Dear John, normally I would agree with you about conjecturing, however the Despsner pedigree has been so difficult for everyone who have tried to pin it down, even in 2003/2004 John Ravilous even coined this pedigree as the "Holy Grail of Genealogy" for good reason. It's difficult, and tantalizing little info or records to go on, yet they rose to prominance. This genealogy requires a different approach and if I have to post conjectured lines which to me make perfect sense then that's what I will, in the hope someone sees something that stikes a memory or connection to advance this pedigree. By the way, you say only two sons have been identified Geoffrey and ivo, that is not an accurate statement. William is named with Ivo in the charters of Cecily , Lady of Skipton. Ivo was the Constable of the Skipton fee and sometime Constable of the Castle of Coventry. John, you mentioned that two nephew's of Ivo de Alspath have been identified, perhaps suggestiing that Anschetil Dispenser had an otherwise unknown dau. I'm just wondering if you have ever shared this information before this post? Thank you Robert

On Friday, May 19, 2017 at 2:31:29 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote: > Dear John, normally I would agree with you about conjecturing, however the > Despsner pedigree has been so difficult for everyone who have tried to pin > it down, even in 2003/2004 John Ravilous even coined this pedigree as the > "Holy Grail of Genealogy" for good reason. It's difficult, and tantalizing > little info or records to go on, yet they rose to prominance. This genealogy > requires a different approach and if I have to post conjectured lines which > to me make perfect sense then that's what I will, in the hope someone sees > something that stikes a memory or connection to advance this pedigree. Over-the-top rhetoric aside, there is nothing special about this line, and no requirement for a different approach. Conjecture is part of the standard approach, but it should not be made on a whim and it should be clearly and explicitly marked and explained as such (and I mean the specific connections, not just a label at the top calling the whole tree conjectural without indicating what is and what isn't). Such conjectures tend to take on a life of their own, even when well marked, so one should exercise extreme care in presenting them, and absolutely should make it abundantly what is deduction and what is speculation and what is outright guesswork. taf

On Friday, 19 May 2017 22:31:29 UTC+1, [email protected] wrote: > Dear John, normally I would agree with you about conjecturing, however the Despsner pedigree has been so difficult for everyone who have tried to pin it down, even in 2003/2004 John Ravilous even coined this pedigree as the "Holy Grail of Genealogy" for good reason. It's difficult, and tantalizing little info or records to go on, yet they rose to prominance. This genealogy requires a different approach and if I have to post conjectured lines which to me make perfect sense then that's what I will, in the hope someone sees something that stikes a memory or connection to advance this pedigree. > > By the way, you say only two sons have been identified Geoffrey and ivo, that is not an accurate statement. William is named with Ivo in the charters of Cecily , Lady of Skipton. Ivo was the Constable of the Skipton fee and sometime Constable of the Castle of Coventry. > > John, you mentioned that two nephew's of Ivo de Alspath have been identified, perhaps suggestiing that Anschetil Dispenser had an otherwise unknown dau. > I'm just wondering if you have ever shared this information before this post? > > Thank you > Robert Dear Robert, Your suggestion that John Ravilious called the Despenser pedigree "the Holy Grail of Genealogy," seems a bit far fetched unless he was joking. Do you have a link for this, as I can't find anything in the archives. In my post of June 2014, I gave the bare bones of the Despenser pedigree - have I discovered the Holy Grail? - how exciting. http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/gen-medieval/2014-06/1402347309 I said that Ivo de Alspath had two nephews who witnessed his charter to Coventry and may have had a sister. Of course they could be sons of a sister, or two sisters, or a brother, or two brothers, or his wife's brothers or sisters, or even his grandsons as the word "nepos" was sometimes used for grandsons. I have no great interest in finding out - maybe you could do some research. He certainly had a daughter, because his grandson James le Bret confirmed his gift to Coventry. https://books.google.com/books?id=r71LN35ZEG4C&pg=PA194 Can you give a source for your claim that Ivo had a brother called William? Regards, John