On Thursday, 5 May 2016 11:14:50 UTC+1, al...@mindspring.com wrote: > The applicable part of Rosie Bevan's article I cited earlier in this thread is: > > "In 1371 Sir Nicholas and Alice arranged to lease for 40 years, to their niece Maud Neville, sole heir of her parents, and her ill-fated first husband Sir William de Cantelupe 32 , "their purparty of Le Parkhall manor with appurtenances; saving all manner of rents, advowsons, profits of courts, their purparty of mills and the woods and pastures of their parks, and their purparty of Colebotirley, Asshouere, Chestirfeld, Aluy Wod, Grayhirstmore, Brampton Wode, and Molotgroue, of lands and tenements, rents and services in le Peek and of the reversion of Boythorp manor with appurtenances; rent, 66s. 8d. p.a., payable at the two terms of the year " 33 > > 32. Maud and her lover are said to have murdered Sir William Cantelupe in 1375 (Roskell, 1992, > Vol.2, pp.449-450). > 33. Manchester University: Crutchley Muniments CRU/18." > > She had earlier stated that Alice's sister Joan was married to Robert Neville of Scotton. > > Doug Smith Dear Doug, There is a detailed account of the trial following the murder of Sir William Cantlpe in 1375 in Rosamund Sillem, ed., Some Sessions of the Peace in Lincolnshire: 1360-1375, Lincoln Record Society, 30 (1937), lxvi et seq. https://archive.org/details/publicationslinc30lincuoft Maud de Neville, husband of Sir William de Cauntelou was one of the sixteen people accused of his murder, or complicity in it. Sillem presumes that she and Thomas de Kydale, sheriff of Lincoln in 1374-75 and 1377-78, were lovers and conspired to murder William. Kydale's position helped to ensure that Maud and most of the other accused were acquitted. Two of William's servants were found guilty and executed. For other possible explanations for the motive of this murder, see: Frederik Pedersen, Murder, Mayhem and a very small Penis https://www.academia.edu/187393/Murder_Mayhem_and_a_very_small_Penis Regards, John

Hi John Jonathan S. Mackman, The Lincolnshire Gentry and the Wars of the Roses, D. Phil. Thesis, Univ. of York, 1999, pps 279-301. Has some on these families (avail online). Rod Collins has some materials online about Nicholas de Cauntleou with the other explanation: http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/who-murdered-sir-william-cantilupe-and-why. >From Rod Collins: "There are some characteristics of Sir Nicholas II that we can be fairly certain of. That he was excessively tall and had a deep voice! Despite his seeming manliness, the cause of Katherine's panic was that her new hero had no external genitals! Here we have it in her own evidence as related by her father to the court at York: "Katarinam referre quod sepius temptavit manibus suis cum jacuit in lecto cum dicto Nicholao et ipse dormiebat locum genitalium dicti Nicholai et quod nulla palpare nee invenire potuit ibidem et quod locus in quo genitalia sua deberent esse est ita planus sicut manus hominis." In plain English it states that as he was showing no signs of sexual interest in her she waited until he fell asleep; she then felt with her hand in order to arouse him. To her horror all was smooth where his genitalia should have been as obvious as a man's hand! :shock: It seems that Sir Nicholas had a condition which today we term 'male pseudo-hermaphroditism ' This affects roughly one in six thousand male babies born. Apart from the height and voice characteristics, the adult cannot satisfactorily pro-generate and tends to die young. Sir Nicholas died at the age of 29. Sir Nicholas tried desperately to 'keep a lid on the revelation' by abducting Katherine and a group of her servants back to Greasley Castle and trying to force her to declare publicly that they had consummated the marriage. According to her father's priest, Thomas Waus, he showed her a room fitted with manacles where she would be detained if she did not drop the case and make the desired statement: "...Quicquid vos dicitis ego volo fateri vobiscum et in omnibus concordare." Sir Nicholas was probably horrified at the thought of having to undergo a physical examination by a committee of 'honestum matronae' - 'honest matrons'! Eventually Sir Nicholas calmed down and as brute force didn't seem to solve the problem, he decided to work within the law and determinedly pursued the support of the Apostolic See which is why he was in Avignon when he died." Doug May have come from the article you cited.