On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 3:27:29 PM UTC+10, Peter Stewart wrote: > On 10/05/2017 2:41 PM, Hans Vogels wrote: > > The minimum marriage age for girls by medieval Canon law was 12 years with > > the restriction that the girl in question reached puberty. If Gisela was > > 14/15 at the time of her first marriage and being born at the end of the > > '80, a first marriage ca.1002 is not troublesome, being the year of the > > latest known mentioning of count Bruno. > > The timing of Bruno's death is a vexed issue - he is usually identified > as the Bruno whose murder in his own home some time before was brought > up in the context of a crime committed by Thietmar of Merseberg's nephew > Werner in November 1014. Thietmar himself was present on 14 November > 1014 when Heinrich II was tasking counsel on the matter. I should have checked the details - Werner was a cousin, not nephew, of Thietmar (who called him his 'nepos'), and the date on which Thietmar was present with Heinrich II was 10 November, the day before Werner died (from his injuries in trying to abduct a second wife) on 11 November 1014. And I should have added, directly to the point made by Hans, that Werner's mother Godila was aged 12 (in her 13th year) when he was born. Thietmar states this in his chronicle, here: http://www.dmgh.de/de/fs1/object/goToPage/bsb00000689.html?pageNo=176 ("Liutharius ... quandam matronam Godilam nomine ... sibi in coniugem desponsavit et acquisivit, quae peperit ei in tertio decimo aetatis suae anno primogenitum, patris sui nomine appellans Wirinharium"). Peter Stewart