On 31/05/2017 8:21 PM, Tompkins, Matthew (Dr.) wrote: > From: Peter Stewart > Sent: 31 May 2017 00:50 >> Tamsin is probably the closest approximation to an English "vernacular" feminine form of Thomas (which itself is, of course, a name exotic to the British Isles). >> >> But then it's not a point worth fussing over, as Thomasina is a perfectly sensible alternative. The crackpot idea that English communication should avoid latinity - much less in a post half-full of latinate words - is too silly to contemplate. No sensible researcher would waste a moment over such nonsense. >> >> Peter Stewart > > ------------------------------- > > I'm afraid you're out of step with most academic historians of late medieval England there, Peter. Why should you suppose that "most academic historians of late medieval England" set (or follow) a standard that ought to be adopted by medieval genealogists? Late medieval England is one tiny patch in a vast field of study, far from the most interesting to me. And anyway, in time this pettifogging cohort may grow out of their rather useless conformity. If their purpose is to know "what was the contemporary vernacular form", they should realise as undergraduates that these were multifarious, not at all standardised. > As I've explained several times before, it is usual for record publishing societies to adopt the principles proposed by Roy Hunnisett in Indexing for Editors (British Records Association, London, 1972). At pp 56-7 he says: > > 'Forenames of Englishmen should be given in their modern English spelling , or their most common one if there is more than one, in calendars as in indexes. This means that when necessary they must be translated from Latin and French and modernised from their older English spelling. The Latin forms present the greatest difficulties. The main problems arise from names such as Matildis, Reginaldus, Jacobus, Elias and others which can represent what are now two distinct forenames. It is suggested that when applied to medieval Englishmen such names be translated into the form which has given rise to most English surnames - Maud, Reynold, James and Ellis in the examples cited ...' Perhaps Hunnisett would be a spiritual brother of T.E. Lawrence's proof-reader, regarding whose pedantic bleatings he had the illuminating exchange with his editor copied below. His comment "I spell my names anyhow, to show what rot the systems are" applies just as well to medieval names. Peter Stewart Q. I attach a list of queries raised by F. who is reading the proofs. He finds these very clean, but full of inconsistencies in the spelling of proper names, a point which reviewers often take up. Will you annotate it in the margin, so that I can get the proofs straightened? A. Annotated: not very helpfully perhaps. Arabic names won't go into English, exactly, for their consonants are not the same as ours, and their vowels, like ours, vary from district to district. There are some 'scientific systems' of transliteration, helpful to people who know enough Arabic not to need helping, but a wash-out for the world. I spell my names anyhow, to show what rot the systems are. Q. Slip 1. Jeddah and Jidda used impartially throughout. Intentional? A. Rather! Q. Bir Waheida was Bir Waheidi. A. Why not? All one place. Q. Slip 20. Nuri, Emir of the Ruwalla, belongs to the 'chief family of the Rualla.' On Slip 23, 'Rualla horse,' and Slip 38, 'killed one Rueli.' In later slips 'Rualla.' A. Should have also used Ruwala and Ruala. Q. Slip 28. The Bisaita is also spelt Biseita. A. Good. Q. Jedha, the she-camel, was Jedhah on Slip 40. A. She was a splendid beast. Q. Slip 53. 'Meleager, the immoral poet.' I have put 'immortal' poet, but the author may mean immoral after all. A. Immorality I know. Immortality I cannot judge. As you please: Meleager will not sue us for libel. Q. Slip 65. Author is addressed 'Ya Auruns,' but on Slip 56 was 'Aurans.' A. Also Lurens and Runs: not to mention 'Shaw.' More to follow, if time permits. Q. Slip 78. Sherif Abd el Mayin of Slip 68 becomes el Main, el Mayein, el Muein, el Mayin, and el Muyein. A. Good egg. I call this really ingenious.