> On Wednesday, 11 May 2016 14:02:32 UTC+1, Robert Spencer wrote: > > Help request: Previously, I have only seen one good reference to a William as brother of Hugh, son of Hugh Despenser in a charter of Thomas de Ardene in a Chester deed, in that record he was not shown with the name Despenser following as is portrayed below. > > > > First, can any one ascertain if the place "Lutterburc", has a more common name. I have seen similar spellings such as Luctberg, which later states it was Loughborough,but in this case, I'm not sure? > > > > Secondly, to [who's men] are they referring to when it says "with the consent of their men of ' Lutterburc". Bascially, I want to know: Is it saying Geoffrey de Jort has men in this place alongside Thomas Despenser? > > > > From: Honours and Kt's fees Vol. 1 > > pg. 63 under Woodthorpe: > > > > Thorpe ' Muntford ' is assumed to be the present Woodthorpe. > > > > The association of the family of Muntford (not Montefort) with > > this place, implied by its distinctive appellation, has not been > > discovered, but Thomas Despenser, Geoffrey de Jort, W. de > > Munford, Henry son of Serlo and Robert his son, and Robert son > > of Picot, with the consent of their men of ' Lutterburc,' gave to > > Garendon abbey land called ' Locholmewro de Luteberc' > > > > The position of this place is proved by the following deed : > > > > Hugh Despenser, son and heir of Hugh Despenser, grants > > to Sir Geoffrey Despenser his uncle his wood of Thorp Munfort, > > which descended to him from his father and from William > > Despenser his uncle, namely from Lousterbothes Durnes, by > > the grantor's wood called La Haye to his park (of Loughborough), > > adjoining the ditch between Thorpwatecroft and the field of Thorpmunfort, as > > far as Cadaker and so to La Thurne. > > > > As a side note: > > Woodthorpe is named under "Fees of Honour of Chester" the tenant is named as being Despenser. > > > ________________________________________ On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 3:13:37 PM UTC+1, Matt Tompkins wrote: > Lutterburc is certainly Loughborough, which appears in early records in forms like Lucteburc, Lucteburga (I suspect -tt- is a misreading of -ct-, a very easy mistake to make). By 1300 forms like Lughteburgh become more usual. > > In the last 6 months I've been looking at quite a few original records from Loughborough and Woodthorpe. I don't think I've ever seen the latter called anything but 'Wodthorpe', but then again all the references I've seen date from after 1350. It's quite possible that it was earlier called Thorpe Muntford or Montfort. But a short distance away from Woodthorpe are Shelthorpe, Knight Thorpe and Thorpe Acre - Thorpe Muntford might also have been one of them. > > The early forms of the names of all these places will be revealed when the final volume of Barrie Cox's Place-names of Leicestershire, dealing with West Goscote hundred, comes out (later this year?). Until then one has to look in his PhD thesis on the place-names of Leicestershire, on which the books are substantially based. We have one in our departmental library and I'll have a look at it on Friday, when I'll next be there. > > Matt Tompkins _____________________ I've looked in Barrie Cox's thesis and, yes, Thorp Muntford was the place later known as Woodthorpe. It was recorded in 1394 as 'Thorpe Mountford alias Wodethorp' - Cox had this reference from G.F. Farnham, Quorndon Records (London, 1912). Matt Tompkins