On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 12:39:49 AM UTC-7, Katherine Kennedy wrote: > Another interesting and unexpected Middle Eastern connection is from the > Clan Graham Y DNA group. They are largely J1 and their subclade is apparently > very closely related to the cohen modal haplotype. I've read a suggestion of > an auxiliary Syrian archer being their ancestor. The family is too old to > consider a Crusader connection. The misnamed Cohen modal haplotype has been found across a wide swath of middle eastern and even among some African populations, and when you say 'closely related' you are expanding the potential pool even further, just identifying someone with middle eastern ancestry anytime within 5000 years. Yes, it could have been a Syrian archer, but it could have been slave from the viking raids in Al-Andalus, or a captive among the Celts, a Romanized Jewish or Carthaginian legionnaire, a trader, anything. In historical times we see individuals making some very unusual peregrinations, not linked to specific population movements, and there is no reason similar one-off instances can be excluded from a period before we have such detailed records. To think one can point to a moment of time and say 'that is when it came to Britain' is a classic example of genealogists abhorring a vacuum. taf

On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 10:26:01 AM UTC-4, taf wrote: > On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 12:39:49 AM UTC-7, Katherine Kennedy wrote: > > > Another interesting and unexpected Middle Eastern connection is from the > > Clan Graham Y DNA group. They are largely J1 and their subclade is apparently > > very closely related to the cohen modal haplotype. I've read a suggestion of > > an auxiliary Syrian archer being their ancestor. The family is too old to > > consider a Crusader connection. > > The misnamed Cohen modal haplotype has been found across a wide swath of middle eastern and even among some African populations, and when you say 'closely related' you are expanding the potential pool even further, just identifying someone with middle eastern ancestry anytime within 5000 years. Yes, it could have been a Syrian archer, but it could have been slave from the viking raids in Al-Andalus, or a captive among the Celts, a Romanized Jewish or Carthaginian legionnaire, a trader, anything. In historical times we see individuals making some very unusual peregrinations, not linked to specific population movements, and there is no reason similar one-off instances can be excluded from a period before we have such detailed records. To think one can point to a moment of time and say 'that is when it came to Britain' is a classic example of genealogists abhorring a vacuum. > > taf Allow me to share some further information on the Graham DNA findings, so you can better put any deductions into context. A short synopsis concerning the age of their subclade, J-L1253, can be found below. https://www.familytreedna.com/public/J1c3d-with-SNP-L1253/default.aspx?section=results Eupedia states, "All three branches of J1-L858 (S640, YSC76 and FGC11) are found in Europe, principally in Spain, Italy, central and eastern Europe. Their relatively recent time of divergence with their Middle Eastern cousins (Late Bronze Age to Iron Age) suggests that they would have arrived with the Phoenicians (Sicily, Sardinia, Spain), and later in greater numbers with the Jewish diaspora. Spain and Portugal have the highest percentage of FGC12 in Europe, but this amounts to about 12% of J1 lineages, i.e. less than 0.5% of the population, suggesting that the Arabs had a much smaller genetic impact on the Iberian population than the Jews and the Phoenicians." As can be seen from the first link, the Grahams' J-L1253 stems from YSC76. http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J1_Y-DNA.shtml Genealogists most certainly abhor a vacuum, and I'm sure Ancestry.com and a host of others are glad they do. It does indeed lead to some colourful theories, however.