Perhaps they are also 4th cousins, once removed, by this relationship. DSH -------------------------------------------------------- MATILDA 'The Empress' is the 4th cousin once removed * of Geoffrey V Comte d'Anjou, Touraine et Maine Common Ancestor * Geoffroy I 'Grisegonelle' d'Anjou Seneschal de France (0950-0987) * Adelais de Vermandois (0950-Between 0975/0978) | ---------------------------------------- | | | | * Foulques III 'Nerra' Comte d'Anjou Conan I 'le Tort' de Bretagne Duc de Bretagne (Abt 0970-1040) ( -0992) Hildegarde de Lorraine * Ermengarde d' Anjou (Between 0964/0974-1046) | | | | Geoffrey II 'Ferreol' de Gatinais Comte de Gastinois Richard II 'le Bon' 4th Duke of Normandy (Abt 1000-1046) (Abt 0959-1026) * Ermengarde d'Anjou * Judith de Bretagne (Abt 1018-1076) (0982-1017) | | | | * Foulques IV 'le Rechin' Comte d'Anjou * Robert II 'le Diable' 6th Duke of Normandy (1043-1109) (Abt 1008-1035) Bertrade de Montfort Harlette de Falaise Officier du Palais (Abt 1060-1117) (Abt 1003-Abt 1050) | | | | * Foulques V 'le Jeune' Comte d'Anjou * WILLIAM I 'The Conqueror' King of England (1092-1144) (1027-1087) Ermengarde du Maine Comtesse and Heiress of Maine Matilda of Flanders (Abt 1096-1126) (Abt 1032-1083) | | | | * Geoffrey V Comte d'Anjou, Touraine et Maine * HENRY I 'Beauclerc' King of England (1113-1151) (Abt 1068-1135) Matilda (Edith) of Scotland (1079/1080-1118) | | * MATILDA 'The Empress' (1102-1167) "A vaincre sans peril, on triomphe sans gloire." -- Pierre Corneille [1606-1684] "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." Martin Luther King, Jr. "Stewart Baldwin via" wrote in message news:mailman.0.1465752854.18605.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com... On 6/12/2016 8:44 AM, kerica via wrote: > On Tuesday, 31 May 2016 08:32:04 UTC+1, Peter Stewart wrote: >> Anyone reading the article by Andrew MacEwan that was cited in the thread >> 'Re: Christine, natural daughter of King William the Lion of Scotland ?' >> will find this on p. 19: >> >> 'Matilda's first marriage to Henry V, which did not require a >> dispensation, was in marked contrast to her second, to Geoffrey le Bel, >> count of Anjou, which did, as Chibnall shows in her biography of the >> Empress: "Whatever her personal wishes she finally acquiesced in her >> duty. In May 1127 she was escorted to Rouen by her brother Robert of >> Gloucester and Brian fitz Count for formal betrothal to Geoffrey of >> Anjou. Bishop Roger of Salisbury later complained that only they and >> John, bishop of Lisieux, were consulted about the marriage." ... Only >> later in the book does Chibnall refer to the dispensation, "She had >> married into the house of Anjou, but she had also married a kinsman so >> close that papal dispensation had been necessary for the marriage to be >> valid." [para] Neither Hollister in his *Henry I* nor Warren in his >> *Henry II* mentioned the dispensation, and Chibnall neglected to cite her >> source. Does any reader know its terms?' >> >> I'm not sure what MacEwan meant by 'Chibnall shows', since clearly he did >> not have proof from her work, but in any event there was no papal >> dispensation. > Sorry if this is obvious to everyone, but how was Matilda related to > Geoffrey of Anjou? I assume these historians thought she was, and so > needed > papal dispensation. If there wasnt dispensation given, maybe its cos > they wernt closely related? The closest relationship I found was that they were fourth cousins once removed, as follows: 1. Richard I of Normandy, d. 996. 2. Robert, d. 1037, archbishop of Rouen and count of Evreux. 3. Richard, d. 1067, count of Evreux. 4. Agnes d'Evreux, m. Simon I de Montfort, d. ca. 1087. 5. Bertrade de Montfort, d. after 1115, m. Foulques IV, d. 1109, count of Anjou. 6. Foulques V, d. 1143, count of Anjou, king of Jerusalem. 7. Geoffroy V, d. 1151, count of Anjou, duke of Normandy. 1. Richard I of Normandy, d. 996. 2. Richard II, d. 1026, duke of Normandy. 3. Robert I, d. 1035, duke of Normandy. 4. William the Conqueror, d. 1087, duke of Normandy and king of England. 5. Henry I, d. 1135, king of England. 6. Matilda of England, d. 1167. There were other more distant relationships. For example, they were also fifth cousins through a common descent from Foulques II, count of Anjou. The identities of all of their great-grandparents are known, and they could not have been third cousins or closer. A closer relationship than the one shown above seems unlikely, although not impossible, given a couple of gaps in their known ancestry. See the ancestor table of their son Henry II at http://home.earthlink.net/~henryproject/hproject/prov/at.htm Stewart Baldwin