On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 2:51:06 PM UTC-7, P J Evans wrote: > On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 2:38:33 PM UTC-7, Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr. wrote: > > On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 2:01:09 PM UTC-7, taf wrote: > > > On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 1:19:27 PM UTC-7, Thomas Milton Tinney, Sr. wrote: > > > > > > > I agree that this discussion should discontinue, as well, because it all > > > > boils down to basic philosophical differences. [The proposal that one type > > > > of organism could descend from another type goes back to some of the first > > > > pre-Socratic Greek philosophers, such as Anaximander and Empedocles.] . . > > > > > > Ah, and finally, finally, we see the crux of the matter. DNA cannot be reliably used for genealogy, because DNA supports evolution that is antithetical to your philosophy. > > > > > > > TAF, is an exceedingly learned man, . . . He does not know, however, the > > > > totality of the field of research, . . . he tries to put up a smoke screen > > > > of his intellectual skills, which are prodigious, when I am only simply > > > > pointing out, some of the most obvious inconsistencies of what is promised > > > > vs. real time similar problems, which create in my mind a "mass of > > > > confusion" as to the viability of DNA use. > > > > > > Except these inconsistencies only exist due to your lack of familiarity with the underlying principles (both the physiological mechanisms and the testing). It is not 'putting up a smoke screen' to try to explain why the aspects you perceive to be a problem are not relevant to the application of DNA to genealogical testing. Further, you repeatedly overreach in suggesting that any problem with any aspect of our understanding of DNA invalidates all DNA-based results. This is no more valid than to suggest that the frequent indexing errors on Ancestry.com invalidate the images of primary documents found there. > > > > > > taf > > ---------------------------------- > > REPLY: > > TAF, you are HALF-way home. DNA does not support EITHER one. Yes, it does not support my philosophy, NOR does it support evolution. Conjectures offer no support at all, because the sample sizes and availability over time do not exist. From a Christian standpoint, many saints' bodies from Adam on down, have already been resurrected; from a secular standpoint, mass movements, like the Syrian migrations of today, Chinatowns and pockets of ethnic groups, do not make geographic maps realistic. It is all sad, comic DNA fantasy. And yes, TAF, I have been reading over time, thousands of professional and popular articles on the subject, Googled worldwide, etc. CONCLUSION. There is more scientific reliability in weather forecasting, than various comic DNA fantasy projections. > > What your particular sect of Christianity believes happens to dead bodies is not connected to genealogy or DNA, which are based on facts rather than faith. (It does raise questions about whether you even understand the difference between fact and belief.) ------------------ REPLY: This is not sect centric; it was linguistically motivated, coming from item by Johann Albrecht Bengel (24 June 1687 – 2 November 1752); i.e., Bengelius, Greek-language scholar; re: Greek New Testament and related commentaries. [His fame was such that almost 200 years later, Hermann Hesse has the hero of The Glass Bead Game discuss Bengel's writings.]. . . [Hermann Karl Hesse . . . (2 July 1877 – 9 August 1962) was a German-born Swiss poet, novelist, and painter. His best-known works include Steppenwolf, Siddhartha, and The Glass Bead Game, each of which explores an individual's search for authenticity, self-knowledge and spirituality. In 1946, he received the Nobel Prize in Literature.] ITEM: From BibleHub http://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/27-52.htm "Matthew 27:52. Τῶν κεκοιμημένων ἁγίων, of the saints that had slept) The name saints belongs equally to the living and the dead; yea, in the mention of the dead, the determining clause is added, “who had slept.” And these saints are reckoned such, not by human, but Divine Canon. Of the Saints, who had died either a long while before the birth of Christ, or not much after (see Gnomon on John 11:25), from all tribes no doubt. The ancients appear to have considered Job to have been one of these; for, at the end of his book, the LXX. and Theodotion add γέγραπται δὲ αὐτὸν πάλιν ἀναστήσεσθαι μεθʼ ὧν ὁ κύριος ἀνίστησιν, but it is written that he shall rise again with those whom the Lord raises." Thus, as I suggested, from Adam and Eve, to the time of Holy Messiah. Matthew wrote it as a fact, attested to by saints living in those ancient times. The belief system that they had was all from eye-witness testimony, as recorded. Which brings up a parallel item of interest specifically related to medieval genealogical resources. DNA May Reveal Origins of Medieval Manuscripts By Andrea Thompson | February 10, 2009 . . . Stinson's plan, which he recently presented at the annual meeting of the Bibliographical Society of America in New York, is to take DNA samples from manuscripts with known dates and establish a reference base to which samples of texts of unknown origin can be compared. He hopes to do this by pinning down the specific herds of animals each piece of parchment came from and comparing pieces for potential family relationships. If it works, it could make tracing the lineage of ancient books much easier. . . . http://www.livescience.com/3300-dna-reveal-origins-medieval-manuscripts.html Current: Mitochondrial DNA analysis of medieval sheep (Ovis aries) in central Italy reveals the predominance of haplogroup B already in the Middle Ages. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25917303 It is denialism to suggest to anyone, at this stage of DNA research, (that said information is practical, usable evidence, when every individual examined piece of evidence provided is incomplete and underrepresented); and, logically, it cannot be made to conform, without force of reputation, into other documented written resources, to obtain a solid, comparative conclusion. Do not be misled.