On 2/06/2017 9:58 PM, Peter Stewart wrote: > > > On 2/06/2017 6:56 PM, Doug Thompson wrote: >> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 11:00:29 PM UTC+1, Peter Stewart wrote: >>> On 2/06/2017 5:56 AM, Doug Thompson wrote: >>>> I know this is adding another possible layer of confusion but - >>>> >>>> What if, during Wm de Braose's custody of Elmley he married Berta >>>> to the heir. That would have been William, Walter's older brother >>>> who died in 1211. The Tebury jurors may then have had a correct >>>> descent of the land from William to Walter etc. but, since it was >>>> before their own lifetimes, made an assumption that the William was >>>> Walter's father rather than his brother! >>>> >>>> Since this is the only evidence for a Braose Beachamp marriage at >>>> all, the small error may have caused us all this confusion. It >>>> would seem to fit the time scales better than a marriage to the >>>> father, who seems to have had a wife called Amice according to many. >>> The younger William de Beauchamp (brother of Walter) is said to have >>> married Jeanne de Saint-Valery and to have died at around 20 years of >>> age. Can you let us know if you think this is incorrect, and what the >>> evidence is? >>> >>> Peter Stewart >> I have seen Joan de St Valery married to two different Williams in >> the pedigree but not this one before! I thought she was invented as a >> device to explain the Beachamp possession of the Tetbury lands, which >> Bertha's marriage does better. >> >> Is there any evidence at all for the existence of this Joan de St >> Valery? > > I was hoping you would answer this - I have no idea. There is an > article on the St Valery family by Herbert Fowler in *The > Genealogist*, new series 30 (1914) pp 1-16 & table, but unfortunately > Internet Archive is having pathway troubles and can't be accessed > (from Australia anyway) at present, so I can't find out if Joan is > mentioned there. I got there through a proxy server, and she is not mentioned by Fowler - a fairly good indication that she probably didn't exist. Peter Stewart