On 9/05/2017 1:22 PM, taf wrote: > On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 7:41:09 PM UTC-7, Peter Stewart wrote: >> On 9/05/2017 10:47 AM, Douglas Richardson wrote: >> >> <snip> >>> (2) Mr. Cawley suggests that Countess Pernel's father, William, may be the William (or Guglielmo) de Grandmesnil, signore of Oriolo in Italy, who issued a charter in 1117 with his widowed mother, Countess Mabel, to Cava. References: Il monastero di S. Elia di Carbone e il suo territorio dal Medioevo all'età moderna (1996): 123; Monasteri, principi, aristocrazie: la Trinità di Cava nei secoli XI e XII (2008): 75. >> Where does Cawley state this? Assuming he does, he is up to his usual >> standard - the first reference cited specifically states that the year >> should be corrected from 1117 to 1113. > Cawley says it here: > > http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMANDY%20NOBILITY.htm#_Toc479099765 > But the sole reference given by Cawley is "Codice Diplomatico Verginiano, Vol. I, 132, (extract in translation only)" - as far as I can see, there is no mention of the two references given in Douglas Richardson's post. The discredit for failing to read the first of these (or even to identify its author, Hubert Houben) seems to belong elsewhere... Peter Stewart