Ahem! Titles are accepted in Republican countries. Some Republics have even given hereditary titles to its citizens. A Republic, grosso modo, is the negation of an absolute monarch. hereditary titles, for instance, have not been abolished in France, nor in Germany or Austria, they just do not have any privileges, but the State does have a specific department that regulates them and ensures they are not mis-used or mis-appropriated. Titles of Knighthood abound in modern Republics. Peter In a message dated 10/05/2016 22:06:38 GMT Daylight Time, gen-medieval@rootsweb.com writes: Rupert Murdoch is an American citizen. Even as an Australian (which he ceased to be on becoming an American in 1985), he was not Sir Rupert. He is a Companion of the Order of Australia, and a papal knight, but that does not confer the accolade. It would be absurd for him to use such a title given that he supports the republican movement in Australia, and elsewhere. Richard On 10/05/2016, ravinmaven2001 via <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com> wrote: > It seems possible there is a royal descent for Sir Rupert Murdoch, the > billionaire businessman. > > I have used Reitwiesner and Wood's tracing of his ancestry back to ancestor > #116, Robert Sherson, "b. 1736/7, buried 13 Jan 1821 at Fetcham, Surrey aged > 84, apothecary, doctor of medicine and botanist. Will dated 2 Feb 1819, > proved with 3 codicils at London 22 Mar 1821." The next entry is for his > wife, Mary ___, and mentions the location of "Bridge House, Fetcham, > Surrey." > > http://www.wargs.com/other/murdoch.html > > These details given for Robert Sherson and his wife Mary tie in nicely to a > big pedigree chart in Whitaker's _An History of the Original Parish of > Whalley_, where a footnote to the chart shows Alexander Sherson, husband of > Bridget Nowell, serving as "Town Clerk of Lancaster, died Nov. 21, 1737, > leaving a numerous issue. His son Robert Sherson, M.D., late of Great > Ormond Street, now (1809) of Bridge House, Surrey, has also a numerous > progeny." As this statement was made in the lifetime of Robert Sherson (d. > 1821) of Bridge House, Fetcham, Surrey, doctor of medicine, I see no real > reason to doubt its accuracy (though please inform me if this connection is > wrong). > > https://books.google.com /books?id=EO1EAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA264&dq=%22son+robert+sherson%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi0m7Cr-8_MAhUE2SYKHZHsD1gQ6AEIHTAA#v=on epage&q=%22son%20robert%20sherson%22&f=false > > Bridget Nowell, shown by Whitaker to be mother of Robert Sherson, M.D., was > a daughter of Roger Nowell, Esq., of Whalley, by his wife, Rebecca, relict > of Cuthbert Wade (possibly born Rebecca Heber, first cousin to her own 2nd > husband). This seems to lead to at least one royal descent from King Edward > III, and probably more (the Heber lines should be checked in particular). > > 1. Edward III, King of England = Philippa of Hainault > > 2. John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster = (3) with legitimated issue, Katherine > (Roet) Swynford > > 3. Joan Beaufort = Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmoreland > > 4. Richard Neville, 1st Earl of Salisbury = Alice Montagu > > 5. Eleanor Neville = Thomas Stanley, 1st Earl of Derby > > 6. Edward Stanley, Lord Monteagle = Elizabeth Harington & Anne Vaughan > > 7. (? possibly illegitimate) Elizabeth Stanley = Sir Thomas Langton > > 8. Joan Langton = John Fleetwood > > 9. Elizabeth Fleetwood = Roger Nowell > > 10. Roger Nowell = Dorothy Holt > > 11. Alexander Nowell = Eleanor Heber > > 12. Roger Nowell = Rebecca (? Heber), widow of Cuthbert Wade > > 13. Bridget Nowell = Alexander Sherson > > 14. Robert Sherson = Mary____ > > 15. Robert Sherson = Catherine Taylor > > 16. Caroline Jemima Sherson = Frederick Henry Alexander Forth > > 17. Robert de Lancey Forth = Anne Thomson Ware > > 18. Marie Grace de Lancey Forth = Rupert Greene > > 19. Elisabeth Joy Greene = Sir Keith Arthur Murdoch > > 20. Sir (Keith) Rupert Murdoch > > > The H.O.P. biography of Sir Thomas Langton of Newton confirms his marriage > to a daughter, perhaps illegit., of Edward, Lord Monteagle. > > http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/langton-sir-thomas-149697-1569 > > Sir Thomas Langton had another wife who should be ruled out as the mother of > Joan Langton, who married John Fleetwood. > > The _Visitation of Cumberland_ shows the marriage of Joan, daughter of Sir > Thomas and Elizabeth (Stanley) Langton, to John Fleetwood. > > https://books.google.com/books?id=4nO5MJva0IYC&pg=PA32&dq=%22thomas+langton%22+newton&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_q5mqkc7MAhUFxSYKHZSKB_wQ6AEIHTAA#v=onep age&q=%22thomas%20langton%22%20newton&f=false > > _Documents Relating to the Priory of Penwortham_ deals with the Fleetwood > and Nowell connections in detail, though again we should rule out John > Fleetwood's other wife, Catherine Christmas, as ancestral. > > https://books.google.com/books?id=MmJVAAAAcAAJ&pg=PR56&dq=%22married+roger+nowell+of+read%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiunvC4_c_MAhUB3yYKHWsCBHAQ6AEIMzAE #v=onepage&q=%22married%20roger%20nowell%20of%20read%22&f=false > > I imagine there are in fact several royal descents, as the wife of > generation 15, Robert Sherson, Jr., appears to have been a granddaughter of > Thomas Forbes, who was the son of Arthur Forbes Maitland of Pitrichie. > > https://books.google.com/books?id=uZlNAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA454&dq=sherson+nowell+fetcham&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiw6cmC-s_MAhUK7yYKHRDTDn0Q6AEIHTAA#v=onepage& q=sherson%20nowell%20fetcham&f=false > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Not the accolade of knighthood in the U.S. republic of which Mr Murdoch is a citizen, nor, I expect, in any republic that would be established in Australia the country of his former citizenship. On 11/05/2016, PDeloriol@aol.com <PDeloriol@aol.com> wrote: > Ahem! Titles are accepted in Republican countries. Some Republics have even > > given hereditary titles to its citizens. A Republic, grosso modo, is the > negation of an absolute monarch. hereditary titles, for instance, have not > been abolished in France, nor in Germany or Austria, they just do not have > > any privileges, but the State does have a specific department that > regulates them and ensures they are not mis-used or mis-appropriated. > Titles of > Knighthood abound in modern Republics. > Peter > > > In a message dated 10/05/2016 22:06:38 GMT Daylight Time, > gen-medieval@rootsweb.com writes: > > Rupert Murdoch is an American citizen. Even as an Australian (which he > ceased to be on becoming an American in 1985), he was not Sir Rupert. > He is a Companion of the Order of Australia, and a papal knight, but > that does not confer the accolade. It would be absurd for him to use > such a title given that he supports the republican movement in > Australia, and elsewhere. > > Richard > > On 10/05/2016, ravinmaven2001 via <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> It seems possible there is a royal descent for Sir Rupert Murdoch, the >> billionaire businessman. >> >> I have used Reitwiesner and Wood's tracing of his ancestry back to > ancestor >> #116, Robert Sherson, "b. 1736/7, buried 13 Jan 1821 at Fetcham, Surrey > aged >> 84, apothecary, doctor of medicine and botanist. Will dated 2 Feb 1819, >> proved with 3 codicils at London 22 Mar 1821." The next entry is for >> his >> wife, Mary ___, and mentions the location of "Bridge House, Fetcham, >> Surrey." >> >> http://www.wargs.com/other/murdoch.html >> >> These details given for Robert Sherson and his wife Mary tie in nicely > to a >> big pedigree chart in Whitaker's _An History of the Original Parish of >> Whalley_, where a footnote to the chart shows Alexander Sherson, husband >> > of >> Bridget Nowell, serving as "Town Clerk of Lancaster, died Nov. 21, >> 1737, >> leaving a numerous issue. His son Robert Sherson, M.D., late of Great >> Ormond Street, now (1809) of Bridge House, Surrey, has also a numerous >> progeny." As this statement was made in the lifetime of Robert Sherson > (d. >> 1821) of Bridge House, Fetcham, Surrey, doctor of medicine, I see no >> real >> reason to doubt its accuracy (though please inform me if this connection >> > is >> wrong). >> >> https://books.google.com > /books?id=EO1EAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA264&dq=%22son+robert+sherson%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi0m7Cr-8_MAhUE2SYKHZHsD1gQ6AEIHTAA#v=on > epage&q=%22son%20robert%20sherson%22&f=false >> >> Bridget Nowell, shown by Whitaker to be mother of Robert Sherson, M.D., >> > was >> a daughter of Roger Nowell, Esq., of Whalley, by his wife, Rebecca, > relict >> of Cuthbert Wade (possibly born Rebecca Heber, first cousin to her own > 2nd >> husband). This seems to lead to at least one royal descent from King > Edward >> III, and probably more (the Heber lines should be checked in >> particular). >> >> 1. Edward III, King of England = Philippa of Hainault >> >> 2. John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster = (3) with legitimated issue, > Katherine >> (Roet) Swynford >> >> 3. Joan Beaufort = Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmoreland >> >> 4. Richard Neville, 1st Earl of Salisbury = Alice Montagu >> >> 5. Eleanor Neville = Thomas Stanley, 1st Earl of Derby >> >> 6. Edward Stanley, Lord Monteagle = Elizabeth Harington & Anne >> Vaughan >> >> 7. (? possibly illegitimate) Elizabeth Stanley = Sir Thomas Langton >> >> 8. Joan Langton = John Fleetwood >> >> 9. Elizabeth Fleetwood = Roger Nowell >> >> 10. Roger Nowell = Dorothy Holt >> >> 11. Alexander Nowell = Eleanor Heber >> >> 12. Roger Nowell = Rebecca (? Heber), widow of Cuthbert Wade >> >> 13. Bridget Nowell = Alexander Sherson >> >> 14. Robert Sherson = Mary____ >> >> 15. Robert Sherson = Catherine Taylor >> >> 16. Caroline Jemima Sherson = Frederick Henry Alexander Forth >> >> 17. Robert de Lancey Forth = Anne Thomson Ware >> >> 18. Marie Grace de Lancey Forth = Rupert Greene >> >> 19. Elisabeth Joy Greene = Sir Keith Arthur Murdoch >> >> 20. Sir (Keith) Rupert Murdoch >> >> >> The H.O.P. biography of Sir Thomas Langton of Newton confirms his > marriage >> to a daughter, perhaps illegit., of Edward, Lord Monteagle. >> >> > http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/langton-sir-thomas-149697-1569 >> >> Sir Thomas Langton had another wife who should be ruled out as the > mother of >> Joan Langton, who married John Fleetwood. >> >> The _Visitation of Cumberland_ shows the marriage of Joan, daughter of > Sir >> Thomas and Elizabeth (Stanley) Langton, to John Fleetwood. >> >> > https://books.google.com/books?id=4nO5MJva0IYC&pg=PA32&dq=%22thomas+langton%22+newton&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_q5mqkc7MAhUFxSYKHZSKB_wQ6AEIHTAA#v=onep > age&q=%22thomas%20langton%22%20newton&f=false >> >> _Documents Relating to the Priory of Penwortham_ deals with the > Fleetwood >> and Nowell connections in detail, though again we should rule out John >> Fleetwood's other wife, Catherine Christmas, as ancestral. >> >> > https://books.google.com/books?id=MmJVAAAAcAAJ&pg=PR56&dq=%22married+roger+nowell+of+read%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiunvC4_c_MAhUB3yYKHWsCBHAQ6AEIMzAE > #v=onepage&q=%22married%20roger%20nowell%20of%20read%22&f=false >> >> I imagine there are in fact several royal descents, as the wife of >> generation 15, Robert Sherson, Jr., appears to have been a granddaughter >> > of >> Thomas Forbes, who was the son of Arthur Forbes Maitland of Pitrichie. >> >> > https://books.google.com/books?id=uZlNAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA454&dq=sherson+nowell+fetcham&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiw6cmC-s_MAhUK7yYKHRDTDn0Q6AEIHTAA#v=onepage& > q=sherson%20nowell%20fetcham&f=false >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > >
On 11/05/2016 11:30 PM, PDeloriol via wrote: > Ahem! Titles are accepted in Republican countries. Some Republics have even > given hereditary titles to its citizens. A Republic, grosso modo, is the > negation of an absolute monarch. hereditary titles, for instance, have not > been abolished in France, nor in Germany or Austria, they just do not have > any privileges, but the State does have a specific department that > regulates them and ensures they are not mis-used or mis-appropriated. Titles of > Knighthood abound in modern Republics. > In Germany hereditary titles are not officially recognised - some people have resorted to changing their names to incorporate obsolete titles so they can go on advertising their aristocratic brand. Vulgarity is not the exclusive preserve of the common. You are carefully missing the point about Rupert Murdoch. He would be most unlikely to accept a title of honour (not that he would be offered a knighthood, much less the Garter) from a sovereign whose hereditary role as fount of honour he does not respect. Peter Stewart