On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 5:13:10 AM UTC-7, joe...@gmail.com wrote: > And here we are. The identity of the families of the wives of the William > de Spines and Guy de Spine has no evidence whatsoever other than the word > of Mr. Throckmorton, who has been clearly shown to be very unreliable. True, yet he does cite his sources: Dugdale and Coughton Records. The former gives no information on the wives of these men. As to the latter, these are the unpublished deeds and other documents of Coughton manor, and it is unclear if the details he provides (in footnotes on a chart) represent everything he was going on. For the Durvassal connection, it looks like William Spyne was serving as paper-plaintiff in a fine resettling Spernore on William Durvassal and his mother (or step-mother) Sibyl. I am not sure why this implies a relationship, but it is notable that Throckmorton shows this woman married to William de Sutton, and I see no mention of him elsewhere that explains his inclusion, so it appears there is more to these Coughton Records than is being detailed in the footnotes. For the Spine/Bruley connection, he seems to be depending on some ambiguous grants of rents, but again it is hard to tell. > How exciting. We can throw away these (probably false) identities, and > start with a clean slate to identify the proper individuals. > I guess what I am saying is that the participants here have spent all of 5 days looking for proof, perhaps insufficient time to draw definitive conclusions given the vague manner in which the evidence is presented. However, that doesn't preclude a continued search for evidence, wherever it leads. taf

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 10:20:54 AM UTC-4, taf wrote: > I guess what I am saying is that the participants here have spent all of 5 days looking for proof, perhaps insufficient time to draw definitive conclusions given the vague manner in which the evidence is presented. However, that doesn't preclude a continued search for evidence, wherever it leads. Agreed. My point was merely that if I were developing a proof or publishing a book, I would not draw anything even close to a solid line to the names of these wives. If Mr. Throckmorton had access to rather inaccessible documents, that is no help to me or anyone really unless he describes the key contents of those documents instead of just his conclusions drawn from them. It may be the case that Gary Boyd Roberts has seen these documents, but I doubt it. --Joe C