Gus Gem [email protected] On 10 May 2017, at 02:10, [email protected] wrote: > Send GEN-MEDIEVAL mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists2.rootsweb.ancestry.com/mailman/listinfo/gen-medieval > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of GEN-MEDIEVAL digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Another Agatha sidelight - the birthdate of Empress > Gisela (Peter Stewart) > 2. Curmsun disc (taf) > 3. Re: Curmsun disc (Peter Stewart) > 4. Re: John Heart, son of David Heart and Jean Mowat, descendant > of James V of Scotland ([email protected]) > > From: Peter Stewart <[email protected]> > Date: 9 May 2017 23:03:11 BST > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Another Agatha sidelight - the birthdate of Empress > Gisela > > > > > On 10/05/2017 5:50 AM, Hans Vogels wrote: >> Op dinsdag 9 mei 2017 20:51:49 UTC+2 schreef Hans Vogels: >> >> Count Bruno was one of the pretenders in July 1002 when king >> Heinrich II was chosen. That seems to be his last mentioning. >> >> Dr. Wilhelm Wegener, "Genealogische Tafeln zur Mitteleuropäischen >> Geschichte", blz.196 >> >> http://www.manfred-hiebl.de/genealogie-mittelalter/schwaben/hermann_4_herzog_von_schwaben_1039_babenberger/hermann_4_herzog_von_schwaben_+_1038.html >> >> suggests that Ernst I, husband (married before 1012) of Gisela, was >> already married before Christmas 1004 when he appears as >> (Schwäbischer) Pfalzgraf, which can only be explained through his >> marriage. > > This is based on an inauthentic charter from St Stephan abbey in > Strasbourg, and the dating is one of the give-away elements (the > charter states 1005, but with other details indicating 1004). > > By the way, it is unfortunate that the citation on Genealogie- > Mittelalter is to Wilhelm Wegener, who was the editor, instead of > Franz Tyroller who was the author. > > Peter Stewart > > > > > From: taf <[email protected]> > Date: 10 May 2017 00:47:03 BST > To: [email protected] > Subject: Curmsun disc > > > In December 2014, there were reports of the rediscovery of a crude > gold disc in what is now Poland, near the ancient location of the > viking stronghold of Jomsborg. It's history is convoluted and > accounts somewhat contradictory - it is said to have formed part of > a viking hoard originally found in the crypt of a ruined church in > 1841. During WWII the disc fell into the hands of a Polish army > officer (I have seen different accounts of how this happened) and > the value of the disc not recognized. In 2014, his great-grandchild > took the interesting trinket to show her teacher and the rest, as > they say, is history (perhaps). The disc has come to be called the > 'Curmsun disc'. > > Why do we care? The disc contains a curious inscription, which if > contemporary would be one of the oldest pieces of genealogical > evidence regarding viking-era Scandinavia not found on a rune stone. > > Specifically it reads > > +ARALD > CVRMSVN+ > REX AD TAN > ER+SCON+J > VMN+CIV > ALDIN+ > > Which has been interpreted as: Harald Gormson, King of Danes, > Scania, Jomsborg, and Oldenburg (there are various alternative > interpretations). There is some dispute as to whether it is > authentic or a later forgery, and those in the 'authentic camp' all > seem to have a different interpretation of when and why the disc was > cast (it is agreed it was cast and not struck). > > Is anyone aware of any published scholarly analysis of this item? > (hopefully not requiring me to learn Polish or Danish to read) The > following two Academia.edu deposits appear respectable, but I am > intereted in what the broader scholarly community is making of it. > > https://www.academia.edu/9647410/A_unique_object_from_Harald_Bluetooth_s_time._2015_ > > https://www.academia.edu/29233334/The_Curmsun_Disc_-_Harald_Bluetooth_s_Golden_Seal > > See also: http://www.thecurmsundisc.com/ > > taf > > > > > From: Peter Stewart <[email protected]> > Date: 10 May 2017 01:31:59 BST > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Curmsun disc > > > > > On 10/05/2017 9:47 AM, taf wrote: >> In December 2014, there were reports of the rediscovery of a crude >> gold disc in what is now Poland, near the ancient location of the >> viking stronghold of Jomsborg. It's history is convoluted and >> accounts somewhat contradictory - it is said to have formed part of >> a viking hoard originally found in the crypt of a ruined church in >> 1841. During WWII the disc fell into the hands of a Polish army >> officer (I have seen different accounts of how this happened) and >> the value of the disc not recognized. In 2014, his great- >> grandchild took the interesting trinket to show her teacher and the >> rest, as they say, is history (perhaps). The disc has come to be >> called the 'Curmsun disc'. >> >> Why do we care? The disc contains a curious inscription, which if >> contemporary would be one of the oldest pieces of genealogical >> evidence regarding viking-era Scandinavia not found on a rune stone. >> >> Specifically it reads >> >> +ARALD >> CVRMSVN+ >> REX AD TAN >> ER+SCON+J >> VMN+CIV >> ALDIN+ >> >> Which has been interpreted as: Harald Gormson, King of Danes, >> Scania, Jomsborg, and Oldenburg (there are various alternative >> interpretations). There is some dispute as to whether it is >> authentic or a later forgery, and those in the 'authentic camp' all >> seem to have a different interpretation of when and why the disc >> was cast (it is agreed it was cast and not struck). >> >> Is anyone aware of any published scholarly analysis of this item? >> (hopefully not requiring me to learn Polish or Danish to read) The >> following two Academia.edu deposits appear respectable, but I am >> intereted in what the broader scholarly community is making of it. >> >> https://www.academia.edu/9647410/A_unique_object_from_Harald_Bluetooth_s_time._2015_ >> >> https://www.academia.edu/29233334/The_Curmsun_Disc_-_Harald_Bluetooth_s_Golden_Seal >> >> See also: http://www.thecurmsundisc.com/ >> > > You may have to wait a while yet - according to Karen Schousboe in > November 2014 (here: http://www.medievalhistories.com/harold-bluetooths-talisman-sensational-find-fake/) > , "However, the field is decidedly not covered and we still lack a > more detailed technical and philological examination by scholars and > scientists." > > With something as fishy as this object, experts may be in no hurry > to take a plunge. > > Peter Stewart > > > > > From: [email protected] > Date: 10 May 2017 02:06:19 BST > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: John Heart, son of David Heart and Jean Mowat, > descendant of James V of Scotland > > > Rev. William and Katherine Craighead Homes of Martha's Vineyard had > a quite numerous progeny, with at least the following descendants > (or spouses) covered in entries in the _Dictionary of American > Biography_. > > Henry Augustus Homes > Arthur Tappan > Benjamin Tappan > Eli Todd Tappan > John Henry Wright > Lewis Tappan > Henry Chandler Bowen > David Tappan Stoddard > Rufus Wilmot Griswold (the "frenemy" and literary executor of E.A. > Poe) > William McCrillis Griswold > > Additionally, I think the wife of Henry Varnum Poor, of the family > behind Standard & Poors, was a descendant. > > >