This is another step forward in using DNA testing in order to verify or refute lines of royal descent. I'm a bit confused, though, as to the details. Is Archie Shaw Stewart a male-line yDNA descendant of King Robert III Stewart of Scotland? Are there any yDNA descendants of King Robert III outside of those descended from the illegitimate sons of Charles II and James II? Or, does the genetic marker apply to any descendant - thru male lines or female lines - of Robert III? Cheers, -------Brad **************************************************** http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/news/genetic-marker-reveals-descendants-medieval-king Genetic marker reveals descendants of medieval king By Editor, 27 May 2016 - 11:47am A DNA study has uncovered a genetic marker that will help researchers confirm if they are descended from a medieval Scottish king. A DNA study led by the University of Strathclyde has uncovered a genetic marker that will help researchers confirm if they are descended from King Robert III, who ruled Scotland from 1390 to 1406. Scottish businessman Archie Shaw Stewart, who offered a sample of his DNA as part of the study, was delighted to have his family’s research confirmed. “It’s wonderful to be able to discriminate with a high level of confidence between some branches of families by the ability to trace genetic mutations,” he explained. “My great uncle, Patrick Shaw Stewart, produced an extensive family tree more than 100 years ago, extending back to Robert III. He would be very satisfied to see this part of it verified by new technology.” The discovery has been made as part of the Bannockburn Family History Project, which explores genetic connections between people living today and their ancestors who fought in the Battle. It is run by the Genealogical Studies Postgraduate Programme at Strathclyde’s Centre for Lifelong Learning. Graham Holton, Principal Tutor with the programme, said: “This is a fascinating discovery of a distinct marker for descendants of Robert III. “The marker is not found in descendants of the king’s brothers, showing that a mutation in the DNA occurred in either Robert III himself or one of his descendants. It is not yet known in which generation this took place, but we are delighted to have been able to confirm Archie Shaw Stewart’s place in medieval royal lineage, and acknowledge his contribution to furthering research into the branches of the Stewarts.”

On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 8:00:25 AM UTC-7, Brad Verity wrote: > This is another step forward in using DNA testing in order to verify or > refute lines of royal descent. I'm a bit confused, though, as to the > details. Is Archie Shaw Stewart a male-line yDNA descendant of King Robert > III Stewart of Scotland? Archie claims to be. > Are there any yDNA descendants of King Robert III outside of those > descended from the illegitimate sons of Charles II and James II? The Charles and James were just the last of a long line of Stewart kings populating the countryside with bastards. There are also claimed descents from younger legitimate sons of some of the kings, but I have never looked at these families to know if these lines are authentic or not. > Or, does the genetic marker apply to any descendant - thru male lines or > female lines - of Robert III? The marker is specific to male lines. However, maybe not all male lines. All we know (or all the story tells us, assuming it is true) is that Archie descends from Robert and that Archie has a difference in his Y-chromosome that is not shared by Stewart male-line descendants who branched earlier. It is an monstrous overstatement to call this a marker of descent from Robert III. The mutation could have happened in any generation between Robert and Archie - it may have first arisen in Archie himself. Assuming the facts stated are true (that Archie descends from Robert, that Archie has a mutation not shared by descendants of Robert's brothers), then anyone who has it must share the same line as Archie and descend from Robert, but that doesn't mean that all descendants of Robert must have it. Any branch that split off before the mutation happened would still have the 'ancestral' Stewart subtype, even though they also descends from Robert. Overblown claims like this are why most scientists despise the 'science-by-press-release' model (unless they are the ones getting the publicity). taf

Archie Shaw Stewart mentioned his great-uncle Patrick Shaw Stewart, who was apparently the genealogist who traced the Robert III connection. Would this be the "Patrick Houston Shaw-Stewart," born 1888, found on page 628 of _Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal_ "Anne of Exeter" volume? https://books.google.com/books?id=cVJmAAAAMAAJ&q=%22patrick+houston+shaw-stewart%22&dq=%22patrick+houston+shaw-stewart%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixmdqg1ozNAhUCQCYKHSQbBdYQ6AEILTAD If so, his parents were Major-General John Heron-Maxwell Shaw-Stewart and Mary Catherine Bedingfield Collyer. I suppose it would be rather embarrassing if the researches of Patrick Shaw Stewart turned out to be wrong.

On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 1:28:53 PM UTC-7, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote: > Archie Shaw Stewart mentioned his great-uncle Patrick Shaw Stewart, who was apparently the genealogist who traced the Robert III connection. > > Would this be the "Patrick Houston Shaw-Stewart," born 1888, found on page 628 of _Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal_ "Anne of Exeter" volume? > > https://books.google.com/books?id=cVJmAAAAMAAJ&q=%22patrick+houston+shaw-stewart%22&dq=%22patrick+houston+shaw-stewart%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixmdqg1ozNAhUCQCYKHSQbBdYQ6AEILTAD > > If so, his parents were Major-General John Heron-Maxwell Shaw-Stewart and Mary Catherine Bedingfield Collyer. > > I suppose it would be rather embarrassing if the researches of Patrick Shaw Stewart turned out to be wrong. The Shaw-Stewart family is covered in BP, through the final printed edition of 2003. The account there matches what John Brandon has located in Ruvigny's Anne of Exeter volume and also includes Archibald Shaw-Stewart (b. 21 Nov 1953) - presumably the "Archie" mentioned in this thread. His great-uncle is the poet Patrick Houston Shaw-Stewart, for whom see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Shaw-Stewart

On 6/3/2016 10:00 AM, Brad Verity via wrote: > This is another step forward in using DNA testing in order to verify or refute lines of royal descent. I'm a bit confused, though, as to the details. Is Archie Shaw Stewart a male-line yDNA descendant of King Robert III Stewart of Scotland? Are there any yDNA descendants of King Robert III outside of those descended from the illegitimate sons of Charles II and James II? Or, does the genetic marker apply to any descendant - thru male lines or female lines - of Robert III? > > Cheers, -------Brad > > **************************************************** > http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/news/genetic-marker-reveals-descendants-medieval-king That website gives the following link which further explains the situation: http://www.strathgenealogy.org.uk/projects/bannockburn-genetic-genealogy-project/ The data came from a Y chromosome test, and therefore only applies to the direct male line. Briefly, they have found a marker (called ZZ52) in a Big Y test which is possessed by a documented descendant of Robert III, but not by documented descendants of a brother of Robert III. The likely conclusion (which should be verified by testing more documented Stewart descendants) is that either Robert III or (more likely) one of his male-line descendants was the first of the line to have this mutation, and then passed it on to his direct male-line descendants. Testing of more documented male-line descendants is required to determine the generation at which the mutation occurred. Stewart Baldwin

Thank you to all who replied for the great information! Cheers, ------Brad