Dear Sisters, I feel very terrible about the way that this whole thread turned out. I was just very upset by what my mother in law had said and I just needed to air out my feelings. Here are my thoughts on a few things. Alot of times my husband and I will get into an argument about who knows what. And after the whole thing is over with I will wonder how some little thing could have caused such a uprising in our home. It could be the checkbook, the phone ringing during dinner for the 12 th time, or any number of things. After I have had time to think about it and cool down I will ask him why he blew up and 9 times out of 10 it had nothing to do with what the argument was even about. It usually is from some stress at work and I am just the easiest person to take it out on. I think alot of times we blame our children for alot of our stress and misery , but if we were to take a closer look we would see differently. I have learned that with all the advice you all have given me about my little angel terror that she is really no different from any other 20 month old. That gave me hope. Here is what I have come to realize. About 5 years ago my husband and I had a fight. I cried for three days in a row. I was miserable. I sat around sulking and being a real [email protected]#$!#$%@#. It was a real waste of three days. About 5 days ago my husband and I had a fight. I did not cry, I was angry with him, but not miserable. I did not have time to sulk because of my daughter, and I certainly did not have time to sit around to sulk. As a matter of fact, less than ten minutes after the fight I was laughing at something my daughter did and so was my husband. By the end of the night I don't think I even remembered we had fought about something. I think my daughter puts my life into perspective. I think she makes me realize that many people have it alot worse than we do. Look at my sister for example. I now try to live each day that I will have no regrets. I try to enjoy her and my husband even when I am not feeling like it. I don't know if society has become so material that people just don't cherish the small things anymore. I had the oppourtunity this summer to visit with an Amish family in their home in Lancaster PA. It was a very rare chance and I will probably never get to do it again. It taught me a very impotant lesson in life. One that I hope none of you will never forget. It does not matter if you make a millions dollars a year, what kind of car you drive or if you even have a car at all, or if you have a brand new dress for church or any of those things. As long as you put your family and God first he will see to it that you are happy. I now firmly believe in this. They had a what is called a generation house. In this home were both sets of grandparents, two parents, five out of eight of their married children, their wives, their children, and three of the unmarried children all living in this one home. As more family gets married and has children and as parents get older they just continue to build on to their home and add more and more rooms so that everyone can live together. They all chip in and do their chores , share cooking, and washing. They did not have much as far as material things, but they were happier than I think I have ever had a chance to experience. Maybe they know the real way that life is supposed to be. I will not apoligize to any of you for taking up so much of your time. I really needed to let out my feelings. I hope that we all kind find happiness in the simpler pleasures in life. For fear of starting another thread that might have another uproar I am afraid to ask to start this new thread. But I will anyway. What would be your happiest memory that you have had with your family. I know that going to the temple is probably at the top of everyones list, so let's make it the second happiest memory. Thanks for all you do for me. Kimmie

In a message dated 97-08-15 10:25:19 EDT, you write: << That is how this whole thing got started. >> Ah! Thank you for shedding a little light - I think this whole thing has gotten way out of hand! My goodness! have a great day! Deb

steph could not send this so I am forwarding it to all of you --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Fwd: Appalled and Who I am Date: 97-08-15 15:45:02 EDT From: Nvsteph To: Linmontoya --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Appalled and Who I am Date: 97-08-15 12:52:10 EDT From: Nvsteph To: [email protected] Sisters, I have been reading my mail today and there are so many thoughts and feeling flowing right now, I don't know where to begin. First, I'm Stephanie Stockdale. My screen name is NvSteph. I'm married 8 years (as of August 11) and my birthday is August 19. I have 5 children. Michael is my boy. He's almost 10. He's taking after me and learning to play the sax. He loves to read and his knowlege of the gospel is one that challenges mine. Allison is almost 7 and is practicing to be a beauty queen. � I can't get her out of the bathroom already. If anyone has any hints, PLEASE let me know. Elizabeth is almost 5 and is upset that she has to wait a year for Kindergarten. Jessie is 4 and loves preschool and the Emily is just 18 months and has been in nursery for 2 weeks and loves it! I'm currently serving as Primary Choirister and love it. I've always been behind the piano so this has been a stretch for me. But I love it. I grew up in Southern California but now live in St. Louis, Missouri and will never go back. I love it here. Now. If you're still reading, I have something to say! This whole thing about children is terrible. It is being treated to one extreme to another. There can be middle ground here that we all can meet on. I got pregnant with my Michael when I was 16. Needless to say, my folks weren't happy. Being brought up in the church this didn't go over really good. I never once considered an abortion, though it was the popular thing to do at the time. My mom was dead-set on adoption, but being the strong spirit I am, I fought her up until the last day! On Dec 7, 1987, my angel was born. He has brought so much joy into my life I can't imagine him not being with me. At three, he knew the story of Abinidi so well that during the LA riots, he repremanded my 17 year old Brother in law when they wanted to go "Blow away all the fools." He has always been my little missionary and continues to be. The past few weeks have been extremely trying on me. Money has been really tight for us, I've been sick, my daughter has been sick, every possible unexpected expense that can pop up has, school started and so we had to get all the supplies and clothes, this has all been quite a bit for me to handle. Almost too much. Yes, I know that life would be easier without the kids. I'd have freedom, not nearly the money problems, I wouldn't feel all the stress. And Satan has been pushing all this stuff on me during this time. He's worked on my pride, my faith, and everything else he could think of. Quite a bit lately, All I could think was that "I need to get away!" Not forever, but just for a while. But when I feel the lowest, Miss Emily comes in and shows me a picture of Winnie the Pooh, of Liz comes in for a kiss. I can't imagine not having them here every day. But at the same time, I know that there are women out there who shouldn't have become mothers and did. My niece is better to be in daycare 12-16 hours a day than to be at home. Almost everyone I talk to, there has been some form of verbal or emotional abuse growing up. If this is not taken care of, then it is passed on to their children. With the drug usages and neglect going on in some homes today, I applaude women who feel that they are not able to do this and so they don't. Why bring another unwanted child into this world? Only the child will suffer. I'm not going to go into Diane's situation because I was not there. I don't know what the circumstances were, therefore, I have no place to speak. But I know that it is a choice. And I love the children I have. Thanks for listening. Steph PS. Sorry about the length.

The Story of the Rose God created the rose for Women It represent beauty. Its petals represent soft skin. Its leaves represent outstretched arms always loving and giving. Its stem represents strength. I give this rose to you, (imagine it) for you are special to me. Each time you look at the rose remember... YOU are SOMEBODY. God did not take the time to make a nobody.

i am not leaving as yet but kids are a blessing from god no matter who they are or what they have become love one another as you have love Christ pam

PLEASE PEOPLE SAY YOUR THOUGHTS TO ONLY THE PERSON YOU ARE RESPONDING TO I AM SICK OF HEARING US TALK LIKE THIS. I TOO WANT TO QUIT THE GROUP. 2REASONS 1 WAY TO MUCH MAIL 2 I DONT LIKE THE WAY WE TALK TO EACH OTHER I AM SORRY IF I HAVE SAID ANYTHING WRONG OR BAD TO ANY ONE IF I DID I WAS WAY WRONG. I KNOW THE LORD DONT WANT ME TO DO IT SOOO I AM SO SORRY I LOVE YA ALL PAM

When I read the first part of your letter I knew some how it was you...I too have lived a very very similar life...my father and step father sexually molested me and physically too...so I KNOW the deep pain within that you feel...and I do agree whole heartedly that we should not judge others...I try very hard not to and accept people for who they are... I'm huring so much right now I just don't know what to do...my husband and I have decided that we are getting a divorce...and boy does it hurt...but we just can't live together any more...we do nothing but fight...we can be friends...but both of us are no long and haven't been in love with each other for a very long time...my heart aches to the very deepest part of my soul...but I know that this is probably the right thing to do... I'm sorry to see you go out of the group and deeply saddened that that one sister feels the way she does... I think you are a wonderful person...and I know that we could relate to each other very well...we know each others pain...I didn't live in the same conditions you did but the abuse is the same... I've asked those very questions myself...why me...why did this have to happen to me... I hope that you would still like to correspond... I better be going now... Kim

one word to describe what happened......STRESS! lol thanks for being so understanding! andrea, MaknHistry

Sisters, I have been reading my mail today and there are so many thoughts and feeling flowing right now, I don't know where to begin. First, I'm Stephanie Stockdale. My screen name is NvSteph. I'm married 8 years (as of August 11) and my birthday is August 19. I have 5 children. Michael is my boy. He's almost 10. He's taking after me and learning to play the sax. He loves to read and his knowlege of the gospel is one that challenges mine. Allison is almost 7 and is practicing to be a beauty queen. � I can't get her out of the bathroom already. If anyone has any hints, PLEASE let me know. Elizabeth is almost 5 and is upset that she has to wait a year for Kindergarten. Jessie is 4 and loves preschool and the Emily is just 18 months and has been in nursery for 2 weeks and loves it! I'm currently serving as Primary Choirister and love it. I've always been behind the piano so this has been a stretch for me. But I love it. I grew up in Southern California but now live in St. Louis, Missouri and will never go back. I love it here. Now. If you're still reading, I have something to say! This whole thing about children is terrible. It is being treated to one extreme to another. There can be middle ground here that we all can meet on. I got pregnant with my Michael when I was 16. Needless to say, my folks weren't happy. Being brought up in the church this didn't go over really good. I never once considered an abortion, though it was the popular thing to do at the time. My mom was dead-set on adoption, but being the strong spirit I am, I fought her up until the last day! On Dec 7, 1987, my angel was born. He has brought so much joy into my life I can't imagine him not being with me. At three, he knew the story of Abinidi so well that during the LA riots, he repremanded my 17 year old Brother in law when they wanted to go "Blow away all the fools." He has always been my little missionary and continues to be. The past few weeks have been extremely trying on me. Money has been really tight for us, I've been sick, my daughter has been sick, every possible unexpected expense that can pop up has, school started and so we had to get all the supplies and clothes, this has all been quite a bit for me to handle. Almost too much. Yes, I know that life would be easier without the kids. I'd have freedom, not nearly the money problems, I wouldn't feel all the stress. And Satan has been pushing all this stuff on me during this time. He's worked on my pride, my faith, and everything else he could think of. Quite a bit lately, All I could think was that "I need to get away!" Not forever, but just for a while. But when I feel the lowest, Miss Emily comes in and shows me a picture of Winnie the Pooh, of Liz comes in for a kiss. I can't imagine not having them here every day. But at the same time, I know that there are women out there who shouldn't have become mothers and did. My niece is better to be in daycare 12-16 hours a day than to be at home. Almost everyone I talk to, there has been some form of verbal or emotional abuse growing up. If this is not taken care of, then it is passed on to their children. With the drug usages and neglect going on in some homes today, I applaude women who feel that they are not able to do this and so they don't. Why bring another unwanted child into this world? Only the child will suffer. I'm not going to go into Diane's situation because I was not there. I don't know what the circumstances were, therefore, I have no place to speak. But I know that it is a choice. And I love the children I have. Thanks for listening. Steph PS. Sorry about the length.

Sisters, I can't say that I am a pro at moving but I have done it many times. I have found that it pays to get dish barrel boxes from U-Haul for my dishes. I have never had one of my dishes break yet, knock on wood. Two years ago, we moved from UT to GA and we found a company called Money Savers, which was a lot cheaper than renting a U-Haul. They contracting with a company called ABF and we loaded the truck up and we had to unpack it, but they drove it for us. So, we were together in the same car when we moved cross country. I was really dreading driving separately cross country. Good luck on your move. And I do suggest that you let your bishop know. When we arrived in GA the elder's quorum came and helped us move in. They really made us feel welcomed. Stacy ---------- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: moving > Date: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 11:44 PM > > Sisters, > My family and I are moving to Houston at the end of September. Could > anyone offer any suggestions on packing, what should I take what should I > not? What moving vans are the cheapest, how to get discounts on them? How to > make more money on your garage sale? How to keep sane through it all? And > most important how to explain to your young(4 & 2) children that you are > moving. Do I tell my Bishop where we are moving? Am I going to get help from > the members of my new ward? Boy lots of questions. Please help me. I am very > excited about moving, but we have never moved more than a mile or two since > we have been married and been members. Thanks in advance to all those that > answert some o my silly questions. Hope all has a great day!!! > > Love, > Mylinda > [email protected] > P.S.----Can't live with out aol, probally be the first thing hooked up. LOL >

HOW TO BE A GOOD WIFE The following is from a 1950's Home Economics textbook intended for the High School girls, teaching how to prepare for married life. 1. Have dinner ready: Plan ahead, even the night before, to have a delicious meal - on time. This is a way of letting him know that you have been thinking about him, and are concerned about his needs. Most men are hungry when they come home and the prospects of a good meal are part of the warm welcome needed. 2. Prepare yourself: Take 15 minutes to rest so you will be refreshed when he arrives. Touch up your make-up, put a ribbon in your hair and be fresh looking. He has just been with a lot of work-weary people. Be a little gay and a little more interesting. His boring day may need a lift. 3. Clear away the clutter. Make one last trip through the main part of the house just before your husband arrives, gathering up school books, toys, paper, etc. Then run a dust cloth over the tables. Your husband will feel he has reached a haven of rest and order, and it will give you a lift too. 4. Prepare the children: Take a few minutes to wash the children's hands and faces if they are small, comb their hair, and if necessary, change their clothes. They are little treasures and he would like to see them playing the part. 5. Minimize the noise: At the time of his arrival, eliminate all noise of washer, dryer, dishwasher, or vacuum. Try to encourage the children to be quiet. Be happy to see him. Greet him with a warm smile and be glad to see him. 6. Some DON'TS: Don't greet him with problems or complaints. Don't complain if he's late for dinner. Count this as minor compared with what he might have gone through that day. 7. Make him comfortable: Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or suggest he lie down in the bedroom. Have a cool or warm drink ready for him. Arrange his pillow and offer to take off his shoes. Speak in a low, soft, soothing and pleasant voice. Allow him to relax and unwind. 8. Listen to him: You may have a dozen things to tell him, but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first. 9. Make the evening his: Never complain if he does not take you out to dinner or to other places of entertainment; instead try to understand his world of strain and pressure and his need to be home and relax. 10. The Goal: Try to make your home a place of peace and order where your husband can relax. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- FORGET THIS VERSION............ Now the updated version for the '90s woman: 1. Have dinner ready: Make reservations ahead of time. If your day becomes too hectic just leave him a voice mail message regarding where you'd like to eat and at what time. This lets him know that your day has been rotten and gives him an opportunity to change your mood. 2. Prepare yourself: A quick stop at the "LANCOME" counter on your way home will do wonders for your outlook and will keep you from becoming irritated every time he belches at the table. (Don't forget to use his credit card!) 3. Clear away the clutter: Call the housekeeper and let her know you'll need her for an extra day this week. Tell her that any miscellaneous items left on the floor by the children can be placed in the Goodwill box in the garage. 4. Prepare the children: Drop them off at Grandma's! 5. Minimize the noise: When he arrives at home remind him that the washer and garbage disposal are still not working properly and the noise is driving you crazy (but do this in a nice way and greet him with a warm smile...this way he might fix it faster). 6. Some DON'TS: Don't greet him with problems and complaints. Let him speak first, and then your complaints will get more attention and remain fresh in his mind throughout dinner. Don't complain if he's late for dinner. Simply remind him that the last one home does the cooking and the cleanup. 7. Make him comfortable: Remind him where he can find a warm fuzzy blanket if he's cold. This will really show you care. 8. Listen to him: But don't ever let him get the last word. 9. Make the evening his: a chance to get the washer and garbage disposal fixed. 10. The Goal: To try to keep things amicable without reminding him that you make more money than he does.

yes my Mom knows and yes she and I had much to deal with, & yes he has done all that is required of him by the church and his heavenly father to set things in order. Again, it took me time and I think he still suffers from his choices. But I have enough things on my own list to worry about everyone elses sins. I can only hope that Heavenly Father does not give up on me as so many people do to each other Lois

Sisters, No more replies. You are just making htings worse. Just STOP IT!!! Everyone has their own opinions. No more replies, not even to my letter. JUST STOP IT!!!!! Love all of you---and esp. you ONEREDLDS and AZ DEE, Mylinda

beautiful letter ...thankyou

AK Someone started this thread by saying in a magazine someone had printed a survey that said most people are happy they did not have kids and if they did have kids they said they would be happier without them. It was not a survey of our little group. That is how this whole thing got started. Kim (KimbrlyDwn)

Wonderful letter Sonya. I am so sorry AZDEE and ONEREDLDS1 are leaving the group. Maybe if we all try we can get them to stay. I am so sorry if I offended anyone with my letter. That was not my intent. If I have offended anyone, please let me know and I will apologize and try to correct it. Let us remember though, as our group continues to grow, we are the only contact many of us have with the church. Let us work towards continuing to have love and compassion within our group. Everything has been wonderful up to now (thanks to Faith and all those who work so hard to keep it up), and I am sure as we work through this we can again, have peace and love in our group. Love, Kim (KimbrlyDwn)

Deb, Thanks so much for the information, I really appreciate. Now I have a place to start. Love, Kim (KimbrlyDwn)

It is apalling but not surprising. It seems like so many people can only enjoy life and be happy if it is easy. Children certainly aren't easy! But they are joyful! When my children were young (4, 3, 2yrs., & 2 mos) I had three in diapers and I washed them myself for quite a while. That certainly wasn't easy. My youngest was born with arthrogryposis and will always be in an electric wheelchair and need physical help. This isn't easy but I wouldn't be happier without him. My children are teenagers now (20, 19, 18 & 16) and they still aren't easy even though two of them no longer live at home. The years between 14 and 19 seem to be the most insane. Having difficult times can pull a marriage apart or it can pull it together and teenagers have been known to do both. Thankfully, my husband and I were pulled together even though it wasn't easy. We look forward to the time when we can do things more often as a couple but who could possibly not miss the times when all the family lived under the same roof and all the shared memories? We have gone through bad times and horrible times, we've also been through good and wonderful times. How can you get rid of the challenges and still hold onto the good? Even though there have been times when I wanted to give up and run away from responsibility I'm am thankful beyond words for the blessing of being a mother. I look forward to the joy of being a grandmother and holding the children of my children in my arms. Hopefully it isn't to many years in the future. I'm a newcomer into this group and am enjoying it very much. I wonder if anyone can answer this question. When I lived in California the bishop of the ward had a poster on his office wall that said "We are not Human Beings having a spiritual experience, we are Spiritual Beings having a human experience." I realy love this! Does anybody know where it came from and/or who said it? Thanks. Candye (CandaceAnn)

Cheri-thanks for the kind words! LeeAnn

Onered-- I forgive you for not having enough tact to attack all the sisters in private. You must be a very unhappy, lonely person and I really do feel sorry for you. I will pray for you--for you will have more to answer for than I will for not being strong enough to keep Casey. You have judged and found guilty not just me. God Help you. I am getting out of this mailing list for the main reason that contention is of the devil=(you figure out where that leaves you) as I said I forgive you and pray for your soul. You have a very hardened heart. Dianne