On 14/05/2017 3:37 AM, Paulo Canedo wrote: > Mr. Stewart, in one post at the thread The Bad Logics of Geni's Agatha page you mentioned Ida of Elsterdof tradionally believed to be granddaughter of Empress Gisela and daughter of Liudolf however I must say that the chronology making her Gisela's granddaughter and Liudolf's daughter is very tight what do you think. This relationship of Ida to Gisela relies on the peculiar account given by Albert of Stade, which I think is probably wrong. That Liudolf was Gisela's son is proven by imperial charters where he is called step-son of Konrad II and (half-)brother of Heinrich III, but we don't have nearly such compelling evidence that Ida was a daughter of Liudolf. Despite the charter evidence, Albrecht von Finckenstein in 1978 questioned whether Liudolf was actually Gisela's son or perhaps was really her step-son - this seems unreasonable to me, as 'privignus' and 'frater' were not loose terms in imperial diplomatic. However, the connection to Ida is based on a source that seems equally unreasonable to me. Her son and heir is supposed to have been killed, whereupon she trekked to Rome to consult with her alleged uncle Pope Leo IX and on returning home adopted her son's killer as her heir despite having other biological offspring of her own. To me this narrative has a surreal quality, like an incidental story from 1,001 Nights. Peter Stewart