Op dinsdag 9 mei 2017 02:08:30 UTC+2 schreef Peter Stewart: > On 9/05/2017 7:28 AM, Paulo Canedo wrote: > > Onde thing we can be pretty sure of, Gisela was born before 999 since placing her birth in 999 leads to an unbeliveable short chronology. > > > > I would say impossibly short, and in conflict with a good deal of > circumstantial evidence. Hermann von Reichenau seems to be the source of the knowledge that duke Hermann II had three daughters and one son. The duke had only daughters and went on a pilgrimage for a son, one that thereafter indeed was born. That would mean that at least 2 daughters have to be born before the son Hermann III. The son was named parvulus in 1003 when his father died, adhuc puerulus in 1004 and died on 1 April 1012 as a puer/adolescentulus. Hermann III functioned in 1007 as dux (rechtsfähig) that could mean a. he was born no later than January 992 (15 years) or b. he was born in/before January 995 (full 12 years). Paul Friedrich von Stälin, "Geschichte Württembergs", 1882, seite 194. http://www.manfred-hiebl.de/genealogie-mittelalter/schwaben/hermann_3_herzog_von_schwaben_1012_konradiner/hermann_3_herzog_von_schwaben_1012.html >From this can be concluded that the two eldest (perhaps all three) sisters were born before 992 (most likely). Hans Vogels > > Gisela's first husband had apparently been murdered some while before > November 1014, and her son by him must have been been born in the first > few years of the 11th century, for reasons set out in the Henry Project > Agatha page. > > Gisela's sister Mathilde was married by April 1005, probably by January > 1003 (the dating of the synod at which her marriage was denounced by > Heinrich II is uncertain). Mathilde has usually been thought the elder > of the two sisters, but this is most probably a specious hold-over from > a time when historians had the order of Gisela's marriages confused. > When their brother died in 1012 his duchy of Swabia was given to > Gisela's second husband - Mathilde was a widow at the time, but she had > two sons. There is no evidence that Heinrich II passed them over for the > inheritance as sons of the eldest daughter, and in any case by 1019 > Gisela's third husband Konrad II (then duke of Franconia) was in > alliance with Mathilde's elder son in strife against the husband of her > younger sister Beatrix - the latter was evidently compensated for the > loss of her inheritance in Swabia with property in Styria. Neither > Mathilde or Beatrix (or their husbands) seem to have contested with > Gisela over the duchy of Swabia. When it was taken from one of Gisela's > sons in 1030 it was given to another, not to the elder son of Mathilde > (who subsequently became duke of Carinthia). > > Peter Stewart