Op dinsdag 9 mei 2017 02:08:30 UTC+2 schreef Peter Stewart: > On 9/05/2017 7:28 AM, Paulo Canedo wrote: > > Onde thing we can be pretty sure of, Gisela was born before 999 since placing her birth in 999 leads to an unbeliveable short chronology. > > > > I would say impossibly short, and in conflict with a good deal of > circumstantial evidence. > > Gisela's first husband had apparently been murdered some while before > November 1014, Would logic not suggest that Gisela was already a remarried widow at the time. That she remarried before or in 1012 with her second husband as he received the duchy of Swabia. Hans Vogels and her son by him must have been been born in the first > few years of the 11th century, for reasons set out in the Henry Project > Agatha page. > > Gisela's sister Mathilde was married by April 1005, probably by January > 1003 (the dating of the synod at which her marriage was denounced by > Heinrich II is uncertain). Mathilde has usually been thought the elder > of the two sisters, but this is most probably a specious hold-over from > a time when historians had the order of Gisela's marriages confused. > When their brother died in 1012 his duchy of Swabia was given to > Gisela's second husband - Mathilde was a widow at the time, but she had > two sons. There is no evidence that Heinrich II passed them over for the > inheritance as sons of the eldest daughter, and in any case by 1019 > Gisela's third husband Konrad II (then duke of Franconia) was in > alliance with Mathilde's elder son in strife against the husband of her > younger sister Beatrix - the latter was evidently compensated for the > loss of her inheritance in Swabia with property in Styria. Neither > Mathilde or Beatrix (or their husbands) seem to have contested with > Gisela over the duchy of Swabia. When it was taken from one of Gisela's > sons in 1030 it was given to another, not to the elder son of Mathilde > (who subsequently became duke of Carinthia). > > Peter Stewart

On 9/05/2017 3:40 PM, Hans Vogels wrote: > Op dinsdag 9 mei 2017 02:08:30 UTC+2 schreef Peter Stewart: >> On 9/05/2017 7:28 AM, Paulo Canedo wrote: >>> Onde thing we can be pretty sure of, Gisela was born before 999 since placing her birth in 999 leads to an unbeliveable short chronology. >>> >> I would say impossibly short, and in conflict with a good deal of >> circumstantial evidence. >> >> Gisela's first husband had apparently been murdered some while before >> November 1014, > Would logic not suggest that Gisela was already a remarried widow at the time. That she remarried before or in 1012 with her second husband as he received the duchy of Swabia. > Yes it would - I was not thinking connectedly about this. Hermann of Reichenau explicitly stated that Gisela was married to her brother's successor (her second husband, Ernest of Babenberg), under the year 1012 ("Herimannus quoque iunior dux Alemanniae defunctus, Ernustum, sororis suae Giselae maritum, successorem accepit"). Peter Stewart