/D0007/G0000038.html) "Thanks to the website "Don Dickenson's Ancestors" from which this information was copied. "Richard Bishop of Piscataway was originally a First Settler of Duxbury, Massachusetts, where he had a son, James Bishop. He lived with Love Brewster in 1638. Richard Bishop was of Plymouth, and there he hired Nathaniel Souther on January 5, 1640-1. Among those "Able to bear arms in the Colony of New Plymouth. 1643, were Nathl Souther, George Clarke, and Richard Bushop." . Richard married Alice Clark on December 5, 1644 [possibly as his second wife]. She was the widow of George Clark, and tragically ended her life by murdering her own child, and was subsequently hung therefor, in 1648. There is a mournful account of the murder by Alice Bishop of her daughter, Martha Clarke, 4 years old, July 22, 1648 (Savage, Vol. I, page 393). She also had another daughter, Abigail Clark. There is also reference to "Damaris, (wife of the first William Sutton), daughter of Alice and Richard Bishop". When William Sutton removed to New Jersey, Bishop sold his property at Duxbury, and went to live with him. Richard Bishop was called "of Piscattaway in Artercull or New Jersey," when he sold to Capt. Benjamin Church his property in the Colony (Winsor's Duxbury, page 228.)." So there is the relocation of the family to NJ (including Richard Bishop, Alice's husband). Perhaps Abigail Clark went with them ... but then again she may have been married by then, or perhaps she died in childhood ... Ruth

Fascinating isn't it? Here's a thought. When she killed Martha, I wonder how long it had been since Alice had given birth to Damaris. An extreme manifestation of post-natal depression can include psychosis. Post-natal depression, hormone deficiencies, mental instability etc. had never been heard of in the 17th century ... but such conditions existed! Ruth

Did Richard Bishop remarry? Also remember that offspring very often suffered the sins of the parents; some may have thought that Abigail was a "bad seed" and prone to behavior such as her mother's. There's no telling what happened to her but I wish you luck in eventually finding her. Jo-Ann Stephens Bahai@netusa1.net

I am a new subscriber to the list and was wondering if someone could fill me in on excepted posting of unsolved mysteries? Thank you -----Glenda----- Reseaching=HOPPER>MS+ FENNEL/FENNELL>MS>AR+JOLLY>KY>AR+MIDDLETON>TN>AR+RANKINS/RANKIN>?>AR http://community.webtv.net/GLCALFEE/GLMIDDLETONSHOMEPAGE

I didn't see it either. Carol Daw Haul ar Fryn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lady Patricia" <paron@bendnet.com> To: <GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 12:04 AM Subject: Re: Earl Clyde Carroll > Please repost it -I never saw it. > > Lady Patricia > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "carolyn carroll" <carroll@bedford.net> > To: <GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 11:19 AM > Subject: Re: Earl Clyde Carroll > > > > I submitted information on the mysterious Earl Clyde Carroll. I never > > received it on the list. Did everyone else get it or should I repost > it??? > > > > > > > > > > ==== GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES Mailing List ==== > > To be removed from this list, send an e-mail to > Gen-Unsolved-Mysteries-L-request@rootsweb.com, with the word unsubscribe in > the body of the message. > > > > ============================== > > Search ALL of RootsWeb's mailing lists in real time. > > RootsWeb's Personalized Mailing Lists: > > http://pml.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > ==== GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES Mailing List ==== > If you have any questions or comments, please address them to annie2ws@aol.com > > ============================== > Genealogy calendars, guestbooks and more: > Visit RootsWeb's Resource Center at > http://resources.rootsweb.com/ > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.177 / Virus Database: 86 - Release Date: 8/8/00

Please repost it -I never saw it. Lady Patricia ----- Original Message ----- From: "carolyn carroll" <carroll@bedford.net> To: <GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Earl Clyde Carroll > I submitted information on the mysterious Earl Clyde Carroll. I never > received it on the list. Did everyone else get it or should I repost it??? > > > > > ==== GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES Mailing List ==== > To be removed from this list, send an e-mail to Gen-Unsolved-Mysteries-L-request@rootsweb.com, with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. > > ============================== > Search ALL of RootsWeb's mailing lists in real time. > RootsWeb's Personalized Mailing Lists: > http://pml.rootsweb.com/ >

I find the mystery interesting. My grandmother was a Martin. Lady Patricia ----- Original Message ----- From: <mondragon@mail.utexas.edu> To: <GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 8:00 AM Subject: Alice MARTIN - possible tidbit > I just found (by doing a global AltaVista search for "George Clark" (no > 'e'), and came up with the following site: > http://www.jarnot.com/gen/I0746.html > > Which lists a "George Clark" b. 1611 Milford CT, d. 1690, with no other > family member listed except one daughter, Abigail (!!), b. 1636 Milford CT, > d. 1689. > She m. an Abraham Pierson, and the person has all these lines traced. > However, no wife for George . . I wonder if the wife was our Alice MARTIN, > and after Abigail's birth, moved to Plymouth and had Martha?? I don't know > what the ages were for MY Martha and Abigail, so I don't know which was > younger. > > On the above site, you click on their names and it gives you dates and most > times a lineage chart. > > Francesca > > > > ==== GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES Mailing List ==== > Please consider becoming a Rootsweb contributor. > > ============================== > Search ALL of RootsWeb's mailing lists in real time. > RootsWeb's Personalized Mailing Lists: > http://pml.rootsweb.com/ >

Did any one every find out a source for old murder mystery magazines. Some place has to hold these old magazines- with lots of true stories. Lady Patricia ----- Original Message ----- From: <mondragon@mail.utexas.edu> To: <GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 9:50 AM Subject: Alice MARTIN, hanged for murder > I just joined also. Here is one of my Unsolved Mysteries (part *is* > "solved", but just thought I'd share in case anyone had further info). I > hope this is not a non-mystery that doesn't qualify for listing on here, > but since there were no posts, maybe this will amuse someone! > > Alice MARTIN, stepmother of Damaris BISHOP (who m. my ancestor, William > SUTTON in 1666, Eastham MA), apparently murdered one of her daughters by a > previous marriage to a George CLARK, by whom she had two daughters, Martha > and Abigail. Alice apparently murdered Martha (b. 1644) on 22 Jul 1648 > while Martha was in bed, and then was found wandering around looking for > her daughter, didn't remember killing her! > > I have copies of those court records of her trial at home, if anyone is > interested. Alice was the first person to be hung in Plymouth Colony for > her crime. > > Further Alice MARTIN mystery: > > >From someone on the SUTTON e-mail List, in 1998, I received this: > > >I have recently been reviewing my notes on Damaris [Bishop}and William Sutton > >and I thought that I would post some notes I received some years ago when I > >was looking for the parents of Alice MARTIN mother of Damaris BISHOP. Someone > >had told me she was probably the daughter of Christopher Martin of the > >"Mayflower" but I have never found anything to verify this and these letters > >also mention that nothing is known of this connection between Alice and > >Christopher Martin. Has anyone found any proof to the contrary? sincerely, > >Wendy Schmutz > > > >"Boston Public Library, 19th Sept 1991, > >I have enclosed a photocopy of notes I made over twenty years ago on the Alice > >Bishop case and, in addition, a photocopy from Eugene A. Stratton's Plymouth > >Colony: Its History and People, 1620-1691 which gives additional information. > >These notes include all the court records on the case and a reference to > >Richard Bishop in 1649. I know nothing of the parents of Alice [Martin] > >[Clark] Bishop. She is of no known relationship to Christopher Martin. signed > >Edwin Sanford, Coordinator of Social Sciences" > > > >"Old Colony Historical Society, Taunton, MA . June 13, 1991 > >Please find copies of the court records concerning Alice Bishop's murder > >trial. According to all of our standard genealogical sources, Alice Martin's > >parentage is unknown. signed, Lisa Compton, Director" > > > My connection to all this: Damaris BISHOP married my ancestor William SUTTON. > > Francesca Sutton > Austin Tx > > > > ==== GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES Mailing List ==== > Please consider becoming a Rootsweb contributor. > > ============================== > Personalized Mailing Lists: never miss a connection again. > http://pml.rootsweb.com/ > Brought to you by RootsWeb.com. >

Is there any possability she didn't do it? Suan

I never seen it either. Wil _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.

I don't remember getting it. Maybe it got lost somewhere in transit. Judy Busch ---------- : From: carolyn carroll <carroll@bedford.net> : : I submitted information on the mysterious Earl Clyde Carroll. I never : received it on the list. Did everyone else get it or should I repost it???

Was it a common practice to place young children into service of another family for vocation in the late 1600's. maybe this is what became of the daughter? Just a thought. V ----- Original Message ----- From: <mondragon@mail.utexas.edu> To: <GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 8:45 AM Subject: Alice MARTIN (error on my part) > Sorry guys - I just realized I got confused about Alice's marriages. CLARKE > was first, BISHOP second - which means that Abigail was older than Damaris, > and actually, Damaris may have been living in that house when Alice > murdered Martha. > > Arghh - sorry if I said anything that was different from the above. > > Francesca > > > > ==== GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES Mailing List ==== > Please consider becoming a Rootsweb contributor. > > ============================== > Personalized Mailing Lists: never miss a connection again. > http://pml.rootsweb.com/ > Brought to you by RootsWeb.com. > >

I submitted information on the mysterious Earl Clyde Carroll. I never received it on the list. Did everyone else get it or should I repost it???

>Forgot to give my lineage from Damaris - her son John Sutton, to his >son Rev. David Sutton, to David's dau. Elizabeth who m. Rev. Jacob >Cozad. Cool - I have them down to Mary Cozad who m. a "Mr. Coon" - I guess you have more?? Here's my lineage: Damaris, her son Richard, his son Jonas, Nathan, John, Peter, Israel Bird Sr and Israel Bird Sutton Jr (my g-father), to my father Thomas George Sutton (d. 1976), then to me, b. 1943 in Mexico. >Another mystery - who took care of Damaris after her mother died? I wish I knew; I haven't been able to find much except the scattered (and wrong) pieces I've been posting. >I have always been fascinated by the murder of Martha. >Can't imagine a mother doing this. Other than insanity, could it >have been a mercy (however misplaced) killing. Perhaps the >little girl was suffering or handicapped in some way. If so, a >mention of this in the account would have helped Don't you suppose they would have mitigated the sentence if she was trying to do something 'good'?? > >I have found some info on an Abigail Clark but have no idea if she >was the half sister of Damaris. Will try to find and post it. > Great, anything will help! Amazing to find a relative on this List - it pays to post everywhere, doesn't it?!!! Francesca

As I undstand it, George died before Alice m. Richard Bishop so this Geo. is probably not ours. Joan

I too am a descendant of Alice through her dau. Damaris Bishop Sutton. I have always been fascinated by the murder of Martha. Can't imagine a mother doing this. Other than insanity, could it have been a mercy (however misplaced) killing. Perhaps the little girl was suffering or handicapped in some way. If so, a mention of this in the account would have helped. I have found some info on an Abigail Clark but have no idea if she was the half sister of Damaris. Will try to find and post it. Forgot to give my lineage from Damaris - her son John Sutton, to his son Rev. David Sutton, to David's dau. Elizabeth who m. Rev. Jacob Cozad. Another mystery - who took care of Damaris after her mother died? Joann in Parke Co. In.

Hi, Here's another site I found, same George Clark, but says wife's name was "Sarah" with no surname . . I'm losing hope here . . . http://www.altlaw.com/EdBall/html/d0034/i10148.htm George Clark MALE BIRTH: ? [Ref#96] DEATH: BEF 10 Jun 1691 [Ref#96] NOTE : 25 Apr 1690, Will dated. [Ref#96] NOTE : 10 Jun 1691, Will probated. [Ref#96] OCCUPATION: Farmer Notes Family 1: Sarah ? ....(? ~ 1690 ) [dang!!!] 1.Abigail Clark ....(29 Jan 1653/54 ~ 15 Mar 1726/27) Milford, Connecticut, America 2.Rebecca Clark ....(ABT Feb 1645/46 ~ BEF 1693) Milford, Connecticut no Martha. . . _________________ Abigail http://www.altlaw.com/EdBall/html/d0070/i02863.htm Abigail Clark FEMALE BIRTH: 29 Jan 1653/54, Milford, Connecticut, America [Ref#119] DEATH: 15 Mar 1726/27, Killingworth, CT [Ref#96] BAPTISM: 25 Feb 1653/54, Milford, New Haven, CT [Ref#96] Father: George Clark ....(? ~ BEF 10 Jun 1691 ) Mother: Sarah ? ....(? ~ 1690 ) Family 1: Abraham Pierson , Jr. ....(1641 ~ ) P» MARRIAGE: ABT 1673 [Ref#96] _____________________________ Rebecca http://www.altlaw.com/EdBall/html/d0026/i10150.htm Rebecca Clark FEMALE BIRTH: ABT Feb 1645/46, Milford, Connecticut [Ref#96] DEATH: BEF 1693, Newark, Essex County, New Jersey, America [Ref#96] BAPTISM: Feb 1645/46, Milford, Connecticut [Ref#96] Father: George Clark ....(? ~ BEF 10 Jun 1691 ) Mother: Sarah ? ....(? ~ 1690 ) Family 1: John Brown ....(ABT 1646 ~ ) prob. England _________________________________ His notes: Ref#96: There is much confusion surrounding this family because there was another George-1 CLARK with wife Sarah (-----) who also lived in Milford, CT at the same time. The two were also about the same age. Ours was "Farmer" George CLARK, or George CLARK "Junior". The other was "Deacon" George CLARK, or George CLARK "Senior". Both wives Sarah died in 1690. Deacon George CLARK, Sr., made a will 15 Apr 1678, and a codicil 18 Aug 1688, but the will was not admitted to probate. Farmer George CLARK, Jr., made his will 25 Apr 1690, probated 10 June 1691, so they died not long apart. Both appear first in Milford in 1639, among the first settlers. Farmer George-1 CLARK, Jr., had the following children: 1. Hannah-2, bapt. 29 Nov 1640, Milford, d. after 6 Nov 1705, but before 3 Mar 1711/2; m. 6 Jun 1660, Milford (VR1:12), John-2 PLATT. 2. Ruth-2, bapt. 20 Feb 1641/2, Milford; m.(1) ca. 1662, Sgt. Thomas-2 FITCH; m.(2) ca. 1685-6, Robert PLUMB; m.(3) 3 Jul 1706, Milford, John WHEELER. 3. Sarah-2, bapt. 18 Feb 1643/4, Milford; d. 1 Feb 1716[/7] in 74th year, Lyme, CT; m.(1) 27 Nov 1663, Milford (VR1:6), Reynold-2 MARVIN; m.(2) 12 Feb 1677[/8], Lyme, CT (LR1:102), Capt. Joseph-2 SILL. 4. Rebecca-2, bapt. Feb 1645/6, Milford; d. bef. 1693, Newark, NJ; m. "Elder" John BROWN of Newark, NJ; no children. 5. Esther-2, bapt. 1 Aug 1647, Milford, d. 19 Oct 1661, Milford. 6. daughter, stillborn 12 Aug 1649, Milford. 7. Mary-2, bapt. 3 Feb 1650/1, Milford; m. 21 Dec 1673, Milford, Samuel-2 CLARK (son of Deacon George-1 CLARK, Sr.). 8. John-2, bapt. 29 Aug 1652, Milford, d. ca. 1693; unmarried. 9. Abigail-2, b. 29 Jan, bapt. 25 Feb 1653/4, Milford, d. 15 Mar 1726/7 aged 73, Killingworth, CT (g.s.); m. ca. 1673, Rev. Abraham-2 PIERSON. 10. Elizabeth-2, bapt. 27 Jan 1655/6, died young. Deacon George-1 CLARK, Sr., had the following children: 1. Thomas-2, m.(1) Hannah GIBBARD; m.(2) Grace (JUDSON) PRUDDEN. 2. Sarah-2, m. Jonathan LAW. 3. Samuel-2, m.(1) Mary-2 CLARK (dau. of Farmer George-1 CLARK, Jr.); m.(2) Sarah ----- 4. George-2 (Ensign), m.(1) Deborah GOLD; m.(2) Rebecca PHIPPEN; m.(3) Phebe (NICHOLS) KNELL. The will of Farmer George-1 CLARK, Jr., mentions brothers Daniel, John, and Edward (deceased). Daniel probably came to Milford but returned to England, the others remained in England. Their English origin is not certain, but it has been claimed that they came from Hertfordshire. Do not trust the LDS records concerning his parentage, although it may be treated as clue material. Since Farmer George-1 CLARK, Jr., had only one son, who left no children, descent from him can only be traced through his daughters. Of course, one of them married a CLARK, and so he did have CLARK grandchildren! Deacon George-1 CLARK, Sr., however, had three sons who married and had children, so his progeny by the name of CLARK are many. The best references for these families are: 1. G. C. Bryant, _Deacon George Clark and Desc._ 2. Susan Woodruff Abbott, _First Famlies of Milford, Conn._ (1976) 3. Donald Lines Jacobus, _Families of Old Fairfield_ I hope this helps. I have more on Sarah-2 (CLARK)(MARVIN) SILL and her family, and a little more about Ruth-2 (CLARK)(FITCH)(PLUMB) WHEELER. ________________________ Oh well, back to the drawing board. I'll leave you all alone now. . <grin> Francesca