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    1. Re: Possible Edward I descent for the Clarksons?
    2. ravinmaven2001 via
    3. The will of Thomas Thurland, dated 1471, mentions "To John Rochfort, son of Johane my daughter, late the wyff of Herry Rochford squire, xx li. To Johane the doughtir of the said Johane xx li." https://books.google.com/books?id=rzA8AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA186&dq=%22to+johane+the+doughtir+of+the+said%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjWuufjicbMAhWMQCYKHdItCpkQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=%22to%20johane%20the%20doughtir%20of%20the%20said%22&f=false Therefore, it looks like Maddison's _Lincolnshire Pedigrees_ is correct in assigning Henry Rochford (who married, second, Elizabeth Scrope) a first wife, Joan ___. https://books.google.com/books?id=IPcMAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA829&dq=%22henry+rochford%22+stoke+scrope&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjxg4SGisbMAhWF5yYKHXM1ASQQ6AEIIzAB#v=onepage&q=%22henry%20rochford%22%20stoke%20scrope&f=false So I think this allows us to know that Henry Rochford's first wife was Joan Thurland. And that Joan Rochford (who m. Henry Stanhope) was not the daughter of Elizabeth Scrope, but of Joan Thurland.

    05/06/2016 05:30:55
    1. Re: Possible Edward I descent for the Clarksons?
    2. ravinmaven2001 via
    3. Is the Dame Jane Thurland, widow of Thomas Thurland, this same Jane Neville (of Rolleston) shown in a pedigree as the wife of "Thomas Therland of Gamston"? https://books.google.com/books?id=fDBSgpgDmRIC&pg=PA154&dq=%22robert+willoughby%22+thurland&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiNm7SonMbMAhWBYyYKHcogA4MQ6AEIMTAE#v=onepage&q=%22robert%20willoughby%22%20thurland&f=false It looks like the Jane/ Joan Willoughby, sister of Sir Henry, was wife to a later Thurland and couldn't be ancestral to Stanhope and Skeffington. In another complication, I see that Dame Jane Thurland's will from 1477 (printed in a footnote to her husband's) apparently mentions no Rochfords, while mentioning her daughter "Joan Hunt." Did she have two daughters Joan? Or was she a second wife with children of her own, including this Joan Hunt? Or is Joan Hunt possibly only her goddaughter?

    05/06/2016 06:57:05
    1. Re: Possible Edward I descent for the Clarksons?
    2. Douglas Richardson via
    3. Dear John ~ You're quite correct. It appears that Henry Rochford's first wife, Joan (or Jane), was the daughter of Thomas Thurland, merchant, of Nottingham (died 1471) and his wife, Dame Joan (died 1479). It also appears that Joan (or Jane) Thurland was the mother of Henry Rochford's daughter, Joan (or Jane), who married Henry Stanhope, Esq. Elsewhere I find that Thomas Thurland and his wife, Dame Joan, were remembered in the 1491 will of Sir Gervase Clifton, Knt., of Clifton, Nottinghamshire. See Testamenta Eboracensia 4 (Surtees Soc. 53) (1869): 64-71 (will of Gervase Clifton, Knt.), which is available at the following weblink: https://books.google.com/books?id=YFo4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA64 I believe Sir Gervase Clifton, Knt. (died 1491) was the husband of Alice Neville, widow of Richard Thurland, Esq., which Richard was the son and heir apparent of Thomas Thurland, merchant, of Nottingham [died 1471], by his wife, Dame Joan (died 1479). Inasmuch as Thomas Thurland's wife, Joan, is styled "Dame Joan" in records after 1476, this infers that she must have had another husband who was a knight sometime in or before 1476. This could be an earlier husband, or a husband she married after Thomas Thurland's death in 1471. I suppose it was a later husband who was the knight, as Joan seems to have been the mother of Thomas Thurland's children. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

    05/06/2016 09:36:29