Hello Jeanie, I know nothing on the de Say family but "de veteri feffamento" is an comprehension. See: https://books.google.at/books?id=YqFWcZvE9H8C&pg=PA186&lpg=PA186&dq=feffamento&source=bl&ots=Pc5PS89qN6&sig=lbb2mQii3G-mJxK4sD-cckroD6k&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi76Z7B9tzNAhXQ0RoKHYYFA2AQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=feffamento&f=false "de veteri" says nothing with regards to the person William de Say. An avunculus is usually the proper Latin word for an uncle on the mothers side, so I guess that the avunculus could be the j militem de Witehurst. The "William filius" could perhaps refer to be the son of the previously named knight (not mentioned by you). Like I said before I know nothing on the de Say family but most times it is better to write more down then to try to deduce from less. Hans Vogels Op zaterdag 2 juli 2016 23:33:24 UTC+2 schreef Jeanie Roberts via: > In Volume 1 page 373, is the Carta of William de Say. It begins with: > > Isti sunt milites William de Say de veteri feffamento: my attempt to > translate: (these are the knights of William de Say of the old > feffamento). > This is followed by a list of knights. > On the following page it says: > De noviter feodatis de domnio meo: (The new feodatis of my lord) > The first name is: > Willelmus de Say avunculus meus j militem de Witehurst: ( William de Say, > my uncle, one knight's fee ) > other knights names then > Willelmus filius, quintam parem militis in Kembolton. ( William son 1/5 > knights fee Kimbolton). > > The date is 1166. In Medieval Lands, William de Say of Kimbolton was the > s/o William de Say and Beatrix de Mandeville. Does the first part of the > Carta refer to the elder William who according to Medieval Lands died about > 1155? Who is being referred to as My Lord in the beginning of the second > part. And who is calling William de Say my uncle? Does the William de Say > of the Carta have an Uncle named William and a son named William? Or do I > have this completely wrong. > > Hoping someone is bored this Saturday morning and can help. > > Jeanie