Dear Newsgroup ~ There is an interesting discussion of the capture of John de Saint John in France published in Wright, Chronicle of Pierre de Langtoft 2 (1868): 280-283, which source may be viewed at the following weblink: https://books.google.com/books?id=IFlNAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA280 Here are three more sources which concern the ransom and imprisonment of John de Saint John in France. If the first and second sources are to be trusted, the king was pressuring the ten wealthiest monasteries of England in 1298 to raise the ransom of John de Saint John in order to provide for his release. 1. Archaelogical Journal 67 (1910): 261 (“On 8th May, 1298, within six weeks of the fire, the abbot and convent of Westminster bound themselves by a bond to certain foreign merchants to pay £250 towards the ransom of John de Saint John, then a prisoner in France.”). 2. First Report of the Deputy Keeper (1840): 58 (“Roll dated 26 Edw. I [A.D. 1297–8] entitled ‘Litteræ obligatoriæ quorundum Abbatum factæ diversis mercatoribus super deliberatione Johannis de Sancto Johanne.'”). 3. Widmore, History of the Church of St. Peter, Westminster, commonly called Westminster Abbey (1751): 80-81 (“In the year 1298, the abbot and convent [of Westminster] gave bond for two hundred and fifty pounds toward the ransom of a noble person, John de Saint John, governor or general for the king in Aquitain, who, in endeavouring to relieve a castle besieged by the French, had been taken prisoner, upon whom the French had set an excessive sum, such as he himself had not the means to raise ... It was the king's recommending the matter to ten of the richest monasteries, that the house thus engaged toward the ransom of this nobleman : the like was also done by the abbies of Glastenbury, Peterborough, Evesham, and Saint Edmondbury, but refused by those of Ramsey, Abingdon, Waltham, St. Albans and Hyde.”). These records would appear to refute Santiuste, Hammer of the Scots: Edward I and the Scottish Wars of Independence (2015): 133, who alleges that John de Saint John returned to England in time to take part in the Falkirk campaign in 1298. There is no evidence that John de Saint John was present at that battle. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

On 2/06/2016 12:01 PM, Douglas Richardson via wrote: > Dear Newsgroup ~ > > There is an interesting discussion of the capture of John de Saint John in France published in Wright, Chronicle of Pierre de Langtoft 2 (1868): 280-283, which source may be viewed at the following weblink: > > https://books.google.com/books?id=IFlNAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA280 > > Here are three more sources which concern the ransom and imprisonment of John de Saint John in France. If the first and second sources are to be trusted, the king was pressuring the ten wealthiest monasteries of England in 1298 to raise the ransom of John de Saint John in order to provide for his release. > > 1. Archaelogical Journal 67 (1910): 261 (“On 8th May, 1298, within six weeks of the fire, the abbot and convent of Westminster bound themselves by a bond to certain foreign merchants to pay £250 towards the ransom of John de Saint John, then a prisoner in France.”). > > 2. First Report of the Deputy Keeper (1840): 58 (“Roll dated 26 Edw. I [A.D. 1297–8] entitled ‘Litteræ obligatoriæ quorundum Abbatum factæ diversis mercatoribus super deliberatione Johannis de Sancto Johanne.'”). > > 3. Widmore, History of the Church of St. Peter, Westminster, commonly called Westminster Abbey (1751): 80-81 (“In the year 1298, the abbot and convent [of Westminster] gave bond for two hundred and fifty pounds toward the ransom of a noble person, John de Saint John, governor or general for the king in Aquitain, who, in endeavouring to relieve a castle besieged by the French, had been taken prisoner, upon whom the French had set an excessive sum, such as he himself had not the means to raise ... It was the king's recommending the matter to ten of the richest monasteries, that the house thus engaged toward the ransom of this nobleman : the like was also done by the abbies of Glastenbury, Peterborough, Evesham, and Saint Edmondbury, but refused by those of Ramsey, Abingdon, Waltham, St. Albans and Hyde.”). > > These records would appear to refute Santiuste, Hammer of the Scots: Edward I and the Scottish Wars of Independence (2015): 133, who alleges that John de Saint John returned to England in time to take part in the Falkirk campaign in 1298. There is no evidence that John de Saint John was present at that battle. More to the point, there is evidence that he cannot have been at Falkirk in July 1298 - apart from the sources Rosie Bevan has given you, we know from Philippe IV's treasury accounts that a stipend was being paid for keeping St. John in custody at Corbeil and Paris in the summer of 1298. Do you ever bother to track down current secondary works on a subject of interest, and follow leads from these to primary sources, or do you actually prefer to rummage for the obsolete guff you keep quoting here at length? Peter Stewart