Dear Rosie, I very much appreciate this information. My records indicate that Odo Dammartin received a moiety of the manor of Lagham (in Walkhamsted, Surrey) in marriage with the daughter of Reginald de Lucy and sister of Richard de Lucy. This Richard then split the manor between Dammartin and the St. Johns. While this property lies next to Burstowe, Horley and Horne and records imply that an Edward St. John of Lagham was the father of Elizabeth who married Thomas Slyfield, I am beginning to be convinced that Elizabeth was the daughter of Edward St. John by Alice in the Petworth St. John line. The St. Johns of Lagham clearly are involved with the families in this area, on the death of John St. John in 1349, Katherine Sai, his wife, and his son Roger sold their Surrey properties to Nicholas Louvaine, as did my Richard de Burstowe. John and Katherine had several children including William and Nicholas. The mother of this John St. John was Margery Gyse who married secondly, Sir John de Ifield. Pat On May 30, 2016, at 5:26 PM, rbevan via wrote: > Dear Mr Richardson > > Unfortunately you have a case of mistaken identity here and confused John de St John of Basing (d.1302) for John de St John of Lagham (d.1316). > > John de St John of Lagham was summoned to serve against the Scots in 1296 at a time when John de St John of Basing was Seneschal of Gascony (1295-97), captured by the French at Bellegarde in 1297 and not released until 1299. The latter’s son of the same name was serving in Flanders in 1297 and not summoned to serve against the Scots until 1299. > > In 1297 John de St John of Lagham wrote a letter from “Langham” to Ralph de Manton, a senior official of the King and paymaster of the English troops, requesting that he act on his behalf on the king’s business at a meeting in Roxburgh in the Scottish Borders because he was ill. In the letter he referred to John de Segrave as his cousin, “monsieur Johan de Segrave notre cosin”. > > John de St John of Lagham was second cousin of John de Segrave by common descent from the Despenser family. They also shared a common descent from Richard de Lucy, the justiciar > > For further details see Rosie Bevan & Peter G M Dale, ‘Reginald de Lucy, son of Richard de Lucy, King’s Justiciar: New Perspectives.’ Foundations (2016) 8: 53-72. > > Abstract > In the authors’ previous article on Richard de Lucy, chief Justiciar of Henry II, and his newly discovered daughter, Rose, it was stated that we were left with the implication that there may be other unrecognised children - in particular, Reginald de Lucy, who seemed to be clearly related to Richard. A recent find from manuscripts in the British Library has indeed confirmed Reginald as brother of Geoffrey de Lucy and thus son of Richard de Lucy. This article examines the evidence and discusses the implications for the wider family network, including that of Reginald’s little known daughter, Cecily, who the authors suggest was wife of Walter de Cherlecote, (progenitor of the Lucys of Charlecote), Roger de St John and Richard Mallore. > > Cheers > Rosie > > > > On Sunday, May 29, 2016 at 10:40:30 AM UTC+12, Douglas Richardson wrote: > > >> Evidence of the Segrave-Lucy-Cantelowe connection is provided by the fact that Sir John de Saint John (died 1302), of Basing, Hampshire, a known Cantelowe descendant, referred to Sir John de Segrave (died 1325), 2nd Lord Segrave, as his cousin {"notre cosin"] in a letter dated 1298 [Reference: Joseph Stevenson, Documents illustrative of the History of Scotland 2 (1870): 305-306]. A transcript of this letter may be viewed at the following weblink: >> >> http://books.google.com/books?id=O1oJAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:0HOj-SJq3-NMv7f6Jy#PPA305,M1 >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message