So, what can we learn from this alleged 1686 document? Well, we have a Captain Hugh McDonald who tells us his mother is Anna Mackay and she is now married to The Reverend Hugh Munro, Minister of Durness. So far, that is completely consonant with what we know from other sources about the Anna Mackay who is allegedly the ancestress of Mary Anne Macleod -- the mother of Donald J. Trump. What else can we smoke out. Well this alleged 30 Mar 1686 document indicates that the late Lord Reay was Capt Hugh's mother's brother, i.e., his own uncle. How does that match with this? http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk/online/content/reay1628.htm It matches. John Mackay, 2nd Lord Reay, born ca. 1612, dies ca 1681. ...And he is the half-brother of an Honourable Ann Mackay, daughter of Donald Mackay, 1st Lord Reay and Elizabeth Thomson. Elizabeth Thomson was allegedly the third wife of this first Lord Reay, married him in 1631 and died ca. Jun 1637. Donald Mackay [ca. 1590/1-1649], 1st Lord Reay, had four wives and it is understandably difficult to track all his children. But Ann and Anna are common cognate Christian names, so there is no particular hiccup there. This Ann Mackay is said to have married an Alexander Macdonald, brother of James Macdonald of Sleat. Her mother is allegedly the daughter of Robert Thomson of Greenwich, co. Surrey -- and to have been Keeper of the Queen's Wardrobe [Queen Henrietta Maria's, wife of Charles I?]. Captain Hugh Macdonald tells us his father was Alexander Macdonald, so that fits too. He appears to have been the first husband of Anna Mackay and The Reverend Hugh Munro was the second. Therefore, an Anna Mackay, with descent from Edward III [8th great-granddaughter] and James IV, King of Scots [4th great-granddaughter] as ancestress of Mary Anne Macleod Trump, mother of Donald J. Trump, is certainly not beyond the bounds of possibility. DSH Manu Forti. ------------------------------- About Rev. Hugh Munro, minister of Durness Copy of Deed from the Macdonald Charter Chest referred to by Mr G. M. Fraser, Portree. I Captain Hugh Mconal Lawfull son to umq Alexr Mcdonal of pabellseary binds and oblidges me and my heirs to procure from Mistris Anna Macky my mother and from Mr Hugh Munro minister of Durness her husband a full and ample disposition and discharge to Sir Donal Mconal of Slait or his heirs of all they can ask or crave of him after the term of Whitsunday next to come eightie six years either upon the account of the sd mistris Anna Mckys matrimoniall contract or any other transaction or agreement made betwixt the Late Lord Reay her brother (with her consent) and Sir James Mackdonald of Slait, but still w'out prejudice of qt is due to her be the sd Sir Donal preceeding the forsd term. And in case I the sd Captain Hugh fail in procuring the forsd disposition & discharge betwixt the dait hierof and the term of Mertimess next to come eightie six years. Then and in yt case I bind and oblidge me and my heirs not only to give up to the sd Sr Donal or his heirs an contract of Wodsett granted be him to me of the Lands of Dustill more, but Likewayes to renounce the sds Lands in favours of the sd Sr Donal or his forsds, and also to be bound to pay to the sd Sir Donal or his forsds the usuall rent of the sds Lands at the term of mertimess abovmention'd, and ilk year thereafter during my stay there, and yt allenerly in case of failing in the fullfilling of the premises. And the sd Capt Hugh binds and oblidges me and my forsds to give up to the sd Sir Donal or his heirs an bond of five thousand merks granted be him to me at Edr the day of years. And farder I bind & oblidge me & my forsds to renew this my obligation to the sd Sir Donal or his heirs ay and while they find themselves sufficiently secured in witness qrof I have subscribed thir prit at Armidell the thirtieth day of March on thusand six hundred & eightie six years, before these wittnesses Donald Mconal off Castletown and Mr Martin Martin governour to the Laird of Mcdonal younger H. Mconal Donald Mcdonald Witness https://www.geni.com/people/Rev-Hugh-Munro-minister-of-Durness/6000000020842152751 DSH -------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: D. Spencer Hines Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:55 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval Subject: Re: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump I agree. I really don't think it passes the smell test and until I see further precise details and evidence I'm not accepting it. I have however been trying to trace both lines and the Rodham line is particularly questionable. Trump is not even Donald's "Real Name" of course. DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas "It may be said that, thanks to the 'clercs', humanity did evil for two thousand years, but honoured good. This contradiction was an honour to the human species, and formed the rift whereby civilisation slipped into the world." "La Trahison des clercs" [The Treason of the Intellectuals](1927) Julien Benda (1867-1956) "Leo van de Pas via" wrote in message news:mailman.11.1440624817.20542.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com... Olivier Guionneau sent the following: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3210778/Donald-Trump-Hillary-Clinton-revealed-distant-cousins-family-trees-share-set-royal-ancestors.html True or False? I started checking from the top, from familiar information towards the new details. With the Hillary Clinton line I got as far as Dorothy Ogle, Lady Grey, mother of Isabel Grey. This Isabel was married to Sir Ralph Grey of Chillingham.Sir Ralph and Isabel are ancestors of Prince Charles, according to Gerald Paget they are N12475 and N12476. I have not seen a list of all their children but so far I found five sons and two daughters : Isabel married to Sir Francis Radcliffe and Dorothy married to Sir Robert Delaval. I prefer not to jump in and say, isn't this great. I can't find a daughter Margaret married to a Rodham, mother of a Roddam, father of a Rodham. And here is where my acceptance of this line stops. I hope I am too cautious. Now Donald Trump's line. I went as far as Alexander Gordon, 12th Earl of Sutherland, and his daughter Lady Jane mother of Donald Mackay. This Donald, 1st Lord Reay, married a few times and is father of an Ann Mackay who married Alexander Macdonald (see BP 1999 page 2376) no legitimate daughter Anna married to a Munro. But BP maintains this Donald had illegitimate children and then only mentions a son Donald, which leaves it open that there is an illegitimate daughter Anna. Again as the information seems insecure to me, I won't be adding this lineage, not until more secure information emerges. What do others think? Leo van de Pas Canberra, Australia. ------------------------------------------------------------ Fortem Posce Animum Mortis Terrore Carentem Decimus Junius Juvenalis [Juvenal] (ca. 60 A.D. Aquino, Italy - ca. 127 A.D.] Satire X