I just read your post ETM and I agree with you. I looked at the link that you gave and yes Ma'm it was clearly there and I used the trusty CTL+ to read it easier... I remember when the list was filled with new links and new databases to try and when step by steps were posted.. I loved the HINTS. Some of them were in the HOWTOS which i tried each and every time so that I could learn. It used to be that I could spend nearly a morning on self teaching by using each link that was posted on this list by using my own names and places. Now I hardly spend any time because there are seldom new links or avenues posted. I dont know why this is! No one really asks questions and it seems when they are asked that they go unanswered. I suspect they are answered off list. That does me no good. It does the list no good. In this last post, a request was made for something but the steps required to get to the very information were also outlined by the requester themselves. I didnt understand it at all. In the last week, my inbox has been filled with ME TO on the app that Les has offered. That does me no good either. If people wanted to get info from Les, then his email address is there on his post, Write to him directly. Dont fill up my inbox or the archives of the list. I just recently got out of the dialup mode. If i was still in dialup, those ME TOS would have wasted my day! It is all uncalled for. I wish we would all go back to the time of real teaching. real questions, real news - edited please- and get past this ebook business unless it pertains to genealogy. Gee, there are GOOGLE books that can be loaded too but because the means to read them is KINDLE or NOOK means that all else is worthless? No I dont think so, but one wouldnt be able to gather that from the list of late. I would like to get past the feeding of the fish and more of the learn to fish mode. I wish some of the old timers were here with their hints. A Shirley used to post. And Joe's Angels used to post and people would actually resurrect posts from the archives to help others. I think that people dont know how to use the archives, thinking it is easier just to ask on the list. That is not helpful! I used to hear about brick walls that tumbled. When was the last time we heard of a crushed heap of bricks? I caught a hint (a little wee hint) of real research from a few during relaxed time but it was so fleeting and no one joined in that I wonder how many people there really are on the list. I am sure there are a lot and I think there are some real helpers but they are silent and I suspect they are frustrated by the lack of genuine interest in learning. I also read people asking for baby steps as if they are fresh and new to this GN. Some of these people have been on here far longer than me ad I have been here since 2008 - Lurking and learning. I am hopeful that people will make the list work again and those who have been spoiled with the answers learn to do some research for themselves. Their research will go faster, they will garner more info and their family history will be more encompassing. Going back to lurking for another 4 years. On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 6:59 PM, ETM <etm1935@gmail.com> wrote: Someone behind list was very nice and took Max right to the name. Fact is it was my intention to make Max expand that page herself and find her relative. Max won again and was helped right to the final spot. Did anyone here read this thread and learn anything from it or will all of you also have to ask for help should the same thing come up in your research? How many people here use a browser they like and google as a search engine? Do you want to explain why to the other subscribers and do the other subscribers want to sit and read and ask questions if they don't understand? This is a teaching list. It helps, but teaching is far more important than helping people avoid doing their own research. Elaine