I am replying to the following message from Cynthia who wrote to Dutch- Colonies on 10/14/99 regarding: > Gysbert "Elbertsen" Uyt den Bogaert Thank you so much for your immediate response and for the list from, "The Bogart Family . . . " book. Where on the list that you just sent is the man above that I was asking about? I spent yesterday composing this letter on the same topic, so I have updated in light of your E-mail this morning. In an earlier message from Cynthia on the same subject, Cynthia wrote: >Page 13 of "The Bogart Family: Tunis Gysbert Bogaert > and His Descendants" by J. A. Bogart (1959) > has a small paragraph on this Jacob Uyt Den Bogaert. >Other than briefing what is already in the will, it says, >"This pioneer was also said to have come from Cadzand >and may in some way have been related to Gysbert Elbertsen >Uyt den Bogaert, although nothing further concerning him >or his brother has ever been found. I am SO EXCITED about this quote as it gives me further insight into Gysbert, even listing his patronymic, "Elbertsen". This is info never before gleaned. Does the book tell more about Gysbert? Any more about his father, Elbert, and his mother? His wife? I see on the list you sent above that you say Tunis Gysbert Bogaert was born in Heykoop. Is that the Netherlands? And I see that although the book indicates there was more than one early Gysbert Uyt Den Bogaert (which was one of my questions) I do not see either of the Gysbert Uyten Bogaardts listed below mentioned on your list am thinking that there were two early men who used Uyten Bogaardt (and additional variations of spelling) as their last name. I do not see ANY Uyten Bogaardts on the list that you sent this morning. It is only that you used this name yesterday: >Gysbert "Elbertsen" Uyt den Bogaert I don't know if the Gysberts below were separate families, a second marriage for the same man, a father and son, or simply a not-related-coincidence, and I am wondering if anything that you or anyone else has read would, (1) Substantiate or disprove my theory that these were at least two separate Gysberts [UYTEN BOGAARDT] ; and (2) If you can tell me which one was Gysbert Elbertsen (Who did he marry? Who were his children, etc.? ), and also (3) If "MY" Abigail UYTEN BOGAARDT fits into either one of their families and (4) if not, who was her father, family, heritage, etc.? I am following this Gysbert line because I think that it might be connected with MY QUEST, to find the ancestors of ABIGAIL UYTEN BOGAARDT. (I want to insert a little "disclaimer" right here, I am keeping in mind a sage comment that Cynthia made in a discussion we were having in July. She said, >" I still think somehow the "Uyten" was placed in front >of Bogart by a steadfast Dutch transcriber way, way >back." and > "Even within the families I have noticed children spelling > their surname differently than the father which certainly > makes it harder" So, we may not find Abigail listed as a Uytenbogaart, even though THAT IS THE SPELLING of her name at the time of her marriage. (She is listed as Abigail "WYTENBOGART" in the LDS IGI with an "about birth date" of 1676) I will accept as a possibility any Abigail whose name remotely resembles some kind of Bogart. Abigail Uyten Bogaart married abt 1671, in the Albany NY area, Abraham Isaacse VERPLANK (b. 1651) and had with him as many as 10 children between 1672 and 1698. Please bear the above questions in mind as you read.) Back to Gysbert: Gysbert #1 in the Catskill area: Kelsey Jones <montrose, montrose@ptdprolog.net> wrote (9/21/98) that >Gysbert Uytden Bogaert occupied a farm at Coxsackie, >New York before it was leased for six years (1675-1681) >to Mathys Coenradtsen Houghtaling. [He then purchased] > a [large] tract of land [what is now Catskill] from the > Indians 26 June 1684. >He and his is wife Mary Jochims conveyed the property to >his stepson or son-in-law, Helmer Janse (believed to be >Helmer Janse Joralemon). . . . [Would this have been Mary's second marriage then? Does anyone know who she was?] Gysbert's and Mary's children are named in the reference below and include an Abigail, who married a William Turner. Kelsey continues: > John A. Bogart in, "The Seven Bogert (sic.) - Bogart Families in > Canada Whose Ancestors Were Among the Early Dutch > Settlers of New Netherland", states on page 83 that, > "According to the late Richard Schermerhorn Jr., an > accredited genealogist of Dutch pioneer families, he > (Gysbert Bogart) had > Cornelius, > Abigail, > Johannes and > Tysje (sic.) [prob m. Jan Decker] whose records are now > well established." He goes on to say that this Helmer shows up at the baptisms of some of Abigail's children (between 1703-1711), adding to the evidence that the Abigail BOGART that married William Turner was actually the daughter of Gysbert and Mary (Jochims/Jochemse) UYTENBOGAART. (Gysbert #1) I think that the Abigail UYTENBOGAART who married Isaac Abrahamse VERPLANK is probably separate person. I have thought that perhaps she was a contemporary and perhaps even a relation of Gysbert #1, as they are in the same area at the same time. However, she does not use this name, Gysbert, for any of her children. (She names 3 children Jacob. CAN ANYONE CONNECT HER TO A JACOB BOGART?) Gysbert # 2 There is also, seemingly, a second Gysbert UYTENBOGAART. This one is listed in the LDS Ancestral File as: Gijsbert UIJTTENBOGART (sic.) (AFN:KFZJ-ZN) Born:  < 1641 Place:<Dutch Ref Ch, New York,NY Who married: Willemptje CLAES (also KLAAS) (AFN: KFZK-0S) Born:  < 1645<Dutch Ref Ch, New York, NY> (I doubt these dates and places if this is our immigrant; conversely I doubt this is our immigrant if the dates and places are correct.) Their daughter Neeltje UYTTENBOGART (AFN:BPVS-PD) Born:  13 Apr 1667 Place:  Mispot Kill Christened:  13 Apr 1667 Place:  Dutch Ref Ch, New York, NY Died:  2 Oct 1731 married Isaac STOUTENBURG Marriage:  2 Jul 1690 (now New York)', New Amsterdam, N-yrk, 'New York Source: LDS IGI Film Number: 537552 *** I believe that Gysbert # 2 & Willemptje also had a Son, DIRK, who is not found in LDS records, but who has Willemptje KLAAS, wife of Gysbert UYTENBOGAART and an Isaac Stoutenburg [probably the husband of NEELTIE above] present as witnesses to the baptism of his first son, Gysbert. Vis. €1699 Sep 24; Dirk Uytenboogert, Lysbeth Eckeson; Gysbert; Isaac Stoutenburg, Willemptje Klaas wife of Gysbert Uytenbogert (This entry is supposed to have been from the Reformed Dutch Church, Schoharie, N.Y. According to Robert L. Billard, billard@idt.net, who sent them. (I sent 2 further baptisms of Dirk's and Lysbeth children yesterday.) *** I will appreciate any insight that anyone can provide. Thank you, Carma ***** CC: to GEN-NYS-L@rootsweb.com & Nance Golden, <"nance golden" ngolden@abq.com> NYALBANY-L@rootsweb.com. Roots-L@rootsweb.com If you are reading this at the last address, please reply to me personally. Thanks, Carma