On 2/06/2017 4:16 AM, Paulo Canedo wrote: > Dear followers of the newsgroup as you may know Oberto I of Italy was ancestor of the Italian House of Este he is said by the chronicles to be the son of a so called Margrave Adalbert who probably possessed the march of Milan that compressed Lombardy and part of Liguria. This so called Malgrave Adalbert is of uncertain ancestry although you can find it quite widespread that he was probably a son of Guido of Lucca and Marozia. According to the Italian Wikipedia this theory originated with the book Gli Estensi of Luciano Chiappini. This book seems to be a very good source about the House of Este. This particular connection is very interesting because if correct it would make the House of Este male-line descendants of Bertha of Lorraine who was herself male-line great-great-granddaughter of Charlemagne providing the House of Este with a descent of Charlemagne with only ONE female generation. I'm wondering however what are the reasons of the theory that Adalberto was son of Gu! ido. Can anyone in this newsgroup with the book report them please. Also, > comments are welcome. There is an enormous literature on this subject, and Chiappini's contribution is not usually taken as very persuasive. More plausible is Alessandro Pallavicino's suggestion (in 2005), that Oberto was probably descended from the family of the gastalds of Sorano. There is not enough evidence from Oberto's patrimony and his first appearance (as a count) in April 945 to pin down his origin. Peter Stewart