In a message dated 4/2/97 5:13:09 AM, you wrote: <<In article <E7rE00.n4r@ranger.daytonoh.ncr.com>, <Unknown> says... > >Does anyone have any ideas for researching families from Pozega >and Belovar, Croatia? >How did records survive the war? Which war are you talking about? World War II or the recent Yugoslav war? Records probably survived WW II quite well, and Pozega (or Slavonska Pozega) was not affect much by the 1991 war, so records there should be OK. However, Belovar might be a different story. LDS has filmed extensively during the last few years, but for the most part these films are not yet available for loan. Furthermore, if you need 20th century records, it is quite likely that these were not microfilmed. It's my understanding that a roughly 100-year limit was placed on records for microfilming. There are several possibilities of how to proceed. If you already have contacts in Croatia, arrange for them either to go to these places themselves or find locals to do research for you. If you know the parish were your ancestors lived, write to the parish priest and ask for his help. If you ask for "obiteljska knjiga", or "family book", you may get a lot of information from parish records. If these approaches fail, and you know the family name, you might simply write to the family name in that town and see what happens. Finally, and off the subject, please include your email address in postings. Gordon McDaniel mcdaniel@hoover.stanford.edu >> Or, if everything else fails, you may want to consider hiring a professional researcher to do the work for you. My sister is a professional genealogist in Zagreb, Croatia. She currently has 2 clients who come from the Bjelovar region. Please send me your e-mail address if you would like to find out more details. Fritz Frigan frigan@aol.com

My father, born as Jozef Muntz, was born in 1886 in Nowy Zielun, Poland, an area that was under German partitioning. He had a cousin KARL MUNTZ who was in the German Navy before World War I. My grandfather's name was Adam Muntz, as was born in Poland and my grandmother was Marian TYMECKI or TIMECKIEJ. Does that ring a bell with anyone out there in cyberspace ? Thanks for reading this !! Chet

For new subscribers wondering where and how to get started in Slavic genealogy, the soc.genealogy.slavic Home Page and the FAQ, (written by Stephen Kymlicka, founder of soc.genealogy.slavic, co-owner of Gen-Slavic) is at: http://www.feefhs.org/socslav.frg-slav.html Our Home Page is part of the Web Site of the Federation of Eastern European Family History Societies at http://www.feefhs.org - a good starting point in this URL is the Ethnic, Religious and National Index. If you have forgotten where your welcome message from Gen-Slavic is filed, send the command "INFO REFCARD" to LISTSERV@MAIL.EWORLD.COM - you will receive all the commands you need to set your subscription options for situations like signing off, temporary NOMail, anything you might need if e.g., you are going to be on vacation or there has been a change in your e-mail address. Send me an e-mail if things don't seem to go right. And a reminder that GEN-SLAVIC is set not to receive MIME messages. Margaret Sheremata sherema@vax2.concordia.ca GEN-SLAVIC Listowner

Sylvia, Addresses of Lutheran (Kosciol Ewangelicko-Augsburskiego w Polsce) parishes in Poland can be found at: http://zt.krakow.tpsa.pl/~bogdanj/kosciol.html The entry for Lodz parish reads: Lodz ks. bp. Mieczysl/aw Cielar ul. Piotrkowska 283 90-457 Lodz Poland Tel (42)846672 Hope that helps. ============================================================================ Tom Wodzinski, Canberra AUSTRALIA tomwodz@pcug.org.au Policy inaction reflects and serves the interest of the contented majority that elected Government. It helps to preserve the Governments popularity and to strengthen its election prospects.

I have a copy of my grandparents marriage certificate from the church they were married in. Since it is in Latin, I can guess at some of the translation. Does "Praesentibus testibus" translate to the witnesses? Thanks in advance! Frank

Here goes, Jamie, I don't think your problem is as complicated as you fear. Here is, for what it's worth, what I think, and I have been through zillions (Well, maybe not really zillions) of passenger lists. 1. Consider first of all that the wrong entry on the name may actually be a misunderstood handwriting on your part or a missed interpretation of handwriting on a document your ancestors had with them. It really doesn't take a lot of imagination to note the following possibilities: S c h u lt z S o L a R z Very, very , very similar, and I have found most of the writing in these lists to be of this caliber. 2. I would, myself, stick with the name Solarz, if you're pretty sure that's wath it is supposed to be. It codes as S462, so you can get an soundex for New York arrivals for that period (There is one), and I'll bet you find them. You know their names, the year, and the country of origin, and that may well be suffcient to help you locate them on the list. Then you can get the actual passenger arrival records and find them there. 3. Oh yes, it should be about 99% for a New York port arrival. According to Morton-Allen most of the European departures for 1915 left from final ports of embarkation in England coming from the continent, with the exception of a few from Rotterdam. 4. If you can't find them fater looking thusly, you may want to do two other things. In fact, after considering your options you may want to do these anyway. a. You could also get the soundex for New York arrivals for the period for S243, the code for Schultz, on the slight chance that this actually was how the name was recorded. b. You could also get the soundex for the 1920 U.S. census for the area where you know your grandparents were on 1920, and locate the census that they should appear on. If you do find them, the enumerator will have asked them when they arrived in the U.S., and he will have recorded this on the report. Now it is true that sometimes errors have been made in recording this info., BUT I am here to tell you that the errors tend not to be gross in their magnitude, and are at least a good indicator USUALLY of when they arrived. Bottom line on all of this? It really sounds like you're in better than fair shape on your quest in this area, so get thee down to the nearest LDS FHC and gid tah orderin' Yee Hah! Hope this is a help. Charles ctucker@wzrd.com

My father is borned 100 km farer than Lwow. Small town called Uscie Zielone. He was deported during world war II to Germany and after a time in teh US army as a volunteer, he came to Belgium. Does someone can help to discover members of his family in States or other places. Many thanks Send me an E-mail: bodyngym@skynet.be

Dear Annie and all, I seem to be in the same boat re: Genpol. I haven't seen anything since early January. How did you check that you're still subscribed? Did the Server respond? What syntax did you use? TIA, Tom Milke in maryland BTW, since the MAISER server is so much more reliable, let's use it! ---------------------------------------------------------------- Anne Mary C. Chapirson wrote: > > In a message dated 97-03-27 00:52:51 EST, you write: > > << I'm still subscribed (I checked today) however I haven't received a GenPol > email since mid January. Not even the ones I posted ! All my subsciptions > to other Email Listserv's work OK so it's not this end. >> > > I would suggest unsubbing and doing it again, that may fix the problem. > Worked for me. > > Annie

--------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi - For DOMKAR I have "allotment holder" and "cottager" I have nothing for ZELIAR (closest thing is zelinar which means "green-grocer" -- zeli means "cabbage". Dennis Havlena Mackinac Straits northern Michigan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In a previous article, ZDHZ59A@prodigy.com (Howard Hujsa) says: >Hello All, > >I apologize for the general nature of my question, but I have had >difficulty trying to translate two words, which I believe are >descriptions, which appear in a "pedigree" I recently received from the >Archives in Bratislava, Slovakia. The words are: > >zeliar >domkar > >I would appreciate assistance from a person in the know. Thanks very >much. > > > > >- > HOWARD HUJSA ZDHZ59A@prodigy.com > > >

Hello All - My grandparents immigrated to NY from Sokolow, Poland we believe in 1915. Any hints on what would be the most likely port / country they left from? To make matters even more confusing, it seems the US immigration officials made an error entering their names, and from then on they were known as Schultz. We believe the original name to have been Solarz. So in searching passenger lists, or immigration entry papers, would we search Schultz or Solarz? Any and All suggestions, assistance is appreciated. Thanks, Jamie Searching information on Jacob Schultz (Solarz)b. circa 1880, Sokolow, Poland Sadie Gordon Schultz (Solarz) b. circa 1880, Sokolow, Poland

I'm interested in receiving information regarding the VRAB family who immigrated to the US sometime around the 1918. Any information would be appreciated. Also searching for SITARIK information. Please e-mail kabiscon@interaccess.com.

Marguerite.Czajka@ChicagoIL.NCR.COM

Hi! In some recent information I received by the Czech Archives, a number of my ancestors were "subjects of the Petrovice Estate". Does anyone have a good source for information about this estate from 1800 and before. Was there a castle at this location, who were the landowners, etc? Petrovice is in south central Czech Republic. Thanks in advance! Bob

Chet Mentz <cewkow@xtalwind.net> wrote on Monday, March 31: >I have hear conflicting reports of how many people were put to death by >the gasses as in Buchenwald, Auslitz, etc. > I know that there were may other groups, as Gypsies, Colored people, >and Polish too, as well as political dissidents too. > What is closest to the truth on the actual number of people that were >put to death ? Also, what was the actual number of Jewish people of that >total ? For many years the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust had usually been cited as 6 million, with the total of Jews and other groups murdered estimated at 12 million. Recent research out of Britain claims that the actual number of Jews who died was closer to 7 million, based upon new estimates of the number of Jews in Europe before 1939. (This was reported in the New York Times, I believe.) While I find this information intellictually interesting, it does not change my personal situation. I have still lost the same number of grandparents, aunts, uncles and first cousins as well as innumerable distant relatives and family friends. My mother still has the number tatooed on her arm that she got as a slave laborer in Auschwitz. And the horror of 7 million Jews dead as opposed to 6 million (or 13 million people vs. 12) is no different, since I will always have trouble imagining the magnitude of Nazi genocide. If you would like to find out more, I suggest you go to: http://www.nizkor.org/ http://remember.org/ or check out the newsgroup devoted to this subject: soc.culture.jewish.holocaust I have to ask though, and with all due respect, why did you post this question here? Isn't it a tad off-topic for this group? Rhonda Wenner RCMWenner@aol.com

re I have hear conflicting reports of how many people were put to death by the gasses as in Buchenwald, Auslitz, etc. I know that there were may other groups, as Gypsies, Colored people, and Polish too, as well as political dissidents too. What is closest to the truth on the actual number of people that were Adalbert Goertz responds >>>>>>>>>>>> My guess is about 4 millions. -- *************** Adalbert Goertz ****** ph 717-762-7378 ******** retired in Waynesboro PA (65 miles from Baltimore/Washington DC Mennonite genealogy of East and West Prussia prior to 1945. Wanted: house in Colorado/New Mexico/Arizona for us retirees

Revision lists in Poland? ============================ Quote from a FEEFHS posting: ------------ Does this also apply to Russian Poland (1815-1897)? Anyone familiar with these lists for Poland? Archives? >>>> REVIZSKIE SKAZKI (revision lists) Church books are not the best research source for Russian genealogy. Both archivists and researchers told me that the best place to begin research is in the revision lists. Revision lists were kept between 1719 and 1858 to support a national poll tax. They covered 95% of the population. The poll tax was announced by Peter I in 1718 and was undertaken in 1719. He instituted it in order to change the basis of taxation from households to individuals. It still took several years for the returns to come in. In the meantime Peter I died. The second revision was initiated in 1743 by Elizabeth. The third revision, 1761-1767, coincided with the ascension of Catherine II to the throne. It included females for the first time. The fourth revision (1778-1787, was the first to be conducted by the region fiscal chamber (kazionnaia palata), established in 1775 to handle income and expenses of governmental institutions, the collection of taxes, and the conduct of revisions. The fifth revision was in 1794-1808. The sixth revision was in 1811-1812. The seventh revision was in 1815-1825. The eighth revision was in 1833-1835. The ninth revision was in 1850-1852. The tenth revision was in 1857-1859. The last three revisions noted changes in families during the interim between the revisions. The tax was imposed on all male persons of the lower classes at a rate of 80 kopeks a year. Nobility, clergy, officialdom, army, and higher strata of the urban population were exempt -- about 10% in the 19th century. Separate volumes were kept for the different classes of society. * dvorianstvo -- nobility * dukhovenstvo -- clergy * kupechestvo -- merchant * meshchane -- urban dweller * krest'iane -- peasant * inorodtsy -- native peoples * kazaki -- cossaks 4) PEREPIS 1897 (1897 census) The 1897 census was the only universal census in tsarist Russia. It was conducted on January 28, in the middle of winter because this was the time when the population was least mobile. The census tabulated information on name, age, sex, relationship, social class, occupation, religion, native tongue, literacy, birthplace, military status, and disabilities. A copy was made locally and both copies were forwarded to the provincial census commission. One copy was kept by that commission and the other sent to the Central Census Bureau in St. Petersburg. The name lists of that copy have been thrown away but the statistical sheets have been kept. The local copy has survived in some regional archives. For example, the 1897 census for Ekaterinoslav is in Dnepropetrovsk. -- *************** Adalbert Goertz ****** ph 717-762-7378 ******** retired in Waynesboro PA (65 miles from Baltimore/Washington DC Mennonite genealogy of East and West Prussia prior to 1945. Wanted: house in Colorado/New Mexico/Arizona for us retirees

gidleyjs@erols.com (Jim & Sylvia Gidley) wrote: >My grandfather, Adolf B"uttner was born 14 Jun 1901 in Lodz, Poland. I >requested his birthcertificate from Lodz and it listed the birthdate >and place as well as the parents name, Hermann B"uttner & Berta, nee >Bradacz. Hermann, Berta and their children moved to Halle/Saale, >Germany before 1919. >On Adolf's military pass I found that Berta died in 1939. I wrote to >the Vital Records Office in Halle, but they couldn't help me unless I >know the exact date. I don't know when Hermann died but it must be >after 1940 since my father said there existed a baby picture of him >sitting on his grandpa's lap. My father was born in 1940. >I guess that Hermann and Berta where born in Lodz, Poland. Family >rumors are that Berta's parents were weavers in Lodz. Your rumour has good basis in fact. Lodz was a major centre for the cloth making industry in Poland. >I checked the FHC, but they only have microfilms until 1876. This is for Trinitatus (Trinity) Evangelical (Lutheran). From 1868-1876 in Russian., before that in Polish because these are actually civil records collected by the church, not church records directly. Johannes (St. John) Evangelical split from Trinity in 1884. Records are not microfilmed. >more info on his parents listed. Does anybody have an address for this >Archive, if there excists one in Lodz, or where I would have to write >to get this. I would also be happy if someone happens to have some >addresses for the Ev. Churches in Lodz, I am sure there are several. As of 1991: Parafia Ewangelico-Augsburska ul. Piotrkowska 4 m 16 90-270 Lodz, Polska I recommend you write in Polish if possible. For a free translation of your letter, check out the Translation Team at the German genealogy website: http://www.genealogy.com >I would also appreciate any other suggestion you have. Wandering Volhynians is a magazine designed to serve genealogical interests of Germans from Congress Poland and Volhynia. Check us out at: http://feefhs.org Use their internal search engine to type in "volhynia" and that will take you to our pages. We have 7 subscribers researching BUETTNER / BITTNER. Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta jfrank@cadvision.com

There were delivery problems with a couple of subscribers over the Easter weekend, I am watching those today. As for problems of a week or more, Karel, since you have already checked with your provider, try signing off temporarily and subscribe again. From here, everything seems to be coming through. Get back to me via private e-mail, one way or another - Margaret Sheremata sherema@vax2.concordia.ca GEN-SLAVIC Listowner On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Karel Kysilka wrote: > To everybody: > > For a period of more than a week it seems to me, that my connection to GENSLAVIC group is not in order. Instead of 10 - 20 messages a day I received only 2 messages for all the long period. > > Is there some problem on the server or it was simply because of Easter ? > My provider says, everything is OK with their e-mail server. > > Plse answer me through GEN-SLAVIC - not directly. > > Thanks and regards > KAREL >

Does anyone have any information on "Wojtasczyk". Any information would be helpful. I think I heard once that my ancestors came to America on the "Wessa". That's about all I know.

I have hear conflicting reports of how many people were put to death by the gasses as in Buchenwald, Auslitz, etc. I know that there were may other groups, as Gypsies, Colored people, and Polish too, as well as political dissidents too. What is closest to the truth on the actual number of people that were put to death ? Also, what was the actual number of Jewish people of that total ?