On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 5:07:13 PM UTC-7, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: > John, > > Thanks for your insight. I cannot find reference to Roger Kelke as a knight. the Tirwhit and Kelke families seem to have a close relationship given the number of times they appear together in records both in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. > > There seems to be manors of Great Kelk and Little Kelk found in Yorkshire. If search Kelke in the Discovery archives a number of results referring to it will show up. > > Jordan. > > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 7:08:57 PM UTC-4, John Higgins wrote: > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 1:23:19 PM UTC-7, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: > > > Joe, > > > > > > In "Notices and remains of the family of Tyrwhitt..." by Robert Philip Tyrwhitt there is proof offered that Roger Kelke was the father of Alice Kelke who married Robert Triwhit. Monuments in Barnetby Church are described relating to them. > > > > > > See pages 12-13 in the text and footnote 4. > > > > > > https://books.google.ca/books?id=UGYBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=kelke+tyrwhitt&source=bl&ots=-WSvNRZdeq&sig=TAHqbs0XAbGTtzOgFS4zDK8phf4&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=kelke%20tyrwhitt&f=false > > > > > > > > > Jordan. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:09:00 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote: > > > > According to the pedigrees in Lincolnshire there seem to be a number of known Roger Kelkes, and no doubt a few unknown ones. Even more so for William It will be.difficult with the current Information to even try to form a sketch of a tree that is anything more than really rough guesses. > > > > > > > > Are we even certain that Roger Tirwhit's father in law was indeed need Roger? > > > > Actually this source states that Roger Kelke was the father of Alice Kelke who married Robert Tyrwhit, but it doesn't provide proof of that statement. Footnote 4 mentioned above states that "Monuments of the Kelkes, of as late a date as 1655, remain in Barnetby Church", but there's no mention of a Roger specifically. > > > > Aside from this source and the reference to "Sir Roger Kelke of Kelke, Yorkshire" in the Tyrwhit pedigree in "Lincolnshire Pedigrees", is there any evidence that this Roger (if he existed) was actually a knight? And is there a place in Yorkshire called Kelke? I can't readily find one. > > > > Perhaps the Tyrwhit pedigree, which seems to be the source for subsequent mentions of this relationship, should have said that Alice was "sister of Roger" rather than "daughter of Sir Roger". I don't disagree that the Tyrwhit and Kelke families had a close relationship - including quite possibly the marriage of a Kelke daughter to Robert Tyrwhit the justice. However, the Tyrwhit and Kelke pedigrees in "Lincolnshire Pedigrees" disagree as to the identification of this daughter. The Tyrwhit pedigree says she was Anne, dau. of SIR Roger Kelke of Kelke, while the Kelke pedigree says she was Isabell, sister of Roger Kelke of Barnetby. All the usual accounts of the Tyrwhit family - including HOP, ODNB, and the 1862 book by Robert Philip Tyrwhitt cited earlier in this thread - appear to have relied solely on the Tyrwhit pedigree while overlooking the Kelke pedigree. However I think the Kelke pedigree offers a solution which is chronologically satisfactory without having to search for a Sir Roger Kelke. Perhaps it's time to recognize that the accounts of the Tyrwhit family are simply wrong in this regard.