Dear Newsgroup ~ This is getting stranger and stranger. Complete Peerage states that Sir John de Saint John returned from being held a prisoner in France in 1297, whereas Dictionary of National Biography states he returned to England in 1299. Seventh Report of the Deputy Keeper (1846): 251 includes the following record dated 1298: “1863. Letters Patent from the Abbot and Convent of St. Peter’s, Gloucester — Relative to giving hostages for the delivery of John de Saint John, detained in the prison of the King of France. Gloucester, 27th May, 1298.”)." The above record may be viewed at the following weblink: https://books.google.com/books?id=qDxKAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA251 If I understand the nature of this record, it seems that John de Saint John was released from prison in France about 27 May 1298, upon giving hostages for payment of his ransom. If 1298 was the correct date of his release, this might explain why Sir John de Saint John wasn't at the Battle of Falkirk in Scotland two months later in July 1298. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Dear Newsgroup ~ The 1298 record I cited earlier withstanding, it appears that Sir John de Saint John was back in England by 7 July 1297. So Complete Peerage has the correct date of his return to England, namely 1297. Palgrave, Parliamentary Writs & Writs of Military Summons 1 (1827): 820 shows that John de Saint John, of Basing, was summoned to perform military service in parts beyond the sea on 7 July 1297. Likewise he was summoned to a military council at Rochester in Sept. 1297, and for military service in Flanders in Dec. 1297. The above source may be viewed at the following weblink: https://books.google.com/books?id=JKqJOnq9anQC&pg=PA820 As for the 1298 item I cited earlier, I believe that the Abbot and Convent of St. Peter’s, Gloucester was being levied an assessment for the ransom of Sir John de Saint John. A similar item is recorded in Macray, Chronicon Abbatiæ Rameseiensis (Rolls Ser.) (1886): xlviii, 388. The editor Mr. Macray says that item should date to 1297 or 1298. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

If you take the time to look up the references to these entries you will find that it is not specified whether the elder or junior John de St John is meant. The writs can only have been addressed to the younger John. John de St John would only have been released once the ransom was paid. When that occurred has not been shown by the records you have produced. R On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 12:32:59 PM UTC+12, Douglas Richardson wrote: > Dear Newsgroup ~ > > The 1298 record I cited earlier withstanding, it appears that Sir John de Saint John was back in England by 7 July 1297. So Complete Peerage has the correct date of his return to England, namely 1297. > > Palgrave, Parliamentary Writs & Writs of Military Summons 1 (1827): 820 shows that John de Saint John, of Basing, was summoned to perform military service in parts beyond the sea on 7 July 1297. Likewise he was summoned to a military council at Rochester in Sept. 1297, and for military service in Flanders in Dec. 1297. > > The above source may be viewed at the following weblink: > > https://books.google.com/books?id=JKqJOnq9anQC&pg=PA820 > > As for the 1298 item I cited earlier, I believe that the Abbot and Convent of St. Peter’s, Gloucester was being levied an assessment for the ransom of Sir John de Saint John. A similar item is recorded in Macray, Chronicon Abbatiæ Rameseiensis (Rolls Ser.) (1886): xlviii, 388. The editor Mr. Macray says that item should date to 1297 or 1298. > > Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah