Douglas Richardson initiated this thread back on 20 February 2017 and presents his current file on Philippa Bonville. Richardson also provided a short reasoning behind why he placed Philippa Bonville as the sister of Lord William Bonville. He also laid out his three major assumptions for this conclusion. First, he assumes that William Grenville, Esq., and Philippa Bonville were married in 1428 (any later date would push the chronology a little too much for Philippa to be borne by 1396 and to have five children after her marriage). Additionally, all we know is that William Grenville and Philippa Bonville married after 12 May 1427. Did William and Philippa marry within a few years after this? Probably yes, but that could have been in 1429, 1430, or 1431. There isn’t any evidence to confirm they married in 1428. We know that their first born son, Thomas Grenville I, married Anne Courtenay in 1447 and they had to sue in the courts to grant a tenement to Richard Ashrigge in 1449. In this same tenement, William Grenville is mentioned as still being alive. Most estimates place William Grenville’s date of death in the year 1450, which includes Charles Fitch-Northen. This would suggest that Thomas was not of age (21 years old) in 1449 because the courts were involved, thus making Thomas Grenville 20 years of age or younger in 1449. We can then conclude that Thomas Grenville was born no earlier than 1429 and assuredly could have been born in 1430 or 1431 (which would follow along with the same reasoning and original date of birth estimate for Thomas Grenville being 1430 as found in Weis’ The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 fifth ed. (1999): p. 30 [Line 22-11]). We also have a land grant from Thomas Grenville and his second wife to Richard Rede in the 31st Henry VI [21 Jan. 1453]. Since the courts were not involved, we can be quite sure that Thomas Grenville was of age (21 years old) in 1452, thus placing his date of birth around 1431. Secondly, Douglas Richardson assumes that Philippa Bonville had an unnoticed first marriage to explain why she was of such a late age (32 years old / assuming a date of birth of 1396 and a marriage date of 1428) upon her marriage to William Grenville, Esq., in the early 15th century. This is way too convenient to say in order to help fit her into the window of being Sir John Bonville and Elizabeth FitzRoger’s daughter, born between May 1393 and July 1397. Once again, since there is neither any primary nor secondary evidence to suggest a first marriage of Philippa before William Grenville, this makes it quite easy to concoct such a marriage for Philippa Bonville. We can estimate this date range (May 1393 – July 1397) given the proof of age for Lord William Bonville, which puts his date of birth at 31 Aug. 1392. We know through ipms that Sir John Bonville’s death occurred on 21 Oct. 1396. So following along the lines of this theory, if Philippa was born in 1397, Elizabeth FitzRoger would had to of conceived Philippa in the months just prior to John Bonville’s death (with John Bonville most likely being in ill-health for most of 1396 before his death in Oct. 1396). This is an unlikely scenario and thus would reduce the date range of Philippa’s birth to occur before 1397. We also know that Thomas Bonville and Isabel Bonville were also born between May 1393 and July 1397. Again, suggesting that Isabel was born before Lord William Bonville is an easy convention in order to allow more time for Philippa to be born within the time period after May 1393 and before 1397. It should also be noted that Elizabeth FitzRoger’s marriage agreement with her 2nd husband, Richard Stukeley, Gent., occurred on 6 Dec. 1396. Elizabeth FitzRoger’s ipm in 1414 gives her eldest son with Richard Stukeley a date of birth of 1398. Again, the evidence that Philippa had a marriage prior to William Grenville is as unnoticed as the invention that she did. There is zero evidence to suggest that Philippa had a prior marriage to William Grenville. Richardson’s own file account of Philippa states, “PHILIPPE BONVILLE, married (1st) after 12 May 1427 (as his 2nd wife) WILLIAM GRENVILLE!” Finally, Douglas Richardson’s third assumption is that Hugh Stukeley was the half-brother of Philippa Bonville because Hugh served as a feoffee for Philippa Bonville’s husband, William Grenville. Richardson states, “But the most likely explanation is that Hugh Stucle, Esq., was Isabel and Philippe Bonville’s half-brother.” Any student of history would know by looking at the lists of feoffees for the 15th century, just how many were the sibling-in-laws of the people involved! Was it more than likely that Hugh Stukeley was the brother-in-law or the uncle-in-law of William Grenville? It is unsupportable to use Hugh Stukeley’s feoffee status to conclude either relationship (brother-in-law or uncle-in-law) to William Grenville, other than just wanting it to be so. In Roger Granville’s book, The History of the Granville family, he states: “In the 26th Henry VI. [7 Nov 1447], being styled William Graynefild, he grants lands to James (William ?) Chuddeleigh and Hugh Stucles, Esquires. The deed is dated 7th November, and thereto is appended two seals.” There is no mention in the History of the Granville family, or in the deed itself of the exact relationship between William Grenville and Hugh Stukeley. It doesn’t say that William granted lands to his brother-in-law nor does it mention any other kind of kinship. But since we know that Elizabeth FitzRoger married Richard Stukeley after 6 Dec. 1396, we can presume there was a kinship between Hugh Stukeley and Philippa Bonville. There is nothing to say that Hugh Stukeley was not the uncle of Philippa Bonville, as we know it is fact that Hugh Stuckeley was the half-brother of Lord William Bonville. Again, Richardson wants Philippa to be the sister of Lord William Bonville, so it is more than convenient to say that Hugh Stukeley was Philippa’s half-brother. These three assumptions make it convenient for Richardson to place Philippa Bonville as the sister of Lord William Bonville and the daughter of Sir John Bonville and Elizabeth FitzRoger. What Richardson fails to achieve is to provide any concrete evidence to support or confirm his assumptions. This would make his conclusion that Philippa Bonville was the sister of Lord William Bonville very suspect. Who is to say that Professor J. S. Roskell’s conclusion that Philippa Bonville was the daughter of Lord William Bonville and Margaret Grey inaccurate? According to the Proceedings of the British Academy, “His insistence on never going a step beyond the evidence, his profound distrust of speculation, and the down-to-earth commonsense of his Lancashire stock, gave his conclusions a solidity that commanded assent. He steered to successful completion the official history of The House of Commons, 1386–1421, which bears the imprint of his approach.” We should trust the conclusion of Professor Roskell as it concerns the parentage of Philippa Bonville, because that is what all the evidence has ever supported. Those interested should also see: {Weis, Frederick Lewis "The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215" third ed. (1985): p. 16, [Line 22-10] (author states, "Sir William Grenville, of Biddeford, d. c. 1451; m. Philippa, dau. of Sir William Bonville, K.G., Lord Bonville, of Chewton-Mendip, near Wells Somerset.")}