Another interesting tidbit found in one of the fines mentioned above is that there is reference to William Kelke, the elder and Margaret his wife, and in the same fine reference to William Kelke, the younger and his wife Isabel. The fine is dated 25 June 1406, making the elder William Kelke married to Margaret a possibility as the William Kelke who was the son of Roger Kelke married to _____ Leyburne. If William Kelke the elder is this same William Kelke son of Roger, would that possibly make Margaret the wife mentioned the daughter of John Barnetby? http://medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_144_152.shtml#17 http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/CP25%281%29/CP25%281%29no144/IMG_2695.htm CP 25/1/144/152, number 18. Link: Image of document at AALT County: Lincolnshire. Place: Westminster. Date: The day after St John the Baptist, 7 Henry [IV] [25 June 1406]. Parties: William Kelk the elder and Margaret, his wife, querents, and John Kydale and John Grene of Benyngworth', deforciants. Property: 4 messuages, 16 bovates and 60 acres of land and 60 acres of meadow in Gunwardby, Louthburgh' and Bynbroke. Action: Plea of covenant. Agreement: William and Margaret have acknowledged the tenements to be the right of John Kydale, as those which the same John and John Grene have of their gift. For this: John and John have granted to William and Margaret the tenements and have rendered them to them in the court, to hold to William and Margaret, of the chief lords for the lives of William and Margaret. And after the decease of William and Margaret the tenements shall remain to William Kelk the younger and Isabel, his wife, and the heirs of their bodies, to hold of the chief lords for ever. In default of such heirs, remainder to the right heirs of Margaret. Standardised forms of names. (These are tentative suggestions, intended only as a finding aid.) Persons: William Kelk, Margaret Kelk, John Kiddall, John Green, Isabel Kelk Places: Benniworth, Gonerby, Ludborough, Binbrook Any insight would be welcome and appreciated. Jordan. On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 11:14:06 PM UTC-4, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: > Good day, > > I have a question about Roger Kelke who was father to Alice Kelke (wife of Robert Tirwhit) that I was hoping someone would be able to answer. > Is this Roger Kelke the same person as the Roger Kelke who married ______ Leyburne (daughter of Henry Leyburne) and had a son William Kelke? > > They seem as though they would be the same age. There are also a number of fines where the Tirwhit's and the Kelke's are found together from around the same period. > > http://medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/search.php?s=1&surname=kelke&given=&place=&after=&before=&county=&finecase=&finefile=&finenumber= > > CP 25/1/144/150, number 5: (1395) > Persons: William Kelke; Robert Tirwhit'; Nicholas Tournay; Thomas Ruston'; Joan > Places: Magna Stepyng'; Frisby [Lincolnshire] > > CP 25/1/144/151, number 33: (1401) > Persons: William Kelke; Richard Tirwhit; Robert Tirwhit; Walter de Flynton'; Thomas la Warre > Places: Barnetby; Ketilby; Netilton' [Lincolnshire] > > CP 25/1/290/60, number 68: (1402-1403) > Persons: Thomas Haweley; William Kelke; Robert Tirwhit; John Turnay; Roger de Bernardeston'; William Ingham; Margery > Places: Bernetby; Kedyngton'; Bernardeston'; Kedyngton'; Bernardeston'; Dagenham; Berkyng'; Whetele; Dancastre; Baldirton' [Suffolk. Essex. Yorkshire] > > CP 25/1/144/153, number 7: (1409-1410) > Persons: William Kelke; Robert Tirwhit; Nicholas Tournay; Stephen Burne; Alice > Places: Magna Stepyng; Frysby [Lincolnshire] > > CP 25/1/145/158, number 23: (1435) > Persons: Roger Kelke; Robert Feryby; Patrick Skypwyth'; Agnes > Places: Frothyngham; Bekeby; Wraweby [Lincolnshire] > > CP 25/1/280/159, number 3: (1442) > Persons: William Tirwhit; William Kelke; Thomas Tirwhit; William West; Thomas Kelke; Elizabeth > Places: Beu[er]laco; Beu[er]laco; Beu[er]laci [Yorkshire] > > Any insight would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, > Jordan Vandenberg.
On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 1:42:43 PM UTC-4, Jordan Vandenberg wrote: > Another interesting tidbit found in one of the fines mentioned above is that there is reference to William Kelke, the elder and Margaret his wife, and in the same fine reference to William Kelke, the younger and his wife Isabel. The fine is dated 25 June 1406, making the elder William Kelke married to Margaret a possibility as the William Kelke who was the son of Roger Kelke married to _____ Leyburne. If William Kelke the elder is this same William Kelke son of Roger, would that possibly make Margaret the wife mentioned the daughter of John Barnetby? > > http://medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_144_152.shtml#17 > http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/CP25%281%29/CP25%281%29no144/IMG_2695.htm > > CP 25/1/144/152, number 18. > Link: Image of document at AALT > County: Lincolnshire. > Place: Westminster. > Date: The day after St John the Baptist, 7 Henry [IV] [25 June 1406]. > Parties: William Kelk the elder and Margaret, his wife, querents, and John Kydale and John Grene of Benyngworth', deforciants. > Property: 4 messuages, 16 bovates and 60 acres of land and 60 acres of meadow in Gunwardby, Louthburgh' and Bynbroke. > Action: Plea of covenant. > Agreement: William and Margaret have acknowledged the tenements to be the right of John Kydale, as those which the same John and John Grene have of their gift. > For this: John and John have granted to William and Margaret the tenements and have rendered them to them in the court, to hold to William and Margaret, of the chief lords for the lives of William and Margaret. And after the decease of William and Margaret the tenements shall remain to William Kelk the younger and Isabel, his wife, and the heirs of their bodies, to hold of the chief lords for ever. In default of such heirs, remainder to the right heirs of Margaret. > > Standardised forms of names. (These are tentative suggestions, intended only as a finding aid.) > Persons: William Kelk, Margaret Kelk, John Kiddall, John Green, Isabel Kelk > Places: Benniworth, Gonerby, Ludborough, Binbrook > > > > Any insight would be welcome and appreciated. > Jordan. > ... Yes, that is one of the fines I mentioned in my post. The abstract of the fine doesn't state that the younger William was the son of the elder William and Margaret, but it does seem consistent with that hypothesis. A William Kelke was an escheater in the mid 1380s. It seems plausible that he was the man married to Margaret by 1390. A problem is that such a William would be too old to be the son of a Roger born in 1349. Perhaps the statement in the inquisition should be interpreted as at least age 60. Or perhaps the Roger in the inquisition is a different man.
According to the pedigrees in Lincolnshire there seem to be a number of known Roger Kelkes, and no doubt a few unknown ones. Even more so for William It will be.difficult with the current Information to even try to form a sketch of a tree that is anything more than really rough guesses. Are we even certain that Roger Tirwhit's father in law was indeed need Roger?
Joe, In "Notices and remains of the family of Tyrwhitt..." by Robert Philip Tyrwhitt there is proof offered that Roger Kelke was the father of Alice Kelke who married Robert Triwhit. Monuments in Barnetby Church are described relating to them. See pages 12-13 in the text and footnote 4. https://books.google.ca/books?id=UGYBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=kelke+tyrwhitt&source=bl&ots=-WSvNRZdeq&sig=TAHqbs0XAbGTtzOgFS4zDK8phf4&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=kelke%20tyrwhitt&f=false Jordan. On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:09:00 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote: > According to the pedigrees in Lincolnshire there seem to be a number of known Roger Kelkes, and no doubt a few unknown ones. Even more so for William It will be.difficult with the current Information to even try to form a sketch of a tree that is anything more than really rough guesses. > > Are we even certain that Roger Tirwhit's father in law was indeed need Roger?